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One of my favorite movies is "Breaker Morant." How well known, and thought of is he in Australia? Captdavid[u][/u]
"It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds.
If you are a hunter, and farther than that, get closer!
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AKA The P-Man If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
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Bryan Brown was also in the WWII movie 'Australia' opposite Nicole Kidman. He's a very good actor.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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If it weren't for the movie most people here wouldn't know about him.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Sitting in the DVD collection as we speak. Reminds me a lot of the movie Gallipoli w/Mel Gibson. Seems like the colonials were always getting crapped on.
"Shoot straight, Ya, Bastards !"
Whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.
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Lieutenant Henry Harboard (Harry) 'The Breaker' Morant was in fact an Englishman, hence likely why Australians don't care much for such history...on top of the fact that despite the Boer War being Australias first war as a nation( federation occurred in 1901 during the Boer war) it remains mostly a forgotten war by Australians. Prior to 1901 federation, the separate colonies independently supplied their own voluntary militia units for the Boer War. 1864, born Bridgewater Summerset, UK. 1883, arrived in Aus. 1899, signed up to 2nd Contingent, South Australian Mounted Rifles. Boer war service 1899-1902...his 1899 enlistment ended after 12 months where he return to UK..then returned to the Boer War under a commission. He had earned himself a reputation for shooting prisoners, looting and insubordination even before the incidences that he faced military trial for. Prior to enlisting he is remembered as a womaniser and frequent welsher on his debts, and of course a horse breaker. http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/breaker-morant-relics-found-on-rubbish-tip-20160422-gocn1a.html
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Boer War Australian Colonial Imperial forces prior to 1901
Colony of New South Wales:
New South Wales Lancers - Cavalry New South Wales Army Medical Corps - 'A' Squadron NSW Mounted Rifles -Mounte dinifantry New South Wales Mounted Infantry (later "E"Sqn) Mounted Infantry (+ 1 machine gun section) First Australian Horse -Cavalry 'A' Bty. New South Wales Artillery First New South Wales Mounted Rifles-Mounted Infantry New South Wales Citizens' Bushmen - Mounted Infantry New South Wales Imperial Bushmen - Mounted Infantry Second New South Wales Mounted Rifles - Mounted Infantry (+ 1 machine gun section) Third New South Wales Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry Third New South Wales Mounted Rifles Mounted Infantry (+ 1 machine gun section) Special Service Officers (NSW)
Colony of Queensland
1st Queensland Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry 2nd Queensland Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry Queensland Citizen Bushmen (later) 3rd Queensland Mounted Infantry / 2nd Bushmen Regimen -Mounted Infantry Queensland Imperial Bushmen - Mounted Infantry 5th Queensland Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry / Bicycle Infantry, arrived with 3 mounted squadrons/ 1 cyclist company 6th Queensland Imperial Bushmen - Mounted Infantry 7th Queensland Imperial Bushmen - Mounted Infantry, 7th Contingent was in fact drafts for 5th and 6th Contingents Special Service Officers (Queensland)
Colony of South Australia
1st South Australian Mounted Rifles - Mounted Infantry 2nd South Australian Mounted Rifles - Mounted Infantry South Australian Nurses South Australian Citizens' Bushmen -Mounted Infantry South Australian Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry 5th South Australian Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry Amalgamated with 6th SA Imperial Bushmen in May 1901. 6th South Australian Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry Amalgamated with 5th SA Imperial Bushmen in May 1901. Special Service Officers (South Australia)
Colony of Tasmania
Tasmanian Mounted Infantry - Mounted Infantry Tasmanian Citizen Bushmen Mounted Infantry. 1st Tasmanian Imperial Bushmen -Mounted Infantry 2nd Tasmanian Imperial Bushmen - Mounted Infantry Special Service Officers (Tasmania)
Colony of Victoria
1st Victorian Mounted Rifles -Mounted Infantry 2nd Victorian Mounted Rifles -Mounted Infantry Victorian Citizen Bushmen -Mounted Infantry Victorian Nurses Victorian Imperial Bushmen (Australian Imperial Regiment) -Mounted Infantry 5th Victorian Mounted Rifles -Mounted Infantry Recruits for Scottish Horse -Mounted Infantry Special Service Officers (Victoria)
Colony of Western Australia
1st Western Australian Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry 2nd Western Australian Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry Western Australian Citizen Bushmen' -Mounted Infantry Western Australian Nurses 4th Western Australian Mounted Infantry (Imperial Bushmen) -Mounted Infantry 5th Western Australian Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry 6th Western Australian Mounted Infantry -Mounted Infantry
Post Federation COMMONWEALTH of AUSTRALIA FORCES- Boer War.
1st Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry 2nd Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry Commonwealth Army Medical Corps recruited from NSW, QLD, SA, VIC, WA 3rd Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry did not see action 4th Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry 5 mounted rifle sqns (3 VIC, 1 SA, 1 WA); did not see action 5th Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry 4 mounted rifle sqns (all NSW); arrived after war ended 6th Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry 4 mounted rifle sqns (all VIC); arrived after war ended 7th Australian Commonwealth Horse -Mounted Infantry 4 mounted rifle sqns, (all QLD); arrived after war ended 8th Australian Commonwealth Horse - Mounted Infantry 4 mounted rifle sqns (2 SA, 1 WA, 1 TAS); arrived after war ended.
VCs awarded:
NSW Medical Corps- Neville Howse 1st Tasmanian Imperial Bushmen- Trooper John Hutton Bisdee, and Lieutenant Guy Wylly. 5th Victorian Mounted Rifles - Lt Leslie Maygar. 6th Western Australian Mounted Infantry - Lt frederick william Bell.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Yeah, he was just a murderous bastard. Didn't deserve being made famous by a movie. Says a lot about Australia that its two most legendary characters are Breaker Morant and Ned Kelly, both of them actually just thieving murderers to be honest.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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Yeah, he was just a murderous bastard. Didn't deserve being made famous by a movie. Says a lot about Australia that its two most legendary characters are Breaker Morant and Ned Kelly, both of them actually just thieving murderers to be honest. Morant is the most or 2nd most legendary Australian character?..where do you draw that conclusion from? and if it wasn't for the English having their constant hate and mistreatment of the Irish , Kelly might not have taken exception to it. If you bother to read up on your British empire Kiwi colonial history, you will find it was the most lawless violent white settlement in that part of the ocean under the British Empire.- It became so bad because: 1./ the unregulated transient nature of its white european occupants 2./ There was for a good time, no British marines or garrisons stationed there to keep the constant crime, violence, and decrepit behaviour in check. The rampant violence and lawlessness that took place there was far worse than what occurred under the martial law controlled British colony in Australia. It got so bad that the British were forced to send a commanded detachment of military force from the NSW colony in desperate attempt to try and get some sort of civil order in NZ. -At that time NZ wasn't really recognised as much, for it was merely part of the Colony of NSW.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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What about Peter Handcock? What about the Englishman who was pardoned for the same crime?
You really need to read up on the history of the Kelly's if you think they are cold blooded murderers. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing.
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Two British officers heavily implicated in ordering Morant and his crew to shoot prisoners, never faced the music. 1) Captain Hunt who was dead, and 2/.Captain Taylor, Lord Kitcheners intel officer.
St Clair, a notable and senior lawyer responsible for reviewing inquiries and proceedings involving breaches of the Army Act was convinced by the evidence he reviewed against the accused, including Captain Taylor. His findings about Captain Taylor are significant. He confirmed that he as the superior officer of BVC officers and men, was responsible for issuing orders not to take prisoners.
Taylor and Hunt as British officers were superior to Morant and gave directions that they expected be followed. Morant and his co-accused were merely irregular volunteer soldiers .It is also clear from St Clair’s findings that it was Captain Taylor who took the initiative to issue orders not to take prisoners. It was not at the instigation of Morant, who earlier had been reprimanded by Captain Hunt for refusing to obey the order.
Morant eventually followed the order when he found his friend Captain Hunt had been tortured/killed by Boers.
Major Thomas, Morants legal representative delivered this statement to the court concerning the accused persons assigned task of dealing with guerrillas operating under no rules of engagement or protocols of laws of war:
" the prisoners’ defence is that, no matter in what way the charge against them has been, or might have been framed, the action they respectively took in the summary execution of these eight Boers was justifiable, or, at any rate, not criminal’. ‘That which would be a crime, a felony, or a malicious act in time of peace may be quite justifiable in time of war, and doubly so in guerrilla warfare, waged against men who cannot be regarded as lawful belligerents, but only as lawless bands of marauders, who carry on desultory hostilities, combined with train wreckings and other uncivilised practices. Upon such an enemy I maintain our troops are justified in making the severest reprisals, and are entitled to regard them, not as lawful belligerents at all, but as outlaws."
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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re: N.Kelly, from what little I've read, Neds gang surely sealed their own fate after conducting a brazen pre-emptive ambush on the police patrol encamped at Stringybark creek, killing three of the four police in an ensuing shootout. If I read correctly, It was only after that incident , that they were then officially declared outlaws and rewards posted. Following that the gang then robbed a bank.
Police of those times were to a degree like a mercenary force where people could not necessarily expect fair and just dealings with them. But the Kelly family and associates were no angels themselves. Unfortunately things escalated to tragic ends for both sides...and both rightfully should bear some blame for that. Those were no doubt different and harsher times.
From the beginning,forms of law and order enforcers be it military or civil in the early colonies were rather corrupt.The NSW Corps under officer McCarthur being a prime example. McCarthur and men were also later charged with insurrection. When the first civil police force was formed in the first British colony in Aus. it was made up of 12 or so, of the best behaved convicts.
When the First Fleet arrived in late Jan. 1788 to settle on Aus soil, included were 212 Royal Marines to keep the convicts in check... Governor Phillip later ordered and conducted the hanging of 6 Royal Marines for stealing from gov. stores, the seventh survived by being an informer.
The men that the Royal Marines and NSW Corps were recruited from, in some cases had backgrounds no better than the convicts they were assigned to guard. Of course that problem wasn't exclusive to those two groups, you could say much the same for many of the more regular British garrisons.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Yeah, he was just a murderous bastard. Didn't deserve being made famous by a movie. Says a lot about Australia that its two most legendary characters are Breaker Morant and Ned Kelly, both of them actually just thieving murderers to be honest. Morant is the most or 2nd most legendary Australian character?..where do you draw that conclusion from? and if it wasn't for the English having their constant hate and mistreatment of the Irish , Kelly might not have taken exception to it. If you bother to read up on your British empire Kiwi colonial history, you will find it was the most lawless violent white settlement in that part of the ocean under the British Empire.- It became so bad because: 1./ the unregulated transient nature of its white european occupants 2./ There was for a good time, no British marines or garrisons stationed there to keep the constant crime, violence, and decrepit behaviour in check. The rampant violence and lawlessness that took place there was far worse than what occurred under the martial law controlled British colony in Australia. It got so bad that the British were forced to send a commanded detachment of military force from the NSW colony in desperate attempt to try and get some sort of civil order in NZ. -At that time NZ wasn't really recognised as much, for it was merely part of the Colony of NSW. Breaker Morant and Ned Kelly are the first two legendary Aussie characters. The third one is the jolly swagman by the billabong. You just made up that entire post about NZ history as you were typing it. And I'm not sure what that's got to do with Breaker Morant and the Ned Kelly. Neither of them ever went to NZ. I'm not going to bother explaining 19th century New Zealand history to you. If anybody is interested there are some excellent books out there about it. Start with the musket wars and go forward from there.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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What about Peter Handcock? What about the Englishman who was pardoned for the same crime?
You really need to read up on the history of the Kelly's if you think they are cold blooded murderers. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing. Yeah I ve read about them. It only reinforced my opinion on Australian police officers and made me observe that nothing has changed much. And the Kellys are still murderers too. You Aussies have to stop blaming everything on the English. You would have though that after the genocide of the Tasmanian abo's and the general oppression of the rest, the utter corruption of your politicians and police force, you would just come clean and admit that the entire colony was founded with criminals and just give up. When I lived there the nations pastimes were drinking and racism.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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Two British officers heavily implicated in ordering Morant and his crew to shoot prisoners, never faced the music. 1) Captain Hunt who was dead, and 2/.Captain Taylor, Lord Kitcheners intel officer.
St Clair, a notable and senior lawyer responsible for reviewing inquiries and proceedings involving breaches of the Army Act was convinced by the evidence he reviewed against the accused, including Captain Taylor. His findings about Captain Taylor are significant. He confirmed that he as the superior officer of BVC officers and men, was responsible for issuing orders not to take prisoners.
Taylor and Hunt as British officers were superior to Morant and gave directions that they expected be followed. Morant and his co-accused were merely irregular volunteer soldiers .It is also clear from St Clair’s findings that it was Captain Taylor who took the initiative to issue orders not to take prisoners. It was not at the instigation of Morant, who earlier had been reprimanded by Captain Hunt for refusing to obey the order.
Morant eventually followed the order when he found his friend Captain Hunt had been tortured/killed by Boers.
Major Thomas, Morants legal representative delivered this statement to the court concerning the accused persons assigned task of dealing with guerrillas operating under no rules of engagement or protocols of laws of war:
" the prisoners’ defence is that, no matter in what way the charge against them has been, or might have been framed, the action they respectively took in the summary execution of these eight Boers was justifiable, or, at any rate, not criminal’. ‘That which would be a crime, a felony, or a malicious act in time of peace may be quite justifiable in time of war, and doubly so in guerrilla warfare, waged against men who cannot be regarded as lawful belligerents, but only as lawless bands of marauders, who carry on desultory hostilities, combined with train wreckings and other uncivilised practices. Upon such an enemy I maintain our troops are justified in making the severest reprisals, and are entitled to regard them, not as lawful belligerents at all, but as outlaws."
That is an utterly uncovincing defence for murdering prisoners and civilans. The court thought so too obviously, because they shot him. Every soldier has the duty to refuse to obey an illegal order, but the characterisation of Morant as 'simply following orders' is not convincing motivation, not for him or his men, who initially objected to shooting prisoners but later were happy enough to shoot people out of hand, including civilians and black Africans who just happened to be there. But the Breaker Morant story certainly seems to sum up the that whole war as far as English behaviour and attitude towards colonial peoples go. (I dont mean towards him - he was an agent of British arrogance.)
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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[quote=Aussiesteve]What about Peter Handcock? What When I lived there the nations pastimes were drinking and racism. So?
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You must be an Aussie. Hows the drinking and racism coming along?
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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What about Peter Handcock? What about the Englishman who was pardoned for the same crime?
You really need to read up on the history of the Kelly's if you think they are cold blooded murderers. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing. Yeah I ve read about them. It only reinforced my opinion on Australian police officers and made me observe that nothing has changed much. And the Kellys are still murderers too. You Aussies have to stop blaming everything on the English. You would have though that after the genocide of the Tasmanian abo's and the general oppression of the rest, the utter corruption of your politicians and police force, you would just come clean and admit that the entire colony was founded with criminals and just give up. When I lived there the nations pastimes were drinking and racism. You are a pathetic looser. The Kelly's were Irish, police were Irish. Seeing as you know so much, why don't you tell us what happened when Fitzpatrick went to the Kelly homestead? It was soley on his word that the warrants for attempted murder were issued. Why were the police out of uniform in the Wombat rangers, why did 8 men in 2 parties search for what they thought were only 2 people? Why did the Mansfield boot maker make up a heap of long leather straps to carry out the bodies? Why didn't the police carry the warrants on them like they were legally obliged to? I'll tell you why smart arse, the police went to murder the Kelly bots and lost. As for once living here, all I can say is thank God you have gone. 1 less whining cuzzy bro over here thieving jobs of us. Maybe you could get a few thousand more to head home with you? There is 1 thing I never understood about Kiwi's. You will all fight for NZ, you will die for NZ, you will barrack for NZ, but none of you will bloody live there.
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Breaker Morant and Ned Kelly are the first two legendary Aussie characters. The third one is the jolly swagman by the billabong.
Ok, I will ask again...what source(s) do you draw that conclusion about Morant from?
You just made up that entire post about NZ history as you were typing it.
Then its highly evident you as a KIWI really don't know your NZ-British colonial empire history....since NZ was indeed part of the Crowns colony of NSW, and thus came under the administrational and durastictional laws of such. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/letters-p...d-a-colony-separate-from-new-south-walesThe below map link shows in pink, the basic boundary of NSW lands as first defined and claimed by Cpt. Cook for the Crown on Possession Island 22nd August 1770 and as it still remained when the First Fleet arrived in Australia 1788, with NZ remaining part of the same till 1840. When in Jan 1788 the actual colony of New South Wales had been founded, Its Governor, Captain Arthur Phillip had amended the Commission to alter the boundary not of the crown lands claimed by Cook, but of the colony itself. -- Dated 25 April 1787, the colony of New South Wales now included all the islands adjacent in the Pacific Ocean within the latitudes of 10°37'S and 43°39'S which encompassed most of New Zealand except for the southern half of the South Island. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Australia_history.gifColonial NZ lawlessness: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/treaty-timeline/treaty-events-1800-1849"1831 Māori petition the British government Growing lawlessness among Europeans in New Zealand and fears of a French annexation of the country led 13 northern chiefs to ask King William IV for his protection. Missionary William Yate helped the chiefs draft the letter to the King. The Crown acknowledged the petition and promised protection."Below: Read both sections p.55 " British Sovereignty" and " Treaty of Waitangi" that mention the issue with lawless white sailors and adventurers, as well as the ongoing problem with lawless white settlers: https://books.google.com.au/books?i...;q=nz%20colony%20lawlessness&f=false I'm not going to bother explaining 19th century New Zealand history to you.
For that we can all be rather thankful ,for you could not possibly convey important established historical facts about British colonial NZ that you were blatantly unaware of.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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That is an utterly uncovincing defence for murdering prisoners and civilans.
First major thing we discovered about you is your highly embarrassing lack of knowledge of British colonial NZ, now you try to show readers your analytical military lawyer skills regarding the legal provisions of the British Army Act. initially objected to shooting prisoners but later were happy enough to shoot people out of hand, including civilians and black Africans.
British military law it appears didn't care for the three Boer children shot near Fort Edward...Morant and crew were not indicted on those. Yet those killings were listed on a letter signed by Bushveldt Carbineers (BVC) at Fort Edward and dispatched to Col. F.H. Hall at Pietersburg. (written by BVC Trooper Robert Mitchell Cochrane), a former Justice of the Peace from Western Australia, that accused members of the Fort Edward garrison of six "disgraceful incidents" Another being the fatal shooting of Reverend Heese of the Berlin Missionary Society... yet Cochrane who drafted the letter made no mention of the fact, Rev. Heese's driver, a member of the Southern Ndebele people, was also shot and killed. So there you have it, both British and colonials deciding that some murders of civilians by BVC were worthy of military justice and others not.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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