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Is it possible to respectfully discuss something here like grown men? ….You must be new to the Handgun Forum….. :-) Yeah, where's the fun in that?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about.
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FN 5.7 is the best carry gun ever made. Jeeesus Christ? You must have one.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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FreeMe and cooper57m, you are both correct.
I stated that in this particular event, there would have been time to load. It is not what I would have done, but it could have been done, due to the wall acting as concealment (not cover). I said this was a bad example of why it had to be ready to fire at the instant. (It could not have been used instantly.) By the time you could get to a vantage point and able to find your target, there was plenty of time to insert a mag and rack a round. (Again, not my method).
If he had entered the church first, the responder would be a dead man.
Now, I'm done arguing with someone who can't understand timing. I can run a split second shot clock for a radio station and make it sound natural, (dead air is a career killer). You have to think ahead, and muscle memory plays a big role. But you can't do things in the wrong sequence, or it is completely wrong. Timing matters.
In this particular event, there was time to load, without effecting the outcome.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,653 Likes: 14 |
The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about. If you are not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, you should not have a 1911 to begin with.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yes, Kellory - except for this... If he had entered the church first, the responder would be a dead man. Maybe - maybe not. If he was dead, it makes no difference. But if he wasn't among the first few shots or if he was only wounded, there might have been time to react effectively. We can speculate all day on the "ifs" - but adding an another step to deploying the pistol does what it does.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about. Actually, if you go on Galco's website and look at Q&A's, they will tell you not to do that. Additionally, they say using a holster without a retention strap to go by your gun manufacture's recommendation. With Colt, that means cocked and locked is okay. I have no idea why they recommend that. They will not tell why either. I have asked them.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yes, Kellory - except for this... If he had entered the church first, the responder would be a dead man. Maybe - maybe not. If he was dead, it makes no difference. But if he wasn't among the first few shots or if he was only wounded, there might have been time to react effectively. We can speculate all day on the "ifs" - but adding an another step to deploying the pistol does what it does. I think you have missed my point. The defender, with an empty gun, would be useless if the attacker came straight into the church. Only because the attack started from outside and shielded, was there time to load.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yes it was a serious question. Thanks for answering. Why don't you just use the safety?
I use the safeties on my 1911 and other carry weapons when target shooting. For Condition 3 carry, the safeties are worse than superfluous - safety on in Condition Three is counter productive. As I've stated before, Carrying in Condition Three allows me to use the same procedures for any of my autoloaders. No need to think about safety up or safety down (or no safety at all, as is the case with my Beretta), no possibility that an extended safety will catch and move into the off position, no fumbling with a small flat safety. Every condition of carry has its advantages and disadvantages. There has never been an AD/ND with a gun in Condition Three, while there have been many with Condition One. I've made the determination that Three is adequate for more than 99% of my carry time and it comes with the advantage of much higher safety during that time.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yes it was a serious question. Thanks for answering. Why don't you just use the safety?
I use the safeties on my 1911 and other carry weapons when target shooting. For Condition 3 carry, the safeties are worse than superfluous - safety on in Condition Three is counter productive. As I've stated before, Carrying in Condition Three allows me to use the same procedures for any of my autoloaders. No need to think about safety up or safety down (or no safety at all, as is the case with my Beretta), no possibility that an extended safety will catch and move into the off position, no fumbling with a small flat safety. Every condition of carry has its advantages and disadvantages. There has never been an AD/ND with a gun in Condition Three, while there have been many with Condition One. I've made the determination that Three is adequate for more than 99% of my carry time and it comes with the advantage of much higher safety during that time. Thanks again. I just wasn't clear up front what the thumb had to do with anything.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Yes it was a serious question. Thanks for answering. Why don't you just use the safety?
I use the safeties on my 1911 and other carry weapons when target shooting. For Condition 3 carry, the safeties are worse than superfluous - safety on in Condition Three is counter productive. As I've stated before, Carrying in Condition Three allows me to use the same procedures for any of my autoloaders. No need to think about safety up or safety down (or no safety at all, as is the case with my Beretta), no possibility that an extended safety will catch and move into the off position, no fumbling with a small flat safety. Every condition of carry has its advantages and disadvantages. There has never been an AD/ND with a gun in Condition Three, while there have been many with Condition One. I've made the determination that Three is adequate for more than 99% of my carry time and it comes with the advantage of much higher safety during that time. Outside of Israel (because it's the law), you're typically not going to find much love for C3 carry. Sure it's safety foolproof, especially if you have your gun taken away, but it's unnecessarily slow and complex. Still, if that's what you're comfortable with, then it's a whole lot better than being unarmed. Train well, be safe, and let's hope none of us ever need it.
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Campfire Regular
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And all this is why I like a double action or at least a double action-like striker fired for most self defense situations. Just pull the trigger with some degree of force, that force likely go unnoticed in a situation where it needed to be pulled. But not likely to go off by a oops I touched the trigger while deholstering or the trigger caught on the inside of my pocket and went off. I know this never happens though, right...
I remember the first time I handled a shield, I thought, dang that trigger sure is light. To me it would almost be like carrying condition 1 in a single action with the safety off. Which for me is usually only common practice when hunting with a rifle or shotgun in my hands and not slung over my shoulder.
I like a single action for hunting or target shooting though. And I think a striker fired pistol with a light short trigger is probably safer for open carry than it is for concealed, for me. Because I like one in the chamber unless it's in storage.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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FreeMe and cooper57m, you are both correct.
I stated that in this particular event, there would have been time to load. It is not what I would have done, but it could have been done, due to the wall acting as concealment (not cover). I said this was a bad example of why it had to be ready to fire at the instant. (It could not have been used instantly.) By the time you could get to a vantage point and able to find your target, there was plenty of time to insert a mag and rack a round. (Again, not my method).
If he had entered the church first, the responder would be a dead man.
Now, I'm done arguing with someone who can't understand timing. I can run a split second shot clock for a radio station and make it sound natural, (dead air is a career killer). You have to think ahead, and muscle memory plays a big role. But you can't do things in the wrong sequence, or it is completely wrong. Timing matters.
In this particular event, there was time to load, without effecting the outcome. Instead of loading your gun, that should have been loaded to begin with one should use that time to access the situation.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,418
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
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The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about. If you are not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, you should not have a 1911 to begin with. Another worthless comment.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,256
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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Yes it was a serious question. Thanks for answering. Why don't you just use the safety?
I use the safeties on my 1911 and other carry weapons when target shooting. For Condition 3 carry, the safeties are worse than superfluous - safety on in Condition Three is counter productive. As I've stated before, Carrying in Condition Three allows me to use the same procedures for any of my autoloaders. No need to think about safety up or safety down (or no safety at all, as is the case with my Beretta), no possibility that an extended safety will catch and move into the off position, no fumbling with a small flat safety. Every condition of carry has its advantages and disadvantages. There has never been an AD/ND with a gun in Condition Three, while there have been many with Condition One. I've made the determination that Three is adequate for more than 99% of my carry time and it comes with the advantage of much higher safety during that time. You'd be more believable if you'd just admit that you aren't confident and comfortable with condition 1 and leave it at that. The mental gymnastics that you take to rationalize C3 are just so much confirmation bias. What you are talking about makes about as much sense as carrying a DA revolver with the first-up chamber (as opposed to chamber under the hammer) empty to avoid an AD.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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No one has seen fit to answer my question about XD yet, but no matter. This thing has turned ridiculous, with a bunch of guys claiming a"right" and "wrong" way for another guy to carry his gun. Are you people retarded? How many different pairs of pants do you have (the answer better be one)? How many jackets (again, correct answer is one). There is only one set of conditions, and we are all exactly the same, so there is only ONE RIGHT ANSWER. Idiots. Why do I even bother?
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about. Actually, if you go on Galco's website and look at Q&A's, they will tell you not to do that. Additionally, they say using a holster without a retention strap to go by your gun manufacture's recommendation. With Colt, that means cocked and locked is okay. I have no idea why they recommend that. They will not tell why either. I have asked them. Apparently DeSantis doesn't see it that way. Link failed. Midway shows a DeSantis Thumb Break Mad Max holster for the 1911 with the thumb break employed as I described. I didn't think I was crazy or scared of Condition 1 carry. Read link below. https://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/ad_tb.htm
Last edited by cooper57m; 01/12/18.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,256 |
No one has seen fit to answer my question about XD yet, but no matter. This thing has turned ridiculous, with a bunch of guys claiming a"right" and "wrong" way for another guy to carry his gun. Are you people retarded? How many different pairs of pants do you have (the answer better be one)? How many jackets (again, correct answer is one). There is only one set of conditions, and we are all exactly the same, so there is only ONE RIGHT ANSWER. Idiots. Why do I even bother? The one I see accusing people of being idiots here is you. There is no reason why any of us shouldn't discuss our reasons for what we do or think others should consider. Disagreement makes people think. Thinking people often change their minds through lively debate. Like many of us here, I am not afraid to have my assumptions challenged by logical thought. If debate scares you, this ain't a safe place to be. I'd answer you XD question if I had an answer - but I don't know much specifically about the XD, and don't even remember the question.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I know.
I am unclueful why Galco states that. CYA maybe.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The leather holster for my 1911 has a thumb break strap that fits between the hammer and slide, while cocked and locked. That adds even an additional level of safety comfort. For those not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, it's something to think about. If you are not comfortable carrying cocked and locked, you should not have a 1911 to begin with. Another worthless comment. I’d say he is spot on.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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