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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62 |
I really like the Buffalo Bore Ammo loading of their 150 grain hard cast wadcutters for carry in my snub nose 38 specials Yep.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3 |
"Revolvers don't jam". That is a quote from a Chicago cop that got into the elevator with me wearing two revolvers after I asked him why he didn't carry a semi-auto? For me carrying all the time just isn't comfortable with any kind of holster that I've tried. If I'm going somewhere where the threat level is higher, then sure I can deal with the lump in my lap. Some interesting stuff in that CCW laundry list of dos and don'ts. You can't shoot in defense of property. I guess that means that if a guy is leaving with your TV that you just say have a nice day. We had a defense lawyer talking to the group and there had been a situation there recently where a guy was car jacked and shot at his own vehicle in an effort to disable it from being stolen. Can't do that was the answer because shooting at any vehicle, even your own, is a class 2 felony.
The bad part is that when they do, they usually are not even remotely as easy to bring back into action as compared to typical malfunctions in a modern semi auto service weapon.Revolvers have their attributes, and I am a big fan of the J Frames, but they can and do jam, and generally speaking are not nearly as reliable when it comes to high volume shooting, between cleanings. In fact the weekend before last I was at a friend's who is a well known trainer in the industry. A social/shoot was being held and we were all shooting revolvers. I initially was running my rather tight 4" Model 19-3. However the trigger became extremely hard to pull and the cylinder was having a hard time rotating. Long story short, there was enough carbon built up in various places that is was affecting the advancement/action. Fortunately my friend has no shortage of cool guns, so he produced a rather cool 4" Round Butt K Frame that had been worked over by Wayne Novak. .  Perfectly stated... One time I had a jammed cylinder with my Freedom Arms M97 in .327 Federal.. And because the design of the cylinder actually shrouds the rims of the cartridges it took a while to get it apart and clear the problem...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,487 |
Didn't someone on this board mention that there had been an inordinate number of problems with the LCR in 9mm???? IIRC, a significant number of manufacturers don't crimp the bullets enough and the high velocity combined with the light weight of the pistol was allowing bullet-creap and locking up the cylinder. There's no "immediate action" drill to fix that in a gunfight.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3 |
I think so too. Have it loaded with hollow based wadcutters, reversed. What you guys think of that, have heard both pro and con,but they flatten out about the size of a nickel in wet newspaper. I think if you are ever attacked by wet newsprint, you are in business. That's funny right there.....
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3 |
Didn't someone on this board mention that there had been an inordinate number of problems with the LCR in 9mm???? IIRC, a significant number of manufacturers don't crimp the bullets enough and the high velocity combined with the light weight of the pistol was allowing bullet-creap and locking up the cylinder. There's no "immediate action" drill to fix that in a gunfight. Sure there is....pull out your other gun. A lot of guys I know in the Soldiering /LEO/ Gunfight business have a BUG no matter what they're carrying as a primary, even if they are on a grocery run.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
I think so too. Have it loaded with hollow based wadcutters, reversed. What you guys think of that, have heard both pro and con,but they flatten out about the size of a nickel in wet newspaper. I think if you are ever attacked by wet newsprint, you are in business. That's funny right there..... It would be funnier if it werent true. All the nonsense about wadcutters right side up, backward, or inside out is just silliness with literally dozens of modern, proven choices in defensive ammo easily available. Many of these are designed expressly for snub revolvers.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4 |
My snubby is in my non dominant front pocket each day, and a hand casually placed in a front pocket does not draw attention from most people. With just a modicum of situational awareness, combined with a proper pocket holster and pants with pockets that are conducive to pocket carry, it really is not hard to produce a J Frame from a pocket and get hits on target in under 2 seconds, with just a little practice. Of course that means you actually have to practice, and not just talk about it.
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My J Frame is very rarely a primary gun. Its role is as a second/BUG, but every now and then it has to serve the role as primary. Not ideal, but there are times and places where options are limited. Around the house when I may not be carrying a regular carry piece, the J Frame works quite well in the pocket for answering the door/managing unknown contacts. If there is not time to tuck my regular CCW type pistol under my shirt, I simply slide a hand into my non dominant pocket and answer the door.
This pretty well sums it up for me.........the J-Frame has it's place pretty much full time. I 'still' need to add LGs, though. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,593 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,593 Likes: 3 |
To answer the original question asked.
The answer is No, nothing wrong with it.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
To answer the original question asked.
The answer is No, nothing wrong with it.
Thats not really true at all...there is a lot wrong with it. The question is, is there enough wrong with it to make it not worthwhile?
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,126 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,126 Likes: 10 |
Like everything else, it's a compromise.
If you go that route, understand the advantages and disadvantages, and work within them.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62 |
Like everything else, it's a compromise.
If you go that route, understand the advantages and disadvantages, and work within them. The advantage is that you have a firearm available to you. The disadvantage is that in the majority of cases where a self-defense handgun would be useful (i.e., where you have no useful degree of warning), you won't be able to get it into action fast enough to make a difference. Sometimes you will, though, so it's far from useless, and far better than being unarmed. If that's good enough for you, then go for it. Otherwise, figure out a way to carry on your belt.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
Could not agree more. The only thing worse than pocket carry is not carrying at all.....and in a scenario where those are the only two options, the right choice is evident. In reality, however, most who pocket carry do so out of laziness. For these, the pistol is a talisman more than a tool. With a negligible amount of research and investment, a more effective method of carry can be found. For most, however, the type of pistol they are willing to carry makes pocket carry as good as any.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,632 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,632 Likes: 4 |
And many pocket carry simply out of practicality. I daily have the need to shed my carry gun in a public place where I don't wanna get undressed to do so. And when I do get inside I'm gonna change clothes in a large busy locker room where the sight of an IWB holster would cause problems.
For the quick draw guys who often see scenarios where they have no lead time on a potential or actual threat my advice is to adjust your threat sensors.
Last edited by johnw; 10/26/17.
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,923
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,923 |
What is a better option than a pocket holster with one condition, the person does not want to wear two shirts, a jacket, vest or coat?
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
For the quick draw guys who often see scenarios where they have no lead time on a potential or actual threat my advice is to adjust your threat sensors.
Unfortunately, real life disagrees. But carry on.. What is a better option than a pocket holster with one condition, the person does not want to wear two shirts, a jacket, vest or coat? I dont know what kind of holsters youve tried.....but I can conceal a M&9c just fine under nothing more than a T-shirt....Buy quality junk, and carry a decent fighting gun. Or dont....
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,023 Likes: 62 |
And many pocket carry simply out of practicality. I daily have the need to shed my carry gun in a public place where I don't wanna get undressed to do so. And when I do get inside I'm gonna change clothes in a large busy locker room where the sight of an IBW holster would cause problems.
For the quick draw guys who often see scenarios where they have no lead time on a potential or actual threat my advice is to adjust your threat sensors. Such scenarios are being recorded everyday by security cams and cell phones. The data is overwhelming that the majority of self-defense situations with a concealed carry gun involve the sudden appearance of the threat, leaving little time for fiddling with something in a pants pocket. It's not a Walter Mitty fantasy.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,532 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,532 Likes: 1 |
What is a better option than a pocket holster with one condition, the person does not want to wear two shirts, a jacket, vest or coat? An untucked shirt would be the best option, not always possible.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,922
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,922 |
I'm not a big advocate of pocket carry...especially pants pocket. That said, over the last two years have been pocket carrying a Kahr P380 when I would normally have been unarmed, like mowing the lawn, working in the yard and when I was doing construction work for a friend when wearing gun on the beltline just wasn't practical. Otherwise I have a Commander on me all the time.
For those of you who pocket carry all the time, have you actually practiced drawing from the pocket while seatbelted in a car from both the drivers and passenger positions? Have you sat at your dining room table and practiced surreptitiously getting your gun into play while an imaginary robbery is going on. I've run courses and practice sessions using those scenarios and can tell you that getting a gun out of a pocket is not as easy as standing around. If you look over over on YouTube and Liveleak at actual carjackings they all too often go down in seconds and would be hard enough to get a gun out of a holster let alone a pocket fast enough to dissuade someone from continuing the attack.
And being bad enough while stopped, try getting your gun out of your pocket while the car is moving, especially if trying to evade someone...
Like Mackay, when I was in LE I carried a backup gun on the leg, but in a leg holster not one on the ankle. Eagle Industries used to make a model called the UAH which held the gun upside down on the support side leg. And no I never worried about shooting myself with a snubbie while carrying it like that. I ran many foot chases with that rig and never had the gun come loose. In addition I also carried a High Standard Derringer clipped to the body armor under the right arm.
One of my female students carried her snubbie in an ankle holster. I was concerned but didn't say anything about as it worked for her and she always had the gun with her when wearing pants. One night as she was entering her apartment she was grabbed from behind and forced face down onto the floor inside the door. The attacker duct taped her eyes and mouth and then turned her over duct taping her hands in front of her and then pulled her pants down to her knees. The attacker then realized the door was still open and got off her to close it...at which time my student drew her gun and fired five shots at the doorway... She never hit him but he never returned either... They never caught the attacker.
Have three friends who pocket carry all the time. One is retired and carries a Model 42 in a soft pocket holster. The other two carry a Kahr P380 and a Diamondback 9mm only because they don't want to be unarmed and are not supposed to be carrying where they work.
I can remember two posts over on one of the other Boards from members who had gone from a full size gun to pocket carry. One guy was a retired LEO who always carried SIG of some kind. He bought I believe a KelTec .32 and soon announced that it had become his primary. A few months later he posted a message on how he had been "in the city" early one morning with his wife with little traffic around when two guys in a pickup tried to force him off the road in an industrial area of town. He was able to evade them but after it was over he pulled over to just breath again and looking at his wife he suddenly realized that if things had gone bad the only thing between the badguys and his wife was a .32... He said he always still carries the .32 but had gone back to always carrying his SIG also.
The other was a guy who had a storage unit down the street from his house in a "nice part of town". Since it was in a "nice part of town" he ran down there to get something one day carrying only his KelTec .32 in his pocket instead of his 1911 that he had been carrying less and less because it "wasn't convenient". He was in the storage unit when a badguy entered with a gun and held him up. The badguy searched his pockets and found the KelTec and then kept asking him "..are you a cop...are you a cop?" The guy was forced into his storage unit and thought he was going to be killed (and probably would have been if the badguy had found a badge) but the robber then left. The poster said if he had been carrying his 1911 in the IWB holster he always used the BG would have never found it...he said he was going back to the 1911... The amazing thing is within a few months the guy is posting looking for suggestions of smaller guns as the 1911 just "wasn't convenient"...
All I can say about pocket carry is don't fool yourself...know the limitations and PRACTICE under realistic rather than ideal conditions...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,922
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,922 |
What is a better option than a pocket holster with one condition, the person does not want to wear two shirts, a jacket, vest or coat? It will depend of your build and the size of gun you want to carry... I have on many occasions while wearing a dress shirt unbuttoned two buttons and slipped a 1911 or snibbie behind my left hip butt forward. Blouse the shirt slightly at the waist to break up the outline of the gun. I have worn a Commander that way to many weddings that I have taken my sport coat off and no one ever noticed. Just watch out who and how you hug someone... But realistically you have to dress to the gun... Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
I haven't found any issues concealing this with anything more than an untucked shirt. ![[Linked Image]](http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/3/4/4/344100033/9841091612_3166ACEF42B6F68595728F6225C6DC9B.jpg) I figure with 9mm +P I've got enough gun to be worth carrying.
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