However I seen no reason to accept your assertion that through the methods of science we can NEVER be able to explain the origins of the universe and planck time, and beyond this universe. In less then 100 years, we've gone from determining there were objects beyond our galaxy, to understand the universe is expanding to an understanding of this universe to within 10 to the negative 43 of a second of it's beginning. How can you claim to know what we will, or will not be able to understand in 100, 200, or a 1000 years from now?
Some christians seem to be in a hurry to understand the universe, with such impatience inserting God becomes the convenient answer. Some are not much different to primitive savages that will refer matters to the village witch-doctor.
a God when angry that creates earthquakes and Jesus cursing-casting spells on trees that refuse to bear fruit out of season...
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
But, yes we CAN use what was not written. It's called Apostolic Tradition andthe Catholic Church is the only church to maintain the fullness of that tradition.
Horseschitt! From Pentecost in 33 AD to 1054, there was only one church. Then............the Roman Church went off the rails in 1054 breaking the fullness of the traditions and Apostolic succession.
But I agree with the first part and would add that the Church Fathers wrote plenty about what was not included in Scriptures. The Scriptures are the Scriptures. They weren't intended to include what we call unwritten traditions because when they were written to the audiences they were intended for at the time, the Church traditions were common knowledge and the writers didn't need to waste valuable papyrus reminding them of what they were.
I do believe that Christians are to be lead by the Holy Spirit and have a real relationship with God. That does not mean however that I think it's a good idea to throw your Bible away. Jesus himself was a scholar of the written word and often referred to specific passages of scripture. Yes,Christians can become legalistic regarding the letter and completely miss the Spirit. The Pharisee is the perfect example. The correct way is to allow the Holy Spirit to interpret God's word and bring revelation that would never come without Him. That's not to say that God won't just talk to believers because he will.
Nor do I think it should be thrown away. It's great literature. With in are may literary truths, even though the story are not true in the literal sense.
What is truth? Is it only that which you agree with?
RH,
Let me give you an non-Christian example of a deep literary truth. Although none of the characters in they myth ever existed, it can bring a different perspective to the human condition.
I hope you find this enjoyable:
He is currently doing a series of lectures on the Bible, fascinating stuff focusing so far mostly on Genesis but branching off a bit too. His YouTube channel has them and many other really good videos.
YOU are your evidence. You don't see it because you look outward.
You can't find ANYTHING if you refuse to look where it is.
"He is within you, look not for Him elsewhere". ..... Bro. Lawrence, I believe.
Christ is not in those who reject Him. Satan is the destroyer, one of his henchmen is AS. He comes to destroy every conversation christians try to have and we argue with and try to educate him. Who of you would change Satan into a christian step forward. Languish in yourfolly. AS proves nothing but that he adores the great deciever.
He proves the existence of satan by the Lords explanation in the Bible, and thus, by extension, that the Lord is right. What i learned from AS. We all know we are born of the flesh. He taught me that does not mean there is a Spirit. Duh. We all like water or hunting or guns. You know what ? That does not mean there is a God. I mean, what genius we deal with.
If we bowhunters are discussing killing a deer with a certain broadhead and some interloper who knows nothing about it through experience and they dont want to learn and all they want to do is tell us how stupid we are for not being like him and using a gun, are we to involve and argue with him
He argues about something we have heard, seen, felt and tasted and yet we involve him as if we must change him into someone who will eventually hear the wonderful sound of an arrow popping ribs.
Why?
Even the blind strive to lead someone. RC
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/23/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Defending your viewpoints in writing is the best way to test their correctness. Antelope Sniper is just engaging in that activity along with the rest of us.
I expect he and I would enjoy a hunting camp together and I can't say the same for Ringman, etal.
We have read the Lords commandments and we know they are good a suitable for humans, families, nations and civilizations. The destroyers, who have been devieved, would have us throw that away to accept the ways of the world. To destroy this nation they have their PC rules and recommendations as adhered to by the open border and muzzy loving crew.
Others attack from another direction, being wolves in sheeps clothing.
What is it that AS finds so viscerally unaccetable about the believe of Christians. Is he so opposed to those with serious disease seeing witch doctors? Heck no. But if you speak of the reason for there being a right and wrong he is there to tell you there is no such reason. Subliminal messsge- do as you wish, lean on your own understanding. Go to hell if there is one as i dont want to be alone. Misery loves company.
Of course, those like him object, and agree we need laws against murder, assualt, theft, etc because they above all want to be considered reasonable.
Satan the great pretender, knows all the scriptures words- just not their meaning or reason for being.
Good luck in your quest to agrue with Satan.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I could probably enjoy a hunting camp with Madonna.
There is something besides neighborlyness that drives someone to try and destroy attempts by believers to come together and discuss their Savior and it that something is not Good. It comes from evil for evil. It is Evil.
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/23/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I would love to see you all in a big get together around a fire.....with yer spears bibles and knives ...........you could work it out.
It would be Biblical !
There was something like you would like to see. It is recorded in Acts Fifteen. It started off with factions . They all came to agreement because they all believed in Jesus and were filled with the Holy Spirit.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
"The whole world is the garment of the Lord. Reject it and recieve it back as a gift from God."
Sounds like something you might post, Gus.
ever since ol swami muktananda came over here to the us with his teachings of enlightenment, i've recognized that the hindu's do exist in various types, forms, and sorts. since he gave over the teachings, business, or calling to his deciple gurumaya the work goes on, and she works hard at the subject from all indications.
lot's of the writings from 4000 plus years ago teach a lot about medicine and healing. i know Jesus was a great healer. don't know if he was naturally born with that ability or if he went off somewheres to "school" and learned the craft?
I'm going to quote you here: "If you can't define it, there's not good reason to believe it exist." The primary problem with that statement is the "you". If instead you had said "If AS can't define it, there's not good reason for AS to believe it exist", I could understand and accept that. It appears that you are missing, or very dramatically discounting, an important dimension. Paul Tillich wrote very well about the dynamics.
Regardless of how many books he wrote, Paul Tillich is still just a presuppositionalist. A philosophy build upon a fallacy is not more stable than a 100 story skyscraper built on swampland.
AS, here you seem to avoid my exposure of where your statement fits, where it does not, and a missing dimension - an important dimension - one addressed by many and by Tillich in non-mystical and non-evangelical terms. It seems like, rather than addressing that dimension, you choose rather flippantly to dismiss the thinking of one of the great theological minds of the 20th century because you envision some philosophical fallacy. It's not about some philosophy - it's not about the person (not a theological hero of mine, but a seminal source for insight) - it's about a basic issue.
the essential tillich is quite the read. for me, as a lowly commoner, i'm much more interested in what father mathew fox has to say about co-creation theology. that is, man and god working as partners, each carrying responsibilities for making the earth a better place as we steward it into perpetuity. we'll take care of the environment, and god will hopefully keep a meteor from striking the earth....a really productive partnership.
AS, I admire you Google powers and even more your patience in cutting 'n pasting some long article. However, the credentials, backgrounds, and beliefs of the authors disputing their Pauline origin is strangely missing. The world is awash in liberal "Christians" theologians and apostacy. There are professors and pastors who don't believe even cornerstone doctrines of Christianity such as the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc., so differences in opinion of the origin of this or that book are almost patty-cake stuff.
For sake of our discussion, say Paul did not write these books (though he did), it doesn't change the veracity of their content does it.
Do you know how a book qualified to be included in the canon of scripture?
AS and Curdog, I wish a good week for you both. I appreciate this thread or as much as I read of it was kept at a civil level.
AS, I admire you Google powers and even more your patience in cutting 'n pasting some long article. However, the credentials, backgrounds, and beliefs of the authors disputing their Pauline origin is strangely missing. The world is awash in liberal "Christians" theologians and apostacy. There are professors and pastors who don't believe even cornerstone doctrines of Christianity such as the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc., so differences in opinion of the origin of this or that book are almost patty-cake stuff.
For sake of our discussion, say Paul did not write these books (though he did), it doesn't change the veracity of their content does it.
Do you know how a book qualified to be included in the canon of scripture?
AS and Curdog, I wish a good week for you both. I appreciate this thread or as much as I read of it was kept at a civil level.
I lived in a small town. There were thirteen churches there. Seven of the pastors did NOT believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. One of the pastor was a "Christian" by proclamation only because he needed to be a "Christian" to keep his job. It made no difference how many degrees they might have. They didn't accept Truth. That's why when I challenge people to name two Ph.D level scientists who have switched to evolution AFTER earning their degree I exclude theologians and philosophers. Physical scientist at least try to deal with facts. They may not interpret them correctly, but at least they have facts. The other two classes of "scientists" deal in personal opinion.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Proverbs 26:4 New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.
AS does not want to attempt to learn anything about God, Christians, or Christianity. He just shows up to argue. It's evident on every discussion like this that pops up. I believe he has a pride issue and that gets in the way. This is why I quit responding to his nonsense. God is easy to find if a guy wants to.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
The time's coming, and likely sooner than many think, when the real Christian church will be driven underground and the visible churches won't be preaching the word. Any church that preaches gay marriage and other sexual deviation is already outside of the Bible and it'll get a lot worse.
Proverbs 26:4 New International Version Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.
AS does not want to attempt to learn anything about God, Christians, or Christianity. He just shows up to argue. It's evident on every discussion like this that pops up. I believe he has a pride issue and that gets in the way. This is why I quit responding to his nonsense. God is easy to find if a guy wants to.
It's telling that in these threads about Christianity unbelievers are some of the first to jump in to deny some doctrine or the word of God to salve and justify their unbelief.
Otherwise, why participate in something you don't believe in? It's obviously not to learn anything.
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