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Joined: Jun 2017
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New Member
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BATFE, for the millionth time, tells FFLs in writing to NOT send an FFL copy to a non-FFL. There have been instances of fraud enabled by the physical copy. Most FFLs refuse to send hard copies to non-FFLs, as they are supposed to.
Not trying to be argumentative, but do you have a specific example of this? A letter or link to the ATF site stating this? I have dealt with a number FFLs over the years and most of them will provide me a copy of their FFL to forward to the selling FFL if I ask politely. Occasionally they will ask for the transfer fee up front. My current FFL has provided me a copy of his which I scanned for use when I need it, with his permission. I asked him about this scenario a couple of years ago and he told me the ATF has never advised him not to do this.
Better to say nothing and have people think you a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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No problem. Any FFL is ok. Have the send or email you a copy of the FFL. Check the expiration date. Got to FFL EZ Check, and type in the first three and last five digits. FFL EZ CheckConfirm the ship to address and name on the FFL matches. Only ship to the FFL. Not to the buyer. The FFL will transfer it to the buyer. BATFE, for the millionth time, tells FFLs in writing to NOT send an FFL copy to a non-FFL. There have been instances of fraud enabled by the physical copy. Most FFLs refuse to send hard copies to non-FFLs, as they are supposed to. Not true!
Kelly
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
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Just use the FFL you like or normally use.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,984
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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So it sounds like the bottom line is, ask the buyer what their preferred FFL is, contact the FFL and get their license #, look their license # up in the EZ Check web site, and only ship to the official address listed in the EZ Check web site. You're making it too difficult. You sell your gun and tell the buyer to have his FFL email you a copy of his FFL. For your part, send a copy of your driver's license with the firearm. You can ship long guns USPS, but only an FFL is legally allowed to ship handguns that way. In short, it's the buyer's responsibility to provide his FFL. You don't have to call them.
Kelly
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,984
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Just use the FFL you like or normally use. To ship? I'm confused about yall's advice.
Kelly
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
So it sounds like the bottom line is, ask the buyer what their preferred FFL is, contact the FFL and get their license #, look their license # up in the EZ Check web site, and only ship to the official address listed in the EZ Check web site. You're making it too difficult. You sell your gun and tell the buyer to have his FFL email you a copy of his FFL. For your part, send a copy of your driver's license with the firearm. You can ship long guns USPS, but only an FFL is legally allowed to ship handguns that way. In short, it's the buyer's responsibility to provide his FFL. You don't have to call them. There is ZERO requirement for a non-licensed person to have a copy of the FFL license. The only requirement is that a firearm is mailed to an FFL. An individual can verify that via Ez-check. PERIOD. Also, there is ZERO reason to send a copy of your driver's license.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,984
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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There is ZERO requirement for a non-licensed person to have a copy of the FFL license. The only requirement is that a firearm is mailed to an FFL. An individual can verify that via Ez-check. PERIOD.
Also, there is ZERO reason to send a copy of your driver's license.
That's true, but the FFL in his hand gives him piece of mind that he's not breaking any laws and is actually shipping to an FFL. You're correct about not being required to send a driver's license to the FFL. It's just a courtesy to the receiving FFL who will be logging it in. It becomes problematic when you receive a firearm from an individual that doesn't even include who it's supposed to be transferred to. I've received guns for customers plenty of times when the return address was the local mail pack store. I don't know who it's from or who it's for.
Kelly
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,586
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
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There is ZERO requirement for a non-licensed person to have a copy of the FFL license. The only requirement is that a firearm is mailed to an FFL. An individual can verify that via Ez-check. PERIOD.
Also, there is ZERO reason to send a copy of your driver's license.
This may be technically true, but in the real world shipping clerks often like to see an FFL when shipping a firearm and I'd rather just show them a copy than get into an argument over Federal law with them. By the same token, receiving dealers often require a copy of ID from the seller because it gives them something to fill out the FROM part of the log book. Sure it's not foolproof, but again I'd rather just provide it than argue with them. As far as how to ship goes, UPS has changed how it measures packages and now charges by dimensional weight. This means that a long package like a long gun is very expensive. I found this out when I tried to ship a 5 lb 22 rifle and they wanted $50 to ship it. Off it went via USPS.
Last edited by natman; 07/08/17.
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Posts: 8,920 Likes: 13
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 13 |
It cracks me up every time this same basic thread comes up again, seems like about every 2-3 months. No, there is no legal requirement for a non-FFL to ever receive a copy of an FFL. Just verifying the license number through the EZ-Check system is all a non-FFL needs to do to cover their azz. No, there is no legal requirement to provide a copy of your driver's license to an FFL, nor is it 100% guaranteed to eliminate scams by doing so. However, nearly all dealers require it simply because of the fact that it does show that they made a reasonable effort to verify who they received a firearm from. If I receive one with no id, and can't get in touch with them to have it emailed, then I send it right back where it came from. I have also found that, in most cases, someone unwilling to provide a copy of said id, to a LICENSED FFL, is up to no good.
While it's true that all liberals are crazy people, not all crazy people are liberals.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
It cracks me up every time this same basic thread comes up again, seems like about every 2-3 months. No, there is no legal requirement for a non-FFL to ever receive a copy of an FFL. Just verifying the license number through the EZ-Check system is all a non-FFL needs to do to cover their azz. No, there is no legal requirement to provide a copy of your driver's license to an FFL, nor is it 100% guaranteed to eliminate scams by doing so. However, nearly all dealers require it simply because of the fact that it does show that they made a reasonable effort to verify who they received a firearm from. If I receive one with no id, and can't get in touch with them to have it emailed, then I send it right back where it came from. I have also found that, in most cases, someone unwilling to provide a copy of said id, to a LICENSED FFL, is up to no good. Good ahead, add to the confusion... Laughing!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
There is ZERO requirement for a non-licensed person to have a copy of the FFL license. The only requirement is that a firearm is mailed to an FFL. An individual can verify that via Ez-check. PERIOD.
Also, there is ZERO reason to send a copy of your driver's license.
This may be technically true, but in the real world shipping clerks often like to see an FFL when shipping a firearm and I'd rather just show them a copy than get into an argument over Federal law with them. By the same token, receiving dealers often require a copy of ID from the seller because it gives them something to fill out the FROM part of the log book. Sure it's not foolproof, but again I'd rather just provide it than argue with them. As far as how to ship goes, UPS has changed how it measures packages and now charges by dimensional weight. This means that a long package like a long gun is very expensive. I found this out when I tried to ship a 5 lb 22 rifle and they wanted $50 to ship it. Off it went via USPS. Shipping clerks should not be asking for anything... USES forbids their employees from trying to interpret or enforce gun laws for obvious reasons.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
There is ZERO requirement for a non-licensed person to have a copy of the FFL license. The only requirement is that a firearm is mailed to an FFL. An individual can verify that via Ez-check. PERIOD.
Also, there is ZERO reason to send a copy of your driver's license.
That's true, but the FFL in his hand gives him piece of mind that he's not breaking any laws and is actually shipping to an FFL. You're correct about not being required to send a driver's license to the FFL. It's just a courtesy to the receiving FFL who will be logging it in. It becomes problematic when you receive a firearm from an individual that doesn't even include who it's supposed to be transferred to. I've received guns for customers plenty of times when the return address was the local mail pack store. I don't know who it's from or who it's for. FFL in hand means nothing, they get forged regularly. If someone is too stupid to understand the need to provide a name to attach to a gun they probably should be getting rid of ALL their guns.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
Rob,
Note that USPS only allows you to ship long guns. Handguns are FFL to FFL only with USPS. Don't tell the USPS employee you're shipping a gun. It's completely legal, but you don't want to deal with idiot employees and postmasters who don't know their own regs, especially in WA state. Just answer "No" to their 4 questions and if asked what you're shipping say "machined metal parts" which is technically true.
I always get insurance (duh) and ship in a hard case, boxed. I cut some 1/4" plywood to fit on both large flat sides of the box for extra protection. Worth the extra weight in shipping cost for peace of mind IMO. Just for clarity, handguns may ship from a non-FFL, but only by common carrier such as UPS, FedEx, or whatever. They charge more and say you must ship overnight, which is far more expensive.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
What Bud's did for me, though was to send me a FEDEX label to return the Gun to the Factory pre-paid. That worked for me, but the Factory, (Eagle Imports) has had the gun since June 2 and I'm still waiting to hear from them. I wonder how long it takes to put a serial # on a Gun? They probably have some serious checking to do to figure out what the serial number should be.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
BATFE, for the millionth time, tells FFLs in writing to NOT send an FFL copy to a non-FFL. There have been instances of fraud enabled by the physical copy. Most FFLs refuse to send hard copies to non-FFLs, as they are supposed to.
Not trying to be argumentative, but do you have a specific example of this? A letter or link to the ATF site stating this? I have dealt with a number FFLs over the years and most of them will provide me a copy of their FFL to forward to the selling FFL if I ask politely. Occasionally they will ask for the transfer fee up front. My current FFL has provided me a copy of his which I scanned for use when I need it, with his permission. I asked him about this scenario a couple of years ago and he told me the ATF has never advised him not to do this. Not without doing some searching... I have posted it here a number of times. They send out irregular memos and such and it has been a topic a number of times. Ever since they started the ez-check system they have been saying it. I realize many FFLs create their own rules.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
No problem. Any FFL is ok. Have the send or email you a copy of the FFL. Check the expiration date. Got to FFL EZ Check, and type in the first three and last five digits. FFL EZ CheckConfirm the ship to address and name on the FFL matches. Only ship to the FFL. Not to the buyer. The FFL will transfer it to the buyer. BATFE, for the millionth time, tells FFLs in writing to NOT send an FFL copy to a non-FFL. There have been instances of fraud enabled by the physical copy. Most FFLs refuse to send hard copies to non-FFLs, as they are supposed to. Not true! Sorry, disabusing you of your fantasies is not on my to-do list today.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
So it sounds like the bottom line is, ask the buyer what their preferred FFL is, contact the FFL and get their license #, look their license # up in the EZ Check web site, and only ship to the official address listed in the EZ Check web site. You're making it too difficult. You sell your gun and tell the buyer to have his FFL email you a copy of his FFL. For your part, send a copy of your driver's license with the firearm. You can ship long guns USPS, but only an FFL is legally allowed to ship handguns that way. In short, it's the buyer's responsibility to provide his FFL. You don't have to call them. You would be way ahead asking advice, not giving it.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,984
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,984 |
So it sounds like the bottom line is, ask the buyer what their preferred FFL is, contact the FFL and get their license #, look their license # up in the EZ Check web site, and only ship to the official address listed in the EZ Check web site. You're making it too difficult. You sell your gun and tell the buyer to have his FFL email you a copy of his FFL. For your part, send a copy of your driver's license with the firearm. You can ship long guns USPS, but only an FFL is legally allowed to ship handguns that way. In short, it's the buyer's responsibility to provide his FFL. You don't have to call them. You would be way ahead asking advice, not giving it. OK, calm down, Sport. You seem to be way to worked up over this.
Kelly
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,625 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,625 Likes: 1 |
No problem. Any FFL is ok. Have the send or email you a copy of the FFL. Check the expiration date. Got to FFL EZ Check, and type in the first three and last five digits. FFL EZ CheckConfirm the ship to address and name on the FFL matches. Only ship to the FFL. Not to the buyer. The FFL will transfer it to the buyer. BATFE, for the millionth time, tells FFLs in writing to NOT send an FFL copy to a non-FFL. There have been instances of fraud enabled by the physical copy. Most FFLs refuse to send hard copies to non-FFLs, as they are supposed to. Give me a link or STFU. In probably 300 sales transactions, I have NEVER had an FFL refuse to provide me with a copy, and I would NEVER ship a firearm to someone that I could not verify.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,817 Likes: 15
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,817 Likes: 15 |
I recently sold a handgun via Gunbroker, my first sale there. I shipped a handgun from Texas to California using the guys linked below, a division of Bud's. The buyers FFL was not in their database. I provided the name of the FFL's business, a day later they emailed advising the buyers FFL was confirmed. They sent a shipping label via email. I printed it, taped it on the box and dropped it off at a FEDEX office at a mall near me. The handgun arrived at the California FFL next day. Coast was $35 plus insurance, that Bud's covers when the insured value is above FEDEX's $1,000 limit as mine was. All went smoothly and quickly. https://www.shipmygun.com/go/Pretty hard to confirm the serial number and little details like that without laying eyes, let alone hands, on the gun... So who has to confirm the serial number when I, a non-FFL, am shipping FEDEX overnight? I just followed their procedure shipping from an individual overnight via FEDEX. They allowed use of their volume shipping discount.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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