Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Anyone choosing unleaded bullets for meat safety?

Right. Just like those exposed to asbestos "for years". Some die, but more end up screwed up to one degree or the other.

The gold detectors I use can pick a shotgun pellet in about 4" to 6" of meat.

Asbestos is a completely different material. While traces of lead can separate from a chunk of lead while traveling though flesh, asbestos does not. What the asbestos fiber does is to travel through flesh like a needle (for example), or travel in the blood stream after piercing though a blood vessel's wall, or just get stuck on the lungs and other body organs. Lead effects you central nervous system as a lot of poisons and other chemical compounds do.

By the way, it takes a long term exposure to asbestos (you have to ingest a lot of fibers for a long time such as the ship builder did during WWII). But a fiber here and there is not going to do much harm to you. According to some sources there has been a decline of asbestos-related death and sickness in recent years, but that may be because most of the people who got sick from it are already dead ? (who knows). There is a chance to ingest some asbestos fibers when you do heavy equipment brake work if you don't wear a respirator, or if you don't use the proper vacuum cleaner. Asbestos is still used in the brake lining of large trucks and heavy equipment.

The problem is many of the particles are so small and X ray doesn't even pic them up.

I had colleague of mine die of peritoneal mesothelioma at age 40. He was a upper level manager and never got out in the field much. Some guys can suck asbestos in their whole lives and not miss a beat. Others cant. As with lead I would rather not take my chances and I have been exposed to both for the last decade due to my job. I also have always taken every precaution to protect myself.
I would be very suprised if asbestos is still used in brake linings. With all the asbestos related litigation companies in industry steer very clear of anything with asbestos in it.

According to the teacher in my last Asbestos refresher class a month ago, asbestos is still used in clutches and the brake lining of of industrial heavy equipment such as graders, loaders, and so on.
http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/blog/2016/05/is-asbestos-use-legal-in-the-united-states.shtml

It's very possible to unknowingly breath asbestos fibers that separate from the spray-on asbestos insulation materials in the building once the fibers get in the ventilation system. The rules are very strict for schools and other public buildings, however.

By the way, copper is toxic to fish, so maybe we should switch to 14KT gold bullets

The company I last worked for would not allow any asbestos on site and we ran Cat dozers,scrapers,loaders, etc.
I'm sure some Chinese stuff still contains it, but it's been phased out for 20 years from most products.
When copper and fish toxicity are talked about its copper sulfate that's the toxin, not pure copper as found in bullets. Besides comparing copper tp a power neuro toxin like lead is silly.

Hey John, do you think it's a good time to discuss the risks associated with mercury levels in fish & seafood ?

That's where the real issue lies.



Buncha tinfoil hats !

Nah, all you need to do is smear sun screen on your eyeballs!

"Lead accumulates, and it is not readily excreted."

Not so sure I agree with that and I'll get back to this in a bit.

Since the age of eleven, I have hunted mostly deer, some birds and a few elk and all but five of the elk were killed with lead bullets, mostly cup and core type but 17 deer with home cast lead bullets in the 30-30. I was taught bullet casting early on starting at 16 doing it full time in my spare time. Probably averaged out 100+ cast for every jacketed bullets. Casting area was unventilated. In the mid 60's worked part time for a commercial bullet caster along with several others in a small unventilated room and two pot going per caster. One being used while the other was melting the next batch. Left that job in 1968 when I left California for good but continued casting until this dad. I'll hit my 8th Decade next year. Probably gorges on paint chips as a toddler too. Blood serum tests have always shown below average number lower than considered average for a person in my age group. A more thorough test showed me as being at the lower level of average for my age group.

Now I'll address this, "Lead accumulates, and it is not readily excreted." Certain juices are known to help in the removal of lead and other metals from the body. Orange juice is one and even when I was a kid I'd rather drink OJ than soda pop. Still do to this day. When I did the thorough test they asked what I was doing and they came to the conclusion it was the OJ that helped keeping lead levels down a bit. They also told me that any fruit juice with citric acid would work if you prefer lemonade or grapefruit juice.

The only rifle I've used a copper bullet in is my .35 Whelen and even that came about more by accident than anything else. Fantastic elk slayer. What little I've done with monometal bullets in a .257 Bob, three 7x57s and a .280 Remington have been dismal so far. Two to three inch groups do not float my boat. I'll play with what I have left and see if things improve. If so fine, if not, I never really planned to make the switch anyway. People been killing critters with lead bullet for over 400 years and I've never heard of people dropping from ingested lead. Methinks the greenie ecofreaks protesteth too much.

Those that wish to go to all copper because they feel it's safer for their children is fine with me. Guess it pays to try and be as safe as possible. All I will say is that my four kids ate a lot of venison and they are all but one doing just fine. The other one passed from stage four cancer which has nothing to do with lead toxicity.

Paul B.

I haven't read the whole thread but ...

Has there ever been a study of hunters and their families to test lead levels in people who eat a lot of game meat, and or birds, shot with lead?

Does anyone know of anybody who suffered from lead poising, in any degree, from lead bullets or shot?









FWIW, at my age I'm not worried about switching to a lead free diet.

Not to disagree with you, but asbestos is still used on the brake lining of industrial heavy equipment. CA tried to ban it in 1999, but I don't think that it succeeded. Look at the EPA list that was published or revised in 2016 for the products not banned:
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/us-federal-bans-asbestos

In relation to copper/gold and fish, I was just having fun. That said, all metals can be harmful to fish and humans. All depends on the amount of ingestion.

The only article I have seen on the subject: https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/lead-wild-game-meat

Apologies if this link has already been posted. Most of the other articles floating around have been based on the data cited in this one.

Just because they can use asbestos, doesn't mean they do. There are no active asbestos mines in the country, the liability is huge and like I mentioned Cat specifically hasn't used it for years.

BWalker, not trying to argue with you, but I hold two licenses, one for Asbestos abatement, and the other for lead paint. And no, I usually don't abate any of those materials, but it's a requirement at the place I work at. Asbestos mining is actively done on Canada and South Africa. Perhaps in your workplace asbestos shoes and pads aren't used. The problem is that not all brake shoes and pads are made in the US. Also, did you look at the EPA list of asbestos-containing products that are not banned? Did you notice "brake and clutch: linings"? Again that EPA report was revised or published in 2016

Again:
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/us-federal-bans-asbestos
Examples of asbestos-containing products not banned
The manufacture, importation, processing and distribution in commerce of these products, as well as some others not listed, are not banned.
Cement corrugated sheet
Cement flat sheet
Clothing
Pipeline wrap
Roofing felt
Vinyl floor tile
Cement shingle
Millboard
Cement pipe
Automatic transmission components
Clutch facings
Friction materials
Disk brake pads
Drum brake linings
Brake blocks
Gaskets
Non-roofing coatings
Roof coatings
Top of Page[quote][/quote]

Again, just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's used. And asbestos hasn't been mined in Canada in at least five years.
There was a legal case maybe ten years ago where Cat, Honeywell and another company that slips my mind where sued over asbestos exposure. Cat testified in that suit that the discontinued asbestos in 1989 or there abouts. You can look it up if you like.
And I have been involved in abatement projects that coat over 10 million dollars.
The liability is simply too high for.companoes tp mess with it anymore given that there are alternatives.
The other thing is even back in the mid 70's asbestos wasn't that common. The last steam plant I worked at was built in 1974 and had very little while the plant next to it built in the early 60's had tons of it.

While the asbestos mine in Canada closed around 2012, asbestos in brake pads and shoes and the other "no-banned" products in the EPA list are to be banned in Canada by 2018. I have worked in the business of lead and asbestos abatement since 1995, and know very well that after a banning takes place, it takes a few years for the products to be faced out. Don't believe for a minuted that some floor tiles and other products that are on the EPA NOT banned list aren't imported to the USA and sold locally.

In relation to copper versus lead-containing bullets, at the moment it has been decided that copper is safer than lead. But it does not mean that in the future copper at certain levels will be considered safe. Thus my comments about metals such as gold that do not tarnish, in relation to copper which does.

The only thing one can do is to take the usual precautions relating to lead-containing bullets and lead in general. Just don't go out there and continue sucking chunks of lead, and remove the meat around the bullet hole or fragment. Also, if you shoot indoors all the time, make sure that the air in shooting facility is filtered in accordance to the EPA standards relating to indoors shooting ranges. The precautions are common sense stuff we have no need to argue about. In fact, if you are so concerned about lead versus copper and have no concerns about the foods in plastic containers you eat each day, or about the poisons you breath indoors, then there is nothing anybody can say.

My last comments on this subject just took place