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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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I will say this about the dog control vs. gun control argument. If certain types of guns occasionally loaded themselves and then of their own volition decided to randomly shoot innocent people, I would probably be a lot more sympathetic to gun control arguments.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,642 Likes: 20 |
So which government appointee will you folks place in charge of determining for us which breeds are the bad ones that we can't own? Reminds me of the liberals who want to put a government appointee in charge of which guns are "assault weapons," and which aren't. Who suggested that? I missed it. What's the solution, then? Persuasion? Also, Indy seemed to be arguing for it, without actually coming out and putting words to it. Solution? Your dog mauls someone you get thrown in the pit with a few.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,240 Likes: 39 |
"Over 900 U.S. cities have enacted breed-specific legislation. Cities such as Denver, which resides within a state containing a state preemption law, have effectively implemented these laws as well. Appellate courts in fourteen U.S. states, as well as the District of Columbia, have upheld the constitutionality of breed-specific pit bull laws. Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific legislation as well, including: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, Ireland, Australia, and more." https://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dangerous-dogs-state-by-state.phpAnd then there's this, too: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/dog-book/chapter12-3.htmlForm the ambulance chasing lawyer link you provided. "(About 16 people die each year from dog attacks in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.) In such cases there is almost always evidence that the owner failed to take precaution despite knowing that the dog presented a grave danger to people, usually because the owner had trained the dog to fight or knew of previous unprovoked attacks or very aggressive behavior by the dog." Like I said there are usually signs, but folks ignore them because they can't stomach doing what should be done, that is on them and them alone.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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PaulBarnard,
Tell me: How much time & how many cases of illegal dogfighting.illegal gambling have YOU investigated & submitted for prosecution?? (I spent nearly a full year on such investigations of such cases & later testified about the SCUM who does that group of crimes. = UGLY business, imo..)
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt. Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar F'by 24, 1836
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,418 Likes: 5 |
31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (2), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 77% of the total recorded deaths in 2016. This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 12-year period of 2005 to 2016. The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 12-year period. From 2005 to 2016, pit bulls killed 254 Americans, about one citizen every 17 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 43, a citizen every 102 days (Related graph).
In 2016, the combination of pit bulls (22), their close cousins, American bulldogs (2), and rottweilers (2) contributed to 84% (26) of all dog bite-related fatalities. Both American bulldog cases involved dogs acquired in Miami-Dade County, Florida.. https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.phpHard facts, not theory, like global warming etc. nor exaggerated as in gun deaths stats ( suicides) that have nothing to do with crimes being committed. These are deaths, not the hundreds or thousands of people and kids maimed, or that suffered life changing events, many of which will never fully recover.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
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Do 2 searches to humor me,,
1- Pit bull attacks person,,, you will get About 1,440,000 results 2- Bear Hound attacks person,,, you will get about 0 results
Apples and oranges, first of all, because of what a minuscule number of bear dogs there are vs the number of Pitbulls. Then consider that even Pit mixes are classified in statistics as "Pitbulls," yet this is not the case for any other breed. Then consider the total number of "Pitbulls" in the US vs the total number of Pitbull bites. As to the latter comparison, it demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of Pitbulls are not problematic. Then consider that the problematic Pitbulls are almost always maintained as livestock rather than as house companions, and most of those that are problematic are owned by criminals. Any breed that's wildly popular among criminals is going to be more likely to cause problems in society than breeds that are not. Before they were adopted as the semi-official criminal's dog (right around 1980), you never heard of a Pitbull attacking anyone. If you even came across anyone who'd heard of the breed, the typical response would have been, "Oh yeah, that dog on the Little Rascals." Call them apples oranges or fruit loops,, all they do better than any other breed is to fight to the death, to bore in and kill no matter what,,, that is what they were breed for. Pits are more likely to kill you if they get aggressive, they have a greater capacity to kill you than other breeds due to breeding and physical ability, compair them to any breed in the US,,, find the numbers. and as for that study being anti Pit, I bet almost all of them are,, and for a good reason.
Location Western NC, after alot of other places
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,642 Likes: 20 |
PaulBarnard,
Tell me: How much time & how many cases of illegal dogfighting.illegal gambling have YOU investigated & submitted for prosecution?? (I spent nearly a full year on such investigations of such cases & later testified about the SCUM who does that group of crimes. = UGLY business, imo..)
yours, tex Zero my friend. Zero.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,754 Likes: 7 |
Were you ignoring the signs when all those dogs bit you? I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no. If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone. Wait a minute mag. You have been bitten by all these breeds? Not saying it didn't happen but that sounds like you displayed fear of a strange dog and they sensed it and bit you because of it I'm not even saying that is a bad thing because after I almost got my ass tore up by the biggest doberman in Montana, I can relate.
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,754 Likes: 7 |
My opinion on Pit Bulls, for the record, is extermination.
I have personally seen how they can turn at a moments notice on known and loved family members (not mine) and would have killed if not for someone intervening. Same goes for Rotts.
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
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I carried mail for 31 years, and when you do that, you learn a lot of things about the people on your mail route. The only people that I saw with pit bulls were Blacks and White Trash, the druggie types. It was nothing unusual to see one tied at the front door, and one at the back. I would not get out and deliver anything to the door, I either honked my horn for them to come to me, or left a notice and took the article back to the office. I never saw what I would call an ordinary person with a pit bull. You must not have a lot of Mexicans on your route -- it's the dog of choice for the "Vatos"
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
Those dogs were neglected. This is from the article that JoeBob linked above: I do believe that she would still be alive if it were any other breed, but she lost the bond she should have had with her dogs when she left them with her dad and they were left out in the cold in a pen and not cared for properly.
My dogs were left entirely alone in the back yard for more than two months when I went to the UK with a bicycle in the summer of 2016. All the caretaker did was feed 'em and check their water at least every other day (less care than I had been given to understand would occur). All of them lost weight but all were healthy, even the cat. Dogs live in the "right now", when I got back we simply picked up our daily routine as if I had never left. There's lots of explanations possible as to why them two dogs suddenly killed and ate that poor girl, how both of them were uncut males, how both of them were from a breed originally bred to kill and maul . Suffice to say very few dogs would have done what they did. Have you ever read a book called "The Art of Racing in The Rain?" ?? I googled it, about a dog that worked to keep his owner's family together? All sorts of jokes spring to mind but out of respect for the deceased young woman I'll refrain. It's a novel written through the eyes of a dog, and it talks about how dogs live in the moment. Much like the dogs owner does when he's driving a race car, the dog lives in the now. When you wrote that earlier, I thought maybe you had read the book. Naah, I got it from the Dog Whisperer, he was a dick about supporting pit bulls, but he got a lot of other stuff right, especially how dogs are dogs, and not little people.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2012
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My dad has a dog like that. She's a tiny little Maltese, but will suddenly attack people in response to certain trigger situations, and I mean real bites and holding on while shaking the hold out for maximum damage. This even to family members. She bit my mom a few times when she was alive, but they both loved her, and my dad still does, so she gets a pass, even though she's attacked untold dozens of people, including family members. This is mainly because the degree of harm she's capable of is minimal, and can be fixed with soap and water, iodine, and a band-aid or two.
JFC! That owner should be in jail and the dog euthanized. LOL, here's the monster you're having fits over. Worst case scenario would be a small scratch, treated with antiseptic and a band-aid. More typically, the bite is on the cuff of the pants. The reason so many little "ankle biters" are allowed to continue living is that the amount of actual harm they're capable of is minimal, and the owner raised them from tiny pups, so it would be like putting a child down. How they get that way is mainly due to not feeling comfortable with harsh corrections on such tiny dogs while they're pups. We're talking a two or three pound little puppy when the behavior starts. The dog in the picture is full grown, and hardly more than six or seven pounds. We had one of those ankle biters that out of the blue bit a toddler in the face. It wasn't bad, just a small puncture. The kid had not done anything - was just standing there. And the dog bit her. I put him down.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,240 Likes: 39 |
Were you ignoring the signs when all those dogs bit you? I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no. If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone. Wait a minute mag. You have been bitten by all these breeds? Not saying it didn't happen but that sounds like you displayed fear of a strange dog and they sensed it and bit you because of it I'm not even saying that is a bad thing because after I almost got my ass tore up by the biggest doberman in Montana, I can relate. Golden Retriever, Chihuahua, Shih zu, and Lab were all in adulthood, unprovoked when reaching out to pet except for the Golden, I was taking a Seashell away from him. The German Shepard, and Poodle were when I was a kid and was probably due to kid stuff but still unprovoked in my opinion. You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it. After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it.
After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect. Way back when our uncut male 8lb Jack Russel mix when he was about a year old growled at our son, prob'ly he thought he was jockeying for position within the pack. Said dog immediately went sailing across the room, courtesy of my foot. He musta thought my son did it, never had a problem after that.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Were you ignoring the signs when all those dogs bit you? I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no. If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone. Wait a minute mag. You have been bitten by all these breeds? Not saying it didn't happen but that sounds like you displayed fear of a strange dog and they sensed it and bit you because of it I'm not even saying that is a bad thing because after I almost got my ass tore up by the biggest doberman in Montana, I can relate. Golden Retriever, Chihuahua, Shih zu, and Lab were all in adulthood, unprovoked when reaching out to pet except for the Golden, I was taking a Seashell away from him. The German Shepard, and Poodle were when I was a kid and was probably due to kid stuff but still unprovoked in my opinion. You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it. After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect. I agree any breed can be aggressive, usually (but not always) when they feel threatened but... "Owner/Family mauled by Yellow Lab", the headline never read.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987 |
To All,
Fwiw, IF you are in need of a watch dog & don't want one of the "protection breeds", look at a Chow-Chow, German Shorthaired (or Wirehaired) Pointer, Viszla, Treeing Walker, Plott Hound, TX Blue Lacey, Kerry Blue Terrier or (for small spaces/apartments) a Lhasa Apso. (NO JOKE, the little Lhasa Apso has a LOUD/scary-sounding bark, is FIERCE, FEARS NOTHING, is fiercely loyal to their "pack" & has a HARD bite. = Buddhist monks trust the Lhasa to guard their temples & shrines. - Do NOT let a Lhasa outside & off-leash, as they fear NOTHING & will stand snarling, while a car runs them down. = A 15 pound Lhasa believes that he/she is as big as a German Shepherd.).
When my late wife was modeling/a student at SMU in 1970, a known criminal (with a long string of arrests for various crimes) broke into her condo in North Dallas. - When VK got home, she said that "Muffin", her 10# Lhasa bitch, looked like she had rolled in fresh blood. = The thug went to the ER at Parkland Hospital and 100+ stitches later the DCSO placed him into confinement, charged with burglary. (The burglar said that "Muffin" let him into the condo but wouldn't let him out.= She kept using his feet & legs as a "chewy toy" until he finally was able to escape.)
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt. Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar F'by 24, 1836
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 96,016 Likes: 19 |
Those dogs were neglected. This is from the article that JjoeBob linked above: Blackwood said Stephens had left the dogs with her father. The indoor dogs were then held up outside “in the cold” in a small kennel. Stephens would return home about five times a week to see the canines.
“[Stephens’ father] wasn’t taking care of them — it wasn’t his responsibility,” Blackwood said.
Agnew confirmed the medical examiner said Stephens was on her “menstrual period,” but added: “But I don’t think there’s any way we can definitively say what caused the attack.” I do believe that she would still be alive if it were any other breed, but she lost the bond she should have had with her dogs when she left them with her dad and they were left out in the cold in a pen and not cared for properly. 22+40 gr in the brain =Proper care.
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/19/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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To All,
Fwiw, IF you are in need of a watch dog & don't want one of the "protection breeds", look at a Chow-Chow, German Shorthaired (or Wirehaired) Pointer, Viszla, Treeing Walker, Plott Hound, TX Blue Lacey, Kerry Blue Terrier or (for small spaces/apartments) a Lhasa Apso. (NO JOKE, the little Lhasa Apso has a LOUD/scary-sounding bark, is FIERCE, FEARS NOTHING, is fiercely loyal to their "pack" & has a HARD bite. = Buddhist monks trust the Lhasa to guard their temples & shrines. - Do NOT let a Lhasa outside & off-leash, as they fear NOTHING & will stand snarling, while a car runs them down. = A 15 pound Lhasa believes that he/she is as big as a German Shepherd.).
When my late wife was modeling/a student at SMU in 1970, a known criminal (with a long string of arrests for various crimes) broke into her condo in North Dallas. - When VK got home, she said that "Muffin", her 10# Lhasa bitch, looked like she had rolled in fresh blood. = The thug went to the ER at Parkland Hospital and 100+ stitches later the DCSO placed him into confinement, charged with burglary. (The burglar said that "Muffin" let him into the condo but wouldn't let him out.= She kept using his feet & legs as a "chewy toy" until he finally was able to escape.)
yours, tex My mother had Lhasa when was growing up. They are fearless, and hell on mail if you have a drop slot in your door I can attest to that. What I was told (don't know if it was true), Lhasa's were put in Tibetan temples to serve as early warning and as advance attacker to invaders, Mastiffs were also in the temples but were not as alert and as aggressive; but once they heard the commotion from the invaders and Lhasas tussle; they would go see what killed the Lhasa and resolve the issue.
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Joined: Jan 2016
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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Were you ignoring the signs when all those dogs bit you? I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no. If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone. They make pork chops for some to wear around their necks. It makes dogs like you.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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