Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Gorsuch and concealed weapons and the 4th Amendment

ts obvious you have never read Terry, nor do you understand the term "totality of the situation"

Terry authorizes the stop and frisk, of individuals reasonably believed to be armed and dangerous. reasonable suspicion is a much lower legal standard. the fact that the officer saw the gun, satisfies the RS part of terry, when taken with the totality of the situation. ie, suspect began to become agitated when asked to step outside and speak with officers. the RS of a crime under commission is satisfied by NM statute stating it is illegal to possess a concealed deadly weapon.

again RS is different that having PC to arrest.

Yeah...What a concept! If the basic tenants of the constitution were followed(as is required by the friggin document) there would be no " need " for all these ridiculous albeit profitable laws like ccw, terry searches, gun laws, vehicle registration, hate crimes, progressive tax code....,on and on ad nauseam.

But, as I stated earlier, as long as we keep supporting them, we get what we reap.

Understanding does not have to result in agreement. I understand that it is a much lower standard, but still it has to be (or should be) more than just an LEO's assumption. The LEO still should be able to verbalize the crime that he thinks is being committed or is about to be committed. If the clerk had been carrying, and, brandishing, or threatening, or acting aggressively then I could understand the LEO actions. But if the clerk was just bending over to get the LEO a package of doughnuts when the CC was noticed, then that would, IMO, not be reasonable to assume a crime is about to be committed. How's that for understanding the totality of the situation.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FCO%2020131231054/U.S.%20v.%20RODRIGUEZ


read the above link

Here is something to think about. My longest friend is a Forest Ranger (which is an armed, LEO position here in NY). While patrolling State land, mostly by himself, without back-up being readily available, he very frequently comes across hunters, hikers, campers etc that are armed (both CC and OC). He doesn't disarm every person, or handcuff or assume that they are all criminals, or break out in a cold sweat or sheet himself. (Can you imagine such a thing in NY?) But some cops hear the word gun and will shoot a guy going for his wallet when asked to produce his driver's license, or instantly shoot some kid playing with a toy. Some people just don't have what it takes to be a cop. They're too nervous and jerky.

you're seriously trying to equate a forest ranger in NY with a city cop dispatched to a call for service of "armed men" in armed high crime area of Albuquerque New Mexico?

TRH . . . I'm assuming the cop was white and your uncle is/was a white man?

I'm ok with everything except the LEO disarming the clerk prior to finding out that he didn't have a permit and was a felon. If disarming a citizen for the police's safety is ok, then we should be allowed to disarm the police for our safety. Prior to learning the clerk did not have a permit and was a felon, there was, IMO, no reasonable suspicion that a crime had been committed, unless it's a crime to show a co-worker your gun in NM. Once it was ascertained that didn't have a permit, that's when he should have been when he was disarmed.

Yup, we had a Conservation Officer killed on duty this year. If a Cop is afraid of his job, he should do something else.

One KIA this year. Wow. That sucks, but it ain't NM.

There's a difference between being afraid, and being stupidly naive.

Read the link that has been provided, several times. Then, read Terry v Ohio.

Here's a story from when I was employed as a hazardous waste inspector. I had an inspection in a crime-ridden area of Newburgh (a murder rate higher than NYC). While inspecting this small company, the guy looking for some paperwork opened a desk drawer and inside I recognized a Ruger 10/22 that had the barrel and stock illegally cut down to pistol size. I pretended I didn't see it and later called the Newburgh PD to report the illegal gun. I was told, "In that part of the city, you would be crazy not to have a gun." Upon seeing that illegal gun, I didn't confiscate it, out of fear for my safety, or run out of the place screaming. Hell, that gun was probably the safest thing I encountered in that sheet hole. Many violations were cited.

I have no issue with a LEO disarming me during a peaceful encounter, so long as he doesn't do so aggressively.

Well, hurray. That has ... hmmm... exactly nothing to do with anything, and certainly not the 4A or the law. Read the link provided. Read Terry v Ohio.

Of course, you MAY have inadvertently stumbled upon a concept of "totality of circumstances" as it relates to a cop in NM dealing with a felon working in a low-end convenience store in a schithole part of town, but you would not catch on even if we drew you a picture.

congrats. that story has absoluteky no corrolation to the OP.

INFACT had you "confidcated it. you yourself would have committed multiple felonies

You called the cops, what an ass hole you are.

Dude, it was an original Ruger Charger ... but without the bipod (as usual).

"

to come confiscate the gun

he really is the Second Ammendments friend.

It has to do with encountering potentially dangerous situations and how one chooses to handle that situation. Just because a job has dangers doesn't mean another's rights should be infringed.

The rest of that story is that about 10 years after that encounter with the guy with the illegal gun in his desk, he was at his second home in Jamaica, lounging around his pool, when two guys walked up to him and shot him dead and walked away. The killers were never caught and it was assumed to be a mob hit.

http://www.recordonline.com/article/20100209/BIZ/2090334

ps. Regarding the 4th Amendment: I had places refuse me entry without having a search warrant. I didn't freak out over someone exercising their Constitutional Rights, I would just calmly inform them that they had that right but that I would seek a search warrant, come back with a Conservation Officer and any violations would be handled criminally rather than administratively. They would then always grant me access.

Was it your job to confiscate firearms, stop criminal activity, and arrest criminals? No? Then it has no bearing.

Jamaica is not the US. Again, irrelevant.

Read the link provided. Read Terry v Ohio.