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Possibly I'm posting this because the "Pentecostals" thread got me thinking,but then I've been thinking along these lines for some time now. I've been saved-born again a little over 20 years now. I've reached a place where I'm just about fed up with Religion. I've always looked at religion as different than Christianity but even much more so the last 6-8 years since I've began to understand the wonderful gift that Christ really gave us,his grace and love toward us. Religion is just a system made up to try to get close to God. Christianity is God's way to get close to us,if you want to put it in a nut shell. I'm not going to make this real long though just short and to the point.

First, I want to express what I think religion is, and what I think many churches have become. It seems to me that churches are filled with people who want to do their duty to God,get their star beside their name,and get back to their business as fast as possible. Most of them think that being a Christian is about a list of rules that they have to follow. If they follow them well,Heaven,if not Hell,unless of coarse they repent with many tears and promise never to do it again. This group knows that God is in there somewhere, but mostly think he is there to judge how well they repented,or how bad they sinned. They are consumed by rules and regulations,constantly searching the scriptures for some rule or regulation that they missed,because it is by following these rules and regulations that they think they will please God. They are unfulfilled because they know in their hearts that they never give 100%,and they think they will never attain the place God wants them to be and please him in the way he wants ,until they somehow reach this unattainable goal. They however always ask you to pray for them to attain this unattainable goal, and pray that you will attain it also.

Now let me say very simply what Christianity is. God made man. Man messed up. Man couldn't fix it,but God couldn't fix it for him because it was his responsibility to fix. God knew man couldn't fix his own problem ,so he became a man and fixed it himself. All man has to do now is trust that God fixed his problem and live like it's fixed. It really is that simple. All God wants is for us to trust him,love him,and love each other.

Church should be a celebration about what Jesus has done for us and a place where we can learn how to better love each other. It should be a place where we could learn all about what Jesus did for us,is doing for us,and is going to do for us. It should be a place where we can have all our spiritual needs taken care of and talk about the best way to take care of our physical and emotional needs as well.

Maybe God's moving me in this direction. I guess we will see.

Preaching and soul searching is putting me to sleep.

I just about refuse to be part of any "religion" but I'm a steadfast church goer. Found a home yrs ago and so far it hasn't let me down. Non-denominational, just Church. Not worried about fancy buildings or repaving parking lots, just church. An old large single story factory building bought off the bank for a song and rooms partitioned off and fixed up as needed at each stage of needing more rooms. It's grown and grown. Got to the point there was not enough room in the large sanctuary so they went to 2 services several yrs ago. See everybody from wealthy people to people right off the streets and everyone in between. Our pastor tells us all the time that this church is not for us but for those that need it. Basically the sick and oppressed, and depressed, and addicted, etc. Like a hospital for the unsaved. If you expect to go to that church and just be comfortable you will likely be moving on. I've heard the pastor say more than once if you are going to be complaining about stuff that doesn't matter....who sits where, who dresses how, what songs are played, how so and so offended you, etc. Just leave, we need your seat. Lol. That church does a heck of a lot of good in changing peoples lives and I'm happy to be a part of it.

The time's coming, and likely sooner than many think, when the real Christian church will be driven underground and the visible churches won't be preaching the word. Any church that preaches gay marriage and other sexual deviation is already outside of the Bible and it'll get a lot worse.

You must have needed the rest. Good night.

Guess you type in your sleep. Or maybe that's hype in your sleep.

You are referring of course to "legalism" which in any form is a man (me for instance) or women trying to figure out what they can do to merit eternal favor, whether it's doing "this 'r that" or "just being a pretty good guy, and, doggoneit, people like me." Yes, the world is full of these folk whether churched or unchurched. I never could understand folks thinking their idea of being "a good guy" was somehow the standard that the God of creation would relent to and accept.

I also often hear and read critical and deprecating comments about Christians here. In good measure some of its true -- it's why we recognize we need a savior; we all are flawed creatures but Christians recognize it on a personal level. And then there are those who believe but decry the notion of a room full of deplorables -- the church. Well, it's because we are instructed that believers form a body, a community of believers that help and support each other in myriad ways.

Then there are even those who deny the existence of God and for whom all of the above is complete nonsense. Well, the body of knowledge now in science, history, archeology, and philosophy has tipped the scales against your personal rejection of a God to whom you will be accountable.

Henry Morris PhD, a Christian and a geologist echoed Romans 1:19-20 when he said," acknowledging a creator by considering the natural world cannot save us (because it doesn't present the gospel) but it surely can condemn us because no one will have an excuse."

God's redemptive plan equals Jesus, God, who became a perfect man to be sacrificed for our sins to redeem us before a perfectly holy and just God. Free for us but we will never wholly realize the cost of it to the God of the universe.

Such is of the greatest love.

I,m sad to think you may be correct Rock. Our church is in the red $10,000, and they hire carpets cleaned for another $2400. It's not all about religion, but raising funds as well.

I think you are right. We are on the edge -- whether sharp or a long-sloping dull -- of a very dark and long night.

Very good observation.
However, make no mistake, God wants us to worship him and to make sacrifices for him. The first commandment is to love God with your whole heart and mind.

Like marriage, without love religion is just a bunch of stifling rules.

I think I mentioned that God wants us to love him, but even the commandments were all fulfilled by Jesus. In Him we too have already fulfilled every commandment. Our love toward him now is not a command but a fruit that grows from the connection to(him) the vine.

Methinks He'd prefer us to love one another. Can't imagine a guy that can make a platypus and a solar system is loosing sleep over someone not burning an ox for him.

Ha! If you think Christians are about rules, check out the Jewish faith....... You've got nothing until you see that legalism.

Organized religion is not about God or works or even money. It is about control over other people. I'm allergic to organized religion.

I don't want to get too pedantic, but "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

i'm learning to not reply in too much detail in these types of threads, lest my honest perceptions and understandings might cause the bristles on the back of the necks of certain members of certain sects to stand up.

but beyond the nitty, gritty details, i think the RC man is pretty much correct in his assessment of change sweeping through Christendom as we speak. only time will reveal how it all turns out.

if we fall into the abyss likely god will be greatly disappointed. on the other hand if we finally get to the point of re-joining w/god, i feel pretty certain he'll be joyous as will we.

It's been said a thousand times.
The biggest problem with"christianity" is christians.
Churches have become businesses for pastors and their extended family to line their own pockets, nearly tax free.
Lots of churches 'round here employ the dad, mom, kid(s) and in-laws.

God wants us to love him with your whole heart and mind. He wants us to accept him into our heart and let him guide us with his words.

Yes,and if we were living under that Law, that would be correct,and it was correct when Jesus said that,having been asked a question about that Law,but Hebrews chapter 7 and 8 tells how that the Old Covenant of Law has passed away to be replaced by a New Covenant of grace.This New Covenant is not conditional,but God says that he will be merciful to our unrighteousness and will no longer remember our sins and iniquities. If you don't agree or yet understand that,that's OK,You can study it out for yourself and accept what I'm saying or not. I appreciate you though and I don't want to turn this into an argument.

Seems you have it about right. You must be an old school Baptist.

Yep, even bowhunters.