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Originally Posted by Draftmule
This post caught my eye because I drew a premium Nevada Elk tag and am test shooting a bunch of different bullets. I for one need to step back and evaluate all these new bullet choices in context. In my home state I bow hunt and occasional rifle hunt bulls in a wide open high desert location that some tracking is no problem other than I can not stand witnessing a slower than faster kills. In scouting my Nevada unit with thick Juniper/Cedar knock-down bullet choice is more on my mind. I was talking to an old friend outfitter last weekend describing all the various bullets I am shooting.I asked for his advice for my desire for long range plus drop ability. he reminded me how much more advanced all bullets are these days. Of course he reinforced what we all recognize about normal shot failure.That is when bow and rifle hunters do NOT take out both lungs. Penetration, bullet weight retention plus fragmentation are all on our mind but most likely number one is accuracy. It is hard to dispute that Berger shooters have got the confidence in shot placement down. It would be helpful if some fire members could send a picture or two of real bullet failure if in fact the animal was recovered. Similar arguments with the all copper/copper-alloy bullets with impressive penetration but less so all-inspiring internal devastation. Being a newby long range shooter it takes a bunch of time to reload for 600 yards plus. An accurate down range bullet is a must for starters. Have had my share of tuning challenges with several of the long range bullet designs but will get it and then the harder best design choice. Thanks
for the debate.

Pay absolutely no attention to Llama_Bob. All he's posted about Bergers is a bunch of jibberish.

GB1

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Originally Posted by wyoelk


Please share with the group your personal experiences with Berger bullets on elk. You've made a point to mouth off several times about Bergers performance. I wish to know your personal experiences on shooting elk with them.



Here it is, drum roll please:


Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
The Bergers are... not good. Lots of bullet failures. They're trying to reinvent the wheel by using match/tactical bullet designs for hunting to appeal to the tacticool long range crowd, and it may be selling bullets but the wheel didn't need reinventing.




How many elk have you shot with Bergers?


Zero.




A wise man is frequently humbled.

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How enlightening. If I'd have known that Dali Llama Bob was ol' Larry I would have never wasted a second responding to that dullard.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Same. Fake news. Sad.

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Wow, are you Berger users a bunch of triggered millennials? Because you're sure acting like it.

The Berger hunting bullet's garbage. You'd be better off with a core-lokt. Why you'd want to wrap your ego up in it is beyond me.

IC B2

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I shoot elk...a lot of them in fact. Big ones as frequently as luck and my skill allow for. I've done so with about a dozen or more different bullets and calibers (not to include the ones I've killed with my bow or MZ).

As near as I can recall, every one of them tipped an elk over with relatively little drama when I shot them in the chest somewhere.

As technology/my skills/ my budget have allowed I've been able to shoot them from increasingly further distance with corresponding confidence. Bergers seem to help in that equation.

YMMV.

Dave

p.s. Am I a "triggered millennial"? I don't even know what that means honestly, but it sounds pretty sinister.


If you're not burning through batteries in your headlamp,...you're doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Wow, are you Berger users a bunch of triggered millennials? Because you're sure acting like it.

The Berger hunting bullet's garbage. You'd be better off with a core-lokt. Why you'd want to wrap your ego up in it is beyond me.


There's only one person on this thread whose ego is wrapped up in this. Sad that you can't see it.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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I'd kill a bull with a 140 Berger....


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
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Ain’t easy havin pals.
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I shoot berger hybrids with great success. They are a,little thicker jacketed than the vld hunting bullet. They kill stuff very quickly,but with a bit more blood shot than some care for. I have also used scenars in my sons 308. I killed a,big 6pt elk with it 2*years ago. He took about 5_steps and tipped over dead. Puddled his lungs.My boy killed a 202" mule deer with the same rifle, it went 3 steps. I could go on,but my point is that llama boy is a moron,and should stick to the cooking Chanel on TV. His opinion is worth very little. Maybe he could enlighten scenar shooter,on the pit falls of these terrible bullets.

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The "triggered" bit means something he said hit you in a sensitive spot and you're having a bad reaction to something contrary to your belief system. In truth, if the text in this thread is any indication, the triggered party is the one who threw the term out there.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
How enlightening. If I'd have known that Dali Llama Bob was ol' Larry I would have never wasted a second responding to that dullard.


Well, I'm not saying he's Larry for sure. Could be, but maybe he's just a garden variety azzhole in the same mold. One thing's for sure though. If he's not the same old azzwhole with a differnt name, he's an even bigger azzwhole, which is quite an achievement..



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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Elk are the new Cape buffalo....


Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.

Ain’t easy havin pals.
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I have never used a Berger to hunt with. Tried a few in a remington 260 but thats it. My big game rifle of choice is a 7mm remington mag. My question to all who like the Bergers is this. With how the bullet is supposed to work ( penetrate a few inches then come apart) would you take a shot at a bull elk that is quartering to you, I am leary of not getting the penetration into the vitals. Or if the elk is quartering away hard will the way the bullets fragments would it travel far enough forward to hit the vitals. I am NOT trying to put this bullet down, I want honest answers. This is the reason why I have not tried this bullet, I don't want a crippled animal. Now I know every scenario is different but I have bow hunted enough and passed on enough bad facing animals to know it happens. I do know that with a TTSX Barnes, a Accubond or Partition in the above described scenarios you could shoot and not worry. Your thoughts on the Berger??

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I personally don't like Berger VLDH because my very first kill, an average size whitetail buck, shot behind the shoulder, looked like the bullet exploded at impact. A very dead, blown up deer was the result, given this was only a 100yd shot. I've shot about 20 hogs with that same load and was equally unimpressed. Had I not seen where these hogs ran off to, after impact, I would have never found them. No exit, no blood, nothing.

I am NOT saying they won't kill and elk though, as I've only killed one in my life, with a 7mm 160 partition though.


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I personally don't like Berger VLDH because my very first kill, an average size whitetail buck, shot behind the shoulder, looked like the bullet exploded at impact.


Exactly - bullet failure is the norm with Berger's "hunting" bullets.

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You have an obsolete understanding of "bullet failure."



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I personally don't like Berger VLDH because my very first kill, an average size whitetail buck, shot behind the shoulder, looked like the bullet exploded at impact. A very dead, blown up deer was the result, given this was only a 100yd shot. I've shot about 20 hogs with that same load and was equally unimpressed. Had I not seen where these hogs ran off to, after impact, I would have never found them. No exit, no blood, nothing.

I am NOT saying they won't kill and elk though, as I've only killed one in my life, with a 7mm 160 partition though.

Stuff I've killed dropped dead, but there was a lot of tissue damage, sorta messy at the skinning shed.

I use 140 VLDH's in my 6.5-284, running them at 3K over 48 gr. RL-17. I'm going to see how well that gun shoots the new 147 ELD and plan to try 139 Scenars.

Seems a big bonus with the VLD is good expansion and fast kills at extended range, great ballistics and accuracy.

I don't LR shoot WT's, sometimes pronghorns.

DF

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Originally Posted by smokepole
You have an obsolete understanding of "bullet failure."

No, wanting a bullet that reliably passes through the vitals of the animal and ideally gives you an exit wound is not obsolete. It's what those of use who use correctly design hunting bullets can expect every time.

You're just saying good bullet performance is obsolete because otherwise you'd have to admit the performance of Berger bullets is pathetic. You're flailing grin

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168's and heavier are murder on elk. I've not seen or used 140's .

Last edited by rosco1; 07/12/17.
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If you use VLD's.....elk are the new prairie dogs.

Originally Posted by Judman
Elk are the new Cape buffalo....


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

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Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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