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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041 |
Today I sent some 225 Nosler Accubonds down a Ruger 77 at 2,950 burning 75.0 of RL23.
No signs of pressure
Win brass CCI Mag primer
That's a good load SU. I don't run my 338 that hot, here's about what I get in cold weather: Averages around 2,860 fps, but damn accurate.... I do like the Hodgdon H4350 powder in the 338 for sure. I haven't been able to locate any RL23 around here, or I may think about trying it in my old rifle....:
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,465
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,465 |
That kind of accuracy is great! good for you.
No way of knowing target accuracy for RL23 as right now as I'm using NECG open sights on the Ruger, no scope.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303 |
I’d like to see how RL16 runs. Seems very 4350 like in speeds and such and is touted to be pretty stable. I’m looking forward to working with it more in the future. Some of my first loads with 180 Accubonds and the 30-06 looked promising. I sorta got tired waiting on H4350.
Great points by all of ya, thank you.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
I gave up on "waiting for H4350," partly because as I get, ah, more mature I'm not as willing to continually search for scare components or ammo, which is about the only way to find them. And even when you find some, if it's something you use a lot (whether H4350 or .17 Mach 2 ammo) then it's only a relatively short while until you're looking again.
Which is why I quit shooting ground squirrels with my CZ .17 M2 and sold it, along with what ammo I had left, and why I started trying substitutes for H4350. Right now the leader is IMR4451, partly because it's so similar to H4350 the data is almost interchangeable. In fact Hodgdon's on-line data lists the maximum loads for 225-grain bullets in the .338 as 69.5 grains for H4350 and 69.4 for IMR4451, with an 8 fps difference in muzzle velocity. Have also thoroughly tested IMR4451 in cold temperatures and it's just as stable as H4350, but contains a decoppering agent, which is nice for extended shooting sessions. So far it's been H4350's equal in every load tried. The only occasions when there's been a difference in accuracy, 4451 has been slightly more accurate.
Started using RL-23 just last year, but so far am impressed as well. It's not quite as available as IMR4451, but far more so than H4350. Finally found some RL-16 this summer, but have only tried it in one cartridge so far, the 6.5 Creedmoor. It gets great velocity but so far accuracy hasn't been as good as with 4451.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041 |
I'll have to check the availability of IMR4451. I've been lucky over the past 3 months and found 6 pounds of H4350, but like others have said it's damn hard to find. If there's a powder out there that's just as good and a lot easier to find, I'm going to be all over that. Like beretzs said, good info here... Thanks
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
bsa,
Except for maybe 2-3 months earlier this year, after all the new 6.5 Creedmoor shooters "discovered" 4451, it's been very available. Some people like to buy in local stores, instead of off the Internet, and I see it frequently the half-dozen local stores I visit.
But I mostly buy 8-pounders off the Internet, and even during the brief break in availability earlier this year my supply never dropped to the point it has with H4350. I was down to maybe 10 pounds before ordering some more a couple months ago, and these days I use 4451 in just about all the cartridges where I used to use H4350, and continually experiment with it in more, partly for articles and partly for my own use. So I'm using a LOT.
Do still have a few pounds of H4350, but about the only reason I keep some on hand anymore is to include it in articles about handloading a certain cartridge, for the readers who still have some, or are still desperately searching. I'm outta that game.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041 |
Thanks JB. That 4451 looks very promising. I'm going to be on the look out for some locally.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
I bet you like it. If you decide you do and want more, Internet ordering 8-pounders usually results in prices at least as good as brick-and-mortar stores, even with the hazmat fee--which many have been reducing or even eliminating lately, at least temporarily.
I just checked the five websites where I order most reloading stuff. None had H4350, but only one didn't have IMR4451.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735 |
John- is R23 a "sort of" replacement for R22, only more temp stable? How does it com[pare to R22?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
The burn-rate is similar, but not exactly the same. Like all powders, burn-rate will vary slightly with specific loads.
In my limited temp-tests so far it's been very good. Last I tested a bunch of powders and bullets in my special-run Tikka Superlite .260 Remington from Whittaker Guns, and the all-around winner (for my purposes anyway) was the 140 Nosler Accubond with a max load of RL-23. Very similar results from 70 to zero, both in accuracy and velocity (in fact it was a little faster at zero) and of course it worked very well in the field.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,617
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,617 |
John, how does the 4451 compare to IMR 4350?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
In most cartridges the load data is very close, if not identical. Of course, both will vary slightly from lot to lot, but so far the 4451 loads I've ended up with are no more than half a grain different than the H4350 loads in the same rifle with the same bullet, case and primer.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,146
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,146 |
In most cartridges the load data is very close, if not identical. Of course, both will vary slightly from lot to lot, but so far the 4451 loads I've ended up with are no more than half a grain different than the H4350 loads in the same rifle with the same bullet, case and primer. That's interesting MD.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
Should have mentioned that over the years I've found H4350 and IMR4350 to produce very similar results--but again, IMR4350 can vary from lot to lot.
In other words, there's a LOT of overlap between all three powders.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735 |
Thanks, I just picked up a LB of R23 and another LB of H4831sc Saturday. I have shot a lot of R22 from magnums down to the .224 TTH and only had a slight issue at warmer temps, none at colder ( that I could tell, of course :))
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,465
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,465 |
To those interested.
Nosler 180 AB IMR 4451 76.0 grains 3,205
Nosler 200 AB RL 23 75.0 grains 2,996 mv
Nosler 225 AB RL 26 76.0 grains 2,824 mv
Nosler 250 Partition RL 22 75.0 2,830 mv
Nosler 250 Partition RL 23 75.0 2,726 mv
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,041 |
In most cartridges the load data is very close, if not identical. Of course, both will vary slightly from lot to lot, but so far the 4451 loads I've ended up with are no more than half a grain different than the H4350 loads in the same rifle with the same bullet, case and primer. That's interesting MD. Sounds pretty damn good to me. Now I just need to find some of that stuff!!!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 175
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 175 |
Checked my notes and I'm getting 2850 on the nose with 73.5gr of R19 with a cci200 from my 26 inch Winchester 70 at 61 degrees. Easy on brass
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,303 |
To those interested.
Nosler 180 AB IMR 4451 76.0 grains 3,205
Nosler 200 AB RL 23 75.0 grains 2,996 mv
Nosler 225 AB RL 26 76.0 grains 2,824 mv
Nosler 250 Partition RL 22 75.0 2,830 mv
Nosler 250 Partition RL 23 75.0 2,726 mv
Great info! That’s about what I saw with 26. It was really good with 250’s.
Semper Fi
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