Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Unions down to about 12% of the workforce

Smith and Wesson is non-union.

Ironic how the anti union vote comes from folk who for the most part have good non-union jobs and have never worked in a Walmart type position.

Unions need to focus on productivity and profits, not only for themselves, but for the owners and shareholders. Without profit, the company they work for simply folds.

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+1

Right on!!!
I never looked outside of myself for security. It's the guy I see in the mirror every morning that provided, and provides, all of my security. And, that same guy provides all of my joy and happiness too. Maybe that's why my blood pressure is 120/70, all day, every day.
What Stick's talking about is being responsible, for everything in his life.

Don

Regarding the Walmarting of America: I like the Maryland initiative that would pro-rate part timer's benefits. Part timers get hosed when benefits "turn on" at 32.01 hours per week. Guess what, they never see more than 31.99 hours per week. Management's complaint that it would be impossible to manage is pretty weak now that everything is computerized. The computer can multiply by 31.99/40.00 as easily as by 1.0

Regarding government unions. I fully support fire fighters and police officers being able to retire after 20 years. It grinds me to no end that the office weenies get the same benefits. They are not on the firing line eating smoke and getting shot at.

-Joe

I used to be a service tech. Every week I was in a different factory.
Of the union shops I was in there was one that the workers were high quality. In all of the other shops the workers were more interested in learning how to disable machinery in case of a strike.
It seems to me unions are more about NOT working than working.
If I was union I would be pissed every time I gave the union money and looked at all of the fat at the top sucking money from the laborers

2MG
There is no sense in trying to change the opinion of some of the "smart people" here at the Fire. We've been down this union / nonunion street before. If all companies were like Bowhuntr's there would be no need for unions but since it obvious that all are not! The need for unions are still here. Are unions without their problems, no are they the best thing going, no. They are however the only thing keeping working America from working for Walfart wages. If it wasn't for the unions Bowhuntr and other good paying companies would have nothing to compare there wages to. They would not be afraid of say, "The Union" coming in and stealing there best employees and "telling me how to run my company" which if some of these people knew anything about unions would know that most of the contractors have more to tell us than we have to tell them. Nonunion may not like it but the union keeps there wages in check. Without the unions everyone would be working for 10/hr. PROUD MEMBER OF LOCAL 520 PLUMBERS AND PIPEFITTERS SINCE 1989.

I have sort of a unique perspective on this subject because I have been BOTH a union represented employee
AND a mangement employee for a major US corporation.

Here is my view, for what it's worth.

Unions are only as good as the people they represent.

If the employees choose to abuse the rights that their unions have negotiated for them both the union and the company will fail.

In situations where the union represented employees chose to give a full day's work for a full day's pay, the company usually did very well.

On the other hand, in situations where the union represented employees chose to abuse the payroll system, create work slowdowns, go on strike etc., in an effort to gain an unfair advantage over management, eventually both the union and the company failed.

Too often the latter was the case and I personally witnessed many excellent manufacturing operations either closed down or moved off shore due to nothing more than the insatiable greed of the union represented employee.

I could provide numerous FIRST HAND examples of where, as a member of management I provided both employees and union officials with "inside information" that if they did not curtail their incessant demand for higher wages, without providing a corresponding increase in productivity, their jobs were doomed.

In many cases, these individuals chose to "eat their babies" and allow many good paying jobs to go elsewhere or be eliminated all together.

The union vs management debate going on here may rage on (and it probably will), but nothing will be resolved until both factions realize that the arguement is not about the organizations involved, but rather it's about the PEOPLE involved.

From a management perspective, I don't blame the union for the demise of the myriad of US businesses that have been lost to foreign competition, I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the greedy, self interested and often lazy American worker.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it............

If you don't know the history of how things came to be you should refrain from making uninformed comments.

#1 Toyota employees pay is comprable to that of an employee working for the big three. In reality, Toyoya employees make more due to bonuses.
Legacy cost which Toyota isn't involved with due to them being a young company in the U.S. is where the issues lie.


#2 From my point of view, I've seen my wages almost double in the past 20 years. The increase hasn't come from union demands. Read that again, the increase hasn't come from union demands.

The company I work for has been downsizing since the day I started my employment with them. When it came time to negotiate a new contract management approached the union with sizeable pay increases (within the national average) with the idea management would downsize the workforce. We accepted the pay raise knowing jobs were going to be cut. The union hasn't forced the pay rate up, management was leading us with a carrot to accept their business plan

AJ, your Toyota was made by union labor. I have installed machinery in the NUMI plant in Fremont, Ca. We(read union constuction)worked our azzes off (up to 16 hour days).I am proud to be a 30 year union member. I see a change comeing in our work force. The general contractor on the site where I am running a crew now calls Labor Ready for his help. Contractor pays Labor Ready and they take a cut off the top. Is this the new union? No training, no say in what they earn and you can imagine the skills these guys have.
The safety manager/ superintendant ordered clothing for Macys then took a thirty day coarse to get the job(owner's college buddy). There are great union and non-union laborers and employers out there. I am sure glad we have a choice in this county.
Allan

Worked in two union shops and know quite a few union members. They seem to be saddled with a mentality that they are being screwed and will do anything to sabotage the company and do as little as possible. I couldn't make any money there. I work piece work and work as hard as I feel like. I make twice as much as the union guys and work less hours. I can write my own paycheck by working accordingly. While my union counterparts in other shops whine I go make money. Last week I worked 34hours in 4 days, took yesterday off, I haven't worked a night, weekend or holiday in 10 years. I got payed for 86 billable hours last week and so did the employer. I earned every one of them. I'm very valuable to my employer, if I have a problem I go direct to the owner and we settle it right now. Will never work union again, they hold you back and and set production levels to the lowest common denominator (employee)in the shop.

Not directed at anyone in particular, just my two cents on unions.
Do your job, do it right, and you will not need a bunch of lazy socialists profiting from your labor.

,.... and do it for less than the illegals from Mexico are asking,.. and they'll go back to where they came from!

There's the answer to the illegal immigration situation!

I oughtta run for office.

I'm more enthralled with a $20 bounty,open Season and no bag limits....................

ultiately the company-union relationship is a parasitic one, the succesful parasite does not kill the hoast. that said, successful companies work with unions for the common goal of sustained profitablity for all involved. public companies are at the whim of shareholders who want unrealistic return on investment, this stifles growth and inovation in industrial plants, when that growth slow the shareholder will take thier money elsewhere, this is a transeant parasite. this form of parasite wants suck the life blood from companies then move on to do it all again. Bushrat has some valid points which work only if you have a good employer, trouble is there are many bad employers out there. In my industry there are jobs that take a long period of time to master the employer wants to keep these workers at these jobs because production stays up. My work place employs union and non union contractors especially during maintenance shut downs. They work at the same pace we do but take more risk by ignoring safety procedures , and doing slip shod work , next year they come back under a differant company name. I have 20yrs invested with my employer and i don' want to see them/me fail. ya we have lazy people but they are few and far between, we have a contract that basically you will do your job or be dismissed and this has happened. Union can not protect in these cases, company must have all the correct documentation however

Were I starting a new Business venture,the last thing I'd want to add to the equation,is Union Labor.....................

Yet you want a $20 bounty on those who would provide cheap imported labor for your venture?

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I've worked both sides of the union fence and can say I've made some fine money both ways...

A man makes his own luck, right?

Preparation + Opportunity = Luck

Would bushel the initial investment capital at 20 clams a pop and surround myself with good people,by paying a very good wage.

Should get a tax break,for diminishing the burden of the Government.

Win/win.................