|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,170
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,170 |
Buddy called and found me a box of Barnes 35815. 200gr flatbase X for my 358 Winchester. Thinking of pushing it with TAC, MAX LOAD. I've had good results with the 200RN and 52.0 gr with magnum primers. How's this load for expansion? What's the minimum velocity it'll expand. I'm just shooting deer (150-175#) an possibly pigs and black bear.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,184
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,184 |
I just got done shooting the 200g TSX out of my .358. I loaded 51g of TAC per Mule Deer's suggestion since it is a lever action. This with a 22" barrel. For some reason I was only getting 2400fps from this load. The max load MD showed was 52g at over 2700fps. I doubt 1 grain will make a 350fps difference so there must be something else going on.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,583
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,583 |
As per Barnes, their .358's open to:
180gr to 1900fps 200gr to 1800fps 225gr to 1600fps
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
As per Barnes, their .358's open to:
180gr to 1900fps 200gr to 1800fps 225gr to 1600fps Can you confirm that's for the TSX (hollow point) and not the tipped TTSX? I remember the TTSX were supposed to open at lower velocity, but forget the exact details.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,583
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,583 |
As per Barnes, their .358's open to:
180gr to 1900fps 200gr to 1800fps 225gr to 1600fps Can you confirm that's for the TSX (hollow point) and not the tipped TTSX? I remember the TTSX were supposed to open at lower velocity, but forget the exact details. They only make 3 options in .358. What started this all for me was when I emailed them about their .308 168 TTSX and they told me it opens down to 1500 fps. After that, I began emailing for confirmation of every projectile of theirs I shoot. Surprisingly enough, almost every offering they make has a different lower limit. I'm guessing that's partially what leads to their erratic reviews. For example, there was one that was only rated to 2000 fps. I think it was the .243 TTSX, but I'd have to check my emails to confirm. It seems like the ones they anticipate starting at higher MV are toughened up a bit. Based on the .243 example I had as well as the .358 above. Seems like higher the weight (lower expected MV), the "softer" the bullet.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9 |
As per Barnes, their .358's open to:
180gr to 1900fps 200gr to 1800fps 225gr to 1600fps Can you confirm that's for the TSX (hollow point) and not the tipped TTSX? I remember the TTSX were supposed to open at lower velocity, but forget the exact details. They only make 3 options in .358. What started this all for me was when I emailed them about their .308 168 TTSX and they told me it opens down to 1500 fps. After that, I began emailing for confirmation of every projectile of theirs I shoot. Surprisingly enough, almost every offering they make has a different lower limit. I'm guessing that's partially what leads to their erratic reviews. For example, there was one that was only rated to 2000 fps. I think it was the .243 TTSX, but I'd have to check my emails to confirm. It seems like the ones they anticipate starting at higher MV are toughened up a bit. Based on the .243 example I had as well as the .358 above. Seems like higher the weight (lower expected MV), the "softer" the bullet. Or they're all made with the same metal and they just tell people what they want to hear, knowing full well the bullets will work.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,757
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,757 |
Are these Hispanic bullets?
If they are not..........
U are assuming they will work.....
At least on dairy cows
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920 |
I shoot the Barnes X in my 35 Whelen and they will work down to about 1800 at the ranges you are looking at.
I have used IMR-3031 for my rifle,they chrono at 2700fps+-.
They will do a job on what ever you hit with them.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Or they're all made with the same metal and they just tell people what they want to hear, knowing full well the bullets will work.
The material they're made of is only one factor in the equation. Size & depth of the hollow point, depth of petal cuts, bullet diameter, etc all play a role as well. The TTSX for example have a huge hollow point in comparison to the TSX, and does act differently on impact. It's definitely not Barnes just telling people what they want to hear.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
As per Barnes, their .358's open to:
180gr to 1900fps 200gr to 1800fps 225gr to 1600fps Can you confirm that's for the TSX (hollow point) and not the tipped TTSX? I remember the TTSX were supposed to open at lower velocity, but forget the exact details. They only make 3 options in .358. What started this all for me was when I emailed them about their .308 168 TTSX and they told me it opens down to 1500 fps. After that, I began emailing for confirmation of every projectile of theirs I shoot. Surprisingly enough, almost every offering they make has a different lower limit. I'm guessing that's partially what leads to their erratic reviews. For example, there was one that was only rated to 2000 fps. I think it was the .243 TTSX, but I'd have to check my emails to confirm. It seems like the ones they anticipate starting at higher MV are toughened up a bit. Based on the .243 example I had as well as the .358 above. Seems like higher the weight (lower expected MV), the "softer" the bullet. Actually they offer the 200gr in both TSX and TTSX varieties; that's why I asked. Midway .358 BarnesThe 180 is only in TTSX, and the 225 is only TSX.
Last edited by Yondering; 12/13/17.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9 |
[quote=Yondering It's definitely not Barnes just telling people what they want to hear.[/quote]
Yeah, I didn't really think that post thru and word it right. I have so much faith in Barnes I tend not to over analyze them, just trust them to work.
Last edited by Fireball2; 12/14/17.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Gotcha.
I think in some of the slower 35's though it's worth considering minimum expansion velocity. For example, a 35 Rem that might only launch that 200gr at 2,000-2,100 fps won't have a lot of range before it drops below 1800 and won't expand. This is of course talking about loading your own, not buying factory Barnes ammo.
I suspect that 1800 fps number for the 200gr though is for the TSX, the TTSX does open at lower velocity which I think is down to ~1600.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,170
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,170 |
What I have here is older discontinued X.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611 |
I've always wondered the same thing Roy. Whether the copper was tempered or fooled w/on certain bullets. I know the X original had complaints about not opening. I have stuck to the original 90gr X in my 250AI because it's always worked so well. Never found one but boy do they kill Deer. They've always expanded and killed well but I drive them to 3200fps. powdr
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365 |
I've always wondered the same thing Roy. Whether the copper was tempered or fooled w/on certain bullets. I know the X original had complaints about not opening. I have stuck to the original 90gr X in my 250AI because it's always worked so well. Never found one but boy do they kill Deer. They've always expanded and killed well but I drive them to 3200fps. powdr I made some 224 caliber 75gr solid copper bullet and harden them, shot a doe this year right behind the eye, you could of ran a wooden dowel in through both holes, no expansion at all. she had blood pumping out the impact hole, her brain was liquid. so Barnes may harden them for bullets pushed faster
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,370 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,370 Likes: 1 |
The only Barnes bullet I've used on game is the 225 gr. .35 caliber TSX. Five shots, five elk, none of the bullets recovered. Accuracy is excellent.
Been doing some playing with 120 and 140 gr. TSX in the 7x57 and .280 Rem. but so far have not gotten the accuracy I would accept. I haven't decided if I'll continue with those bullets in those rifles. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,935
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,935 |
I have a bunch of the old 200 grain .348 Win's "X's". These have been very good and ironically some of the more accurate "X's" I've used. They also expand into 6 petals, not sure if the .358 ones do as well or not.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I made some 224 caliber 75gr solid copper bullet and harden them, shot a doe this year right behind the eye, you could of ran a wooden dowel in through both holes, no expansion at all. she had blood pumping out the impact hole, her brain was liquid. so Barnes may harden them for bullets pushed faster
How did you "harden" copper bullets?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,365 |
quote]
How did you "harden" copper bullets?[/quote]
tumble it in course media, it's call work hardening.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
You have to actually change dimensions to cause work hardening, at least in the elastic range if not permanent deformation. The best you could do with tumbling or even shot peening is a minor change in surface hardness, which has little to no effect on bullet expansion, and only if you did it enough to dimple the surface. That does nothing for hardening the inside of a copper part.
If you want to harden copper you need to actually work (i.e. deform) the material. Hammer it, squeeze it, form it, etc. I was wondering if you had made a swage setup of some sort to handle solid copper.
Barnes does not "harden" their bullets for different applications, although it's possible they anneal some or all of them after forming. They tune for different velocity ranges by controlling the size and shape of the hollow point and petals.
Last edited by Yondering; 12/15/17.
|
|
|
|
673 members (16gage, 01Foreman400, 160user, 12344mag, 10ring1, 16penny, 65 invisible),
3,026
guests, and
1,317
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,618
Posts18,492,662
Members73,972
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|