Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Unions down to about 12% of the workforce

Indy said, "The above applies only to the private sector. Unions there will soon be extinct. A real threat to America is the public sector unions, where lazy featherbedders retire at 80% pay after 20 years, thumbing their nose at taxpayers who actually work for a living."

You are full of more crap than a Christmas goose. You damn well do not know of what you speak.
I retired after 33 years of federal service working for the Weather Bureau, later named the National Weather service. I would be damned happy to be getting 80 percent of what I was making at retirement. I get all of 45 percent and that's it. besides that, I get penalized on my social Security thanks to Ronnie Raygun. So don't give me all your BS about public sector unioun workers. Private sector unions have the right to strike. Public sector do not on pain of termination. Just ask the air traffic controllers during Ronnie Raygun's regime.
During my tenure for the WB, I worked health debilitating rotationg shifts. I had the responsibility of giving out timely warnings of severe weather so sorry asses like yourself wouldn't get killed. I also worked as the shop steward, without pay for that task for over 25 years trying to keep the dickhead management from screwing over my people.
If you don't like public sector people, maybe you should dig a bit deeper and find out why they are the way they are. If you were treated by your employer the way, for example, postal workers are treated by their foremen, you'd most likely eventually "go postal". I worked for the P.O. for two years. I quit because I would have done a couple of rectal orifaices some very serious knots about their heads and shoulder, and that would have been for starters.
Indy, you just don't know what you think you know.
Paul B.

Paul,

Did you contribute to Social Security during your time with NWS? Curious as the senior Federal Employees that I work with that are under the older retirement system will not SS or get it at some very small level yet they have never had to contribute to it so it seems fair to me.

I have worked for non-union industrail construction companys before. And won't ever again for a number of reasons.
I'm on jobs where there are at times an easy 300-500 workers from different trades. With the union I'm surrounded buy a large majority of men and women of all races that have completed apprenticship programs, passed mandatory and random drug tests and are #1 also trained in every aspect of saftey!!! Used to work heavy industrial site's that had serious on the job drug usage, non-skilled, non-trained could careless about saftey employees.
As a carpenter here in southwest Washington our crews are finely tuned machines. Nothing like being surrounded by competent people in safe environments. "Lazy" if your lazy your gone! There's a long list of people that would just love to take your place.
To many neighborhoods in this country filled with people working for [bleep] wages, with [bleep] homes, with [bleep] or no benefits, driving [bleep] cars, with [bleep] attitudes and no pride in themselves.
In my neck of the woods unions build pride and better familys! When your quality of life is better you have more pride and do better work! It's contagious!
Not to mention that most jobs I work are way to large for non-union, non-trained, non-safe companys.
If I'm not mistaken a pard of mine just bought a Nissan pick-up built right here in America buy union workers. His last truck of the same brand he sold was still going strong with over 290,000 miles. I beleive it was also built here in america.
Good luck to our grand children who will have to compete with millions of immigrants for [bleep] wage jobs! Sure hope the unions are still around for them.
It won't be long before all you non-union workers out there will be fighting for your jobs because our brothers south of the border will happily work for [bleep] wages. You might not see it but watch out the way things are going our children will.

The more I read this the more apparent it becomes of how uninformed many people are about unions in general. Fact is, most of would join one in a minute given the opportunity. For those who think the average skill level of non-union and or immigrant labor is on par with those of a journeyman union tradesman, that is laughable.............By the way, Toyota is building a new headquarters here, they will be using union labor............2MG

Taxes are driving corporations offshore as well.
I have no idea how the Japanese tax their corporations but lets look at American cars vs. those made in Germany.

The Ford has about 23% tax embedded in the cost of the car.
The German car HAD a Value Added Tax but the goverment of Germany refunds the VAT to the carmaker.
It's even worse if Ford tries to sell a car in Germany, where on the showroom floor it has both the VAT and the imbedded tax.

Interesting that you should bring that up. There was an interesting piece in the Wash Times yesterday on that very subject... I almost fell out of my chair in shock that they would admit what was going on.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070125-091732-4936r.htm

Phyliis Schafly came out against our trade policy last month. There is some serious adjusting of attitudes regarding this matter by serious conservative opinion makers.

Will

some federal (GS) employees DO NOT contribute to Social Security. All President Reagan (God bless him) did was curtail the double dipping. I've had to deal with GS employees my whole career and the unionized ones are on the whole (there are always exceptions) prettyworthles and short of committing animal acts with minors, they are impossible to dismiss.

The joke in the Pentagon was that they were like "nuns" in the job for life. They do what they do when they want, and we as bosses have little or zero recourse to deal with them. Reagan (God Bless him) was spot on when he fired those no-loads. Glad to see unions are on the way out, but you'll never get them out of federal service, in fact it's only going to get worse. With the on going turnover of military jobs to civilians, we'll just continue to pay more and receive less. jorge

Here's some food for thought! Got a call the other day from a buddie in Northern Idaho. He's been logging all his life just like his dad and grandpa. His good friend who works for a different company just lost his job of 15 yrs because as a crew leader he couldn't speak spanish. He didn't forsee the fact that his employer was starting to profit more from a much lower payroll due to mexican workers! He didn't have the time to enroll in a spanish language class before being replaced by a lower payed disposible employee. It snowballs from there. Lower wages mean less pride. Less pride means more crime.
Bet that union bashing buddie of my friend sure was wishing he worked for a union logging outfit that would have payed for him to learn spanish!! He'd still have a job.

djmbow says:

Sorry my friend, but if you are going to quote someone in an effort to make a point, it's only fair that you do so without taking their remarks out of context.

This thread seemed to be heading toward a debate over the worthiness of unions and their overall impact on the decline that the US has been experiencing in it's ability to compete in the worldwide market.

Since many here had put the blame for this decline solely on the backs of the unions, I was merely trying to show that in many instances it is not the concept of unionization that is at fault, but it is the greed and laziness of the worker that is the culprit.

To that end, this is what I actually said:

From a management perspective, I don't blame the union for the demise of the myriad of US businesses that have been lost to foreign competition, I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the greedy, self interested and often lazy American worker.

Now if you want to broaden this debate to include a discussion about the extent to which management (or the lack thereof) has also played a role in the decline of our country's ability to compete on a worldwide basis, you are certainly welcome to do so.

Just thought this one was about unions thas all...............

So, CD, You're saying that because I knew how to do my job the day I was hired means I never have to expend my own time/money/effort to learn to do it better over my career?

Union or Non-Union I suspect that anyone who with an ounce of ambition that wants to get ahead or stay in a career they enjoy takes it upon themselves to stay on top of their game regardless of who pays. If not it's only a matter of time until you're history and rightfully so.

Excellent article.

I've said before that America can only survive a so called "free trade" enviorment if everyone is required to play by the same rules. Even then it will be difficult for American manufacturing to overcome the disadvantages which are presented by the fact that our foreign competition pays slave wages for their labor.

Couple that with the foreign currency manipulation and it's no wonder that American manufacturing is declining at a breakneck pace.

Allowing China to impose their standard of living on the American working and middle class isn't in the best interest of the American people,.... and the current global trade policies of our government will produce exactly that result.

The even playing field....

manufacturing prospers overseas due to no pollution regulations. They are in their industrial revolution and are years away from having destroyed their environment enough to implement environmental controls.

An environmental impact tax on imports would level the playing field and put away enough to clean up the mess they are now making.

See, here we are, right back to Deming again.

Bad english notwithstanding (again), that myth has long been put to rest. Beleive me, I wanted to buy a Tundra, but when I compared it to my current Silverado, the Chevy was a much better deal. Going on 100K plus miles now and except for oil & tires, i haven't had to spend a dime on it. It even has the original brake pads. jorge

Any workforce can throw the union out, all it takes is a vote from the workers. No group is forced to work under union leadership. I fail to understand how anything can be more American than that. Isn't democracy based on majority rule?

Idaho is a "right to work" state. This simply means that each employee of a union shop has the right to opt out of union membership and dues collection. I am only familiar with one company in one industry. In our manufacturing facilities in Idaho, about three percent of the employees have opted out of union dues. They do still expect and receive union representation in grievance matters, as it is against Idaho law to discriminate against nonmembers. For this service, they pay less than ten dollars per month. And they get the same wage and benefits package as are negotiated by union reps.

This union is definitely part and party to the contract as all representatives in the union and negotiators are members of the workforce. The union reps do have a legal adviser which is supplied by the national union, but he has no say in negotiating procedures.

But then this company is far different than most in many other respects. For instance 90% of its management has been promoted up out of the labor force. Our labor contract rewards initiative and intelligence over seniority. The best and the brightest are the first promoted within the labor force and they are also the ones moved on to management positions.

djmbow says:

Tell me jorge, do you ever wonder where that ear piercing screech is coming from every time you have to put both feet on the brake pedal and push as hard as you can to get that Silverado to stop?


Just kiddin'-------------100K on original brake pads has got to be a new Guinness world record though, don't cha think?

I thought I was doing well having to replace mine at 70K <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

100K on a chevy! And you are impressed? A good rig is just getting broken in well at 100K! I know whereof I speak, as I have only purchased a couple of rigs in my life which had less than 100K on them at purchase.

I have owned many vehicles built by Ford, Dodge, GM, Toyota and Mazda. They have covered model years from 65 through 99. The 99 Blazer has been the most expensive vehicle I ever purchased and has had the highest maintenance costs of any rig. I purchased it in 03 at 65K. It has about 135K on it today and I have put over 7000 dollars into maintenance on the rig without touching the engine, transmission or the interior panels which are falling off of the chassis.

I surely wish I had made Momma wait until I found her a good 4-Runner. None of my American built vehicles have ever held a candle to the Toyota or the Mazda for durability or toughness.

That is exactly why the American consumer started buying autos of Japanese construction in the 70's and continues to do so in record numbers today. Even though many of those Japanese vehicles are built today in America, by American workers, they are still built to the standards demanded by the hierarchy of Japanese management.

The only thing my domestic vehicles have ever done better than an import is pull a 15000 lb trailer or haul a heavy load. I don't care whether it is a Dodge, Ford, or Chevy, Detroit can not be beat in this regard.

Let us know when that Chevy reaches twenty five years and 300K without the valve covers being lifted. Then I will be impressed.

"100K on a chevy! And you are impressed"?



NO! but as I said in my post, I am impressed with 100K on the original brake pads.

Unless it's all long distance, open country driving, that's damn impressive.