Virginia woman killed in 'grisly mauling' by her dogs

A Virginia woman was mauled to death by her dogs while taking them for a walk in the woods near her home, local authorities said Friday.

Local deputies found the body of Bethany Stephens, 22, in a wooded area off of Manakin Road in Goodland, Va. around 8:20 p.m. on Thursday, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reported.

In a news conference Friday, Sheriff James L. Agnew said Stephens’ body was found guarded by “two very large, brindle-colored pitbull dogs.

That dog in the pic isn't a pure pit.

So, what difference does that make?

In a pack (that is one dog, one person minimum), there is only one boss.

She wasn't it.

So, what difference does that make?

This guy likely would have met the same fate had someone not helped him out. He has two of the dogs by leashes (the two Dobermans), which would imply they are his. He was trying to pull all of them in towards himself to let a scooter squeeze by when the one Rottweiler started the attack. The other dogs then followed suit, even one of his own.

I'll guarantee there were known problems with these two dogs before this ever happened, but the problems were ignored because she didn't want to get rid of the dogs.

She paid the price for her own mistakes, thank God no one else had to.

I have a 12lb Shih Tzu that has a problem with challenging me for the alpha role every now and then, If he was a Pit Bull I would have him put to sleep, I don't have him put to sleep because he really can't hurt anyone.

My dad has a dog like that. She's a tiny little Maltese, but will suddenly attack people in response to certain trigger situations, and I mean real bites and holding on while shaking the hold out for maximum damage. This even to family members. She bit my mom a few times when she was alive, but they both loved her, and my dad still does, so she gets a pass, even though she's attacked untold dozens of people, including family members. This is mainly because the degree of harm she's capable of is minimal, and can be fixed with soap and water, iodine, and a band-aid or two.

What I found interesting about the video was how the guys own dog joined in. I am guilty of not understanding the pack mentality.

Pits doing what they do best,,, killing. Thats all they do better. You own one thats what you want it for, plain and simple.

They spent hours and picked up 40 pieces of evidence (the girl).

but not all Muslims...

My dad has a dog like that. She's a tiny little Maltese, but will suddenly attack people in response to certain trigger situations, and I mean real bites and holding on while shaking the hold out for maximum damage. This even to family members. She bit my mom a few times when she was alive, but they both loved her, and my dad still does, so she gets a pass, even though she's attacked untold dozens of people, including family members. This is mainly because the degree of harm she's capable of is minimal, and can be fixed with soap and water, iodine, and a band-aid or two.

I can own any breed of dog safely.

With all due respect;

The day before she was ripped to pieces, this woman would have said the exact same thing.

"
The area where they found the victim’s body was covered in blood, Agnew said, adding that it took at least eight hours for investigators to collect over 60 pieces of evidence"
Might want to read that again.

If you have dogs of this general type (those with a breed purpose of either security or combat), then you simply cannot just be their roomate or pal. You MUST be their master first and foremost.

Many people cannot or will not do this with a dog. They want to be their friends not their masters. The thing they don't understand is that once you establish yourself as the boss the dog becomes very attached and loyal to you and you end up with the best friend you have ever had, they will give their life for you without a second thought.

This guy likely would have met the same fate had someone not helped him out. He has two of the dogs by leashes (the two Dobermans), which would imply they are his. He was trying to pull all of them in towards himself to let a scooter squeeze by when the one Rottweiler started the attack. The other dogs then followed suit, even one of his own.

That dog in the pic isn't a pure pit.

Who wants a vicious mean spirited dog, that must be mastered constantly if young kids are around ?, how bout when you go to the gas station and they attack the wife, cuz she's not Alpha enough ? GTFOH

Stick with Labs and Poodles.

I carried mail for 31 years.

Someone mentioned what his two cur dogs did to a Tomcat, but then deleted it. Anyway, this video was meant to be in response to that post.

Exactly. I can count on no finger how many times I've seen a woman be the Alpha. Women should only own foofoo dogs.

Good lord! I've killed my share of all kinds of critters but never slow. Nothing should be chewed to death. I'd off kicked the damn weiner dogs into next week before I stood there and filmed it.

The type of person that should own pit bulls usually doesn’t and the type that shouldn’t usually does. They feel a certain comfort in something stronger than themselves “protecting” them, irregardless of whether or not they possess any control over their “protector”.

I carried mail for 31 years, and when you do that, you learn a lot of things about the people on your mail route. The only people that I saw with pit bulls were Blacks and White Trash, the druggie types.

No thanks, a small cat and a S&W works just fine here...maybe you should move.

Having had large and powerful breeds all my life, and learning at a young age how they are to be handled when you own them, I can own any breed of dog safely. That said, my folks always owned the breeds of dog that most people considered ferocious and frightening, and they (for as long as they continued that practice) had never been burglarized or home-invaded. I suspect that's a big part why. After abandoning that practice (choosing, in their old age, to own tiny dogs instead) they have been burglarized once.

Anyway, I have maintained that practice for myself, and have also never been burglarized or home-invaded. I've owned German Shepherds, a Doberman, Pitbulls, Pitbull mixes, and currently a Pitbull mix (the white dog) and an old-style Bulldog (the brindle dog).

All dogs are about the same, pet-wise, when you actually know how to handle dogs, so I choose those types of dogs most feared by burglars and the like. People not so capable, should probably stick with those breeds whose breed-purpose has had nothing whatever to do with combat or security against criminals. These dogs require a firm hand and a certain degree of expertise to safely own.

So you make my point,, you want the breed because they are feared, they are feared because they have and will again kill. Pits and pit mixes have in fact killed so often that is is pretty much overlooked as oh well another pit went crazy. But it is not the pit going crazy, it is the pit doing what they are programmed by instinct to do. The same as the weener dogs chewing the armadillo, all following their breeding and programmed instinct.

Your dogs know you are the boss, they follow you, you dictate their behavior when you are there, what happens when they encounter someone who is weak or very young and does not do the right things or act the correct way, and you are not there to set the behavior of the pack? Instinct could take over, with a weener dog an ankle gets bit, with a hound or lab someone gets bruised or scared badly, and with a pit someone dies.

I don't mind a dog that will bite to protect it's turf, it's owner, or even itself, as that's what dogs do. But......I don't like a dog that wants to kill a person, and that's what pit bulls do..

I like a dog that will stand up for me and mine,,, and actually most breeds will do that in a push and shove situation,,, my last hound would have taken on anything and anybody over our family, but he lacked the mental and physical capacity to kill like a pit, he put a few people back into their cars over the years when they got out at the house and he didn't know them, he sounded AND LOOKED like Kugo gone bad. But he never grabbed anyone, and I never worried about him doing so, I never worried about anyone breaking into the house with him around either.

To All,

Over the last 50 years, I've owned numerous Pits, Dobermans, GSPs & German Shepherds,

ALL of them were CAPABLE of "causing harm" BUT they were well-trained by a professional/me & in control.

My old DOLLY, a spayed Doberman bitch,. used to go to work with me & I'd bet that most "visitors" to my office on post didn't know that she was behind my desk BUT was watchful & instantly responsive to me.

My late wife used to be asked, "Aren't you scared to death every time that your husband is out on post at night & alone??"

VK always responded, "He's NOT alone, Dolly is always in the truck seat & at his right hip, when he's out of the truck. He'll be fine.":

yours, tex

My dad has a dog like that. She's a tiny little Maltese, but will suddenly attack people in response to certain trigger situations, and I mean real bites and holding on while shaking the hold out for maximum damage. This even to family members. She bit my mom a few times when she was alive, but they both loved her, and my dad still does, so she gets a pass, even though she's attacked untold dozens of people, including family members. This is mainly because the degree of harm she's capable of is minimal, and can be fixed with soap and water, iodine, and a band-aid or two.

JFC!
That owner should be in jail and the dog euthanized.

The Real Hawkeye; ALL,

Owning a protection dog is only for folks who have the brains/judgment to HAVE one. - It's rather like carrying a 1911A1 "cocked & locked" = You either have the ability to do so safely or you do NOT.
(I know any number of people who shouldn't be trusted to possess a "peashooter" or a hammer or a car/PU, lest they injure themself with it.)

just my OPINION, tex

The little f_ucker would find herself dangling from a choke hold.

A cocked and locked 1911 sitting on a table doesn't need anyone passing by to emit "alpha vibes" lest it go off on them.

I actually have no use for a dog inclined to bite people, even a trained protection dog. Too much chance of someone getting bit without cause IMHO on account of I cannot be sure I'll be watching the dog every friggin' minute it is out and about.

Many dogs can at least put on a show of barking, growling etc in the event of an intruder and that is all I require, the advance warning and/or the pause on the part of the intruder is enough for me. Deadly force, if appropriate, would be my job.

My experience of the past thirty years has been that the teenage/early 20's male criminal element, ie. the ones who commit most all the crimes, commonly have an almost pathological fear of dogs, and the dogs don't have to be 50lb Schutzhund champs in order to be a deterrence.

JFC!
That owner should be in jail and the dog euthanized.

The little f_ucker would find herself dangling from a choke hold.

Everybody's a badass until they find themselves on the receiving end of a raging Maltese attack.

If it was a Yorkie I might be worried.

LOL, here's the monster you're having fits over. Worst case scenario would be a small scratch, treated with antiseptic and a band-aid. More typically, the bite is on the cuff of the pants.

The reason so many little "ankle biters" are allowed to continue living is that the amount of actual harm they're capable of is minimal, and the owner raised them from tiny pups, so it would be like putting a child down. How they get that way is mainly due to not feeling comfortable with harsh corrections on such tiny dogs while they're pups. We're talking a two or three pound little puppy when the behavior starts. The dog in the picture is full grown, and hardly more than six or seven pounds.

I honestly don’t GAS how big the dog or how small the injury.

It seems you missed the point. It’s a biting dog. (hint)

Nah, I've seen home security cam footage of a large lab putting up an impressive show as three black teens bust the door down. One of them picked up a chair and hurled it at the dog, and that was the last of it being seen out from under the kitchen table where it hid till they'd taken what they wanted.

While you have an obvious right to have your own opinion, I wonder if you KNOW what a "Personal Protection Dog" IS.

DOLLY was NEVER out of my sight 24/365 & about 95% of the time was close enough for me to literally "reach out & touch".

What’s the weight limit of a dog in the real world where nobody gets an infection?

Or where it gets ‘real’.

There are enough good dogs to not put up with a POS biter.

Then again that’s me.

People like to imagine that their dogs would stand up to a determined attacker, but unless extreme courage is deep in their bloodlines, it's a fantasy 99 times out of a hundred.

You’re being intentionally dense.

[i]Pit Bull Attacks Woman Same Day as Adopted Out


Before arriving at Forever Home, Blue had been on death row at the New York City municipal shelter for "biting people."

Birdwatcher,

Fwiw, leaving a PPD (in her "working collar") "unsupervised" at ANY time is as negligent as leaving a loaded gun where it can be taken/misused by an irresponsible/untrained person. = That's why relatively FEW people NEED a PPD and/or are knowledgeable/well-trained enough to actually utilize one properly. And YES, such a "deadly weapon" MUST be insured for the owner's liability for negligence/misuse.
(It took me several tries to get Dolly to let my late wife feed her and/or let her outside to relieve herself. = Dolly had been "poison-proofed" & would only eat/drink from her own bowls. Further, MOST every PPD will NOT work for anyone but "their person", who owns them/knows the proper cues.)


I cannot resist recalling one instance where Dolly was needed: About 2300 on 16APR1994, I exited my POV in downtown _____________ & was faced with a 23YO local thug, who "came at me" with a 9"-bladed knife. Given her cue, Dolly took the thug down & within 30 seconds he was "subdued", I called her off & he was thereafter transported by the police to a local ER.
(About 10 days later, he was released by the doctors & into the custody of the National Police for trial. = Over 300 stitches were required to close his wounds to his "knife hand", lower right arm, face & neck. - I doubt if he ever used his right hand properly again..)


yours, tex

Birdwatcher,

Fwiw, leaving a PPD (in her "working collar") "unsupervised" at ANY time is as negligent as leaving a loaded gun where it can be taken/misused by an irresponsible/untrained person. = That's why relatively FEW people NEED a PPD and/or are knowledgeable/well-trained enough to actually utilize one properly. And YES, such a "deadly weapon" MUST be insured for the owner's liability for negligence/misuse.
(It took me several tries to get Dolly to let my late wife feed her and/or let her outside to relieve herself. = Dolly had been "poison-proofed" & would only eat/drink from her own bowls. Further, MOST every PPD will NOT work for anyone but "their person", who owns them/knows the proper cues.)


I cannot resist recalling one instance where Dolly was needed: About 2300 on 16APR1994, I exited my POV in downtown _____________ & was faced with a 23YO local thug, who "came at me" with a 9"-bladed knife. Given her cue, Dolly took the thug down & within 30 seconds he was "subdued", I called her off & he was thereafter transported by the police to a local ER.
(About 10 days later, he was released by the doctors & into the custody of the National Police for trial. = Over 300 stitches were required to close his wounds to his "knife hand", lower right arm, face & neck. - I doubt if he ever used his right hand properly again..)

yours, tex

(About 10 days later, he was released by the doctors & into the custody of the National Police for trial. = Over 300 stitches were required to close his wounds to his "knife hand", lower right arm, face & neck. - I doubt if he ever used his right hand properly again..)

stxhunter,You bet there are & their "human aggressiveness" is a result of bad discipline/training OR intention.)

yours, tex.

the one i'm talking about was my dog that turned on me.

I guess you can get a scratch and die from lots of things, but everything is a balancing act between different factors. A Mastiff that bit people for no reason would need to be put down pronto or you will almost certainly end up losing your shirt in the courts. Then you have the tiny chance that a tiny scratch from a tiny dog might result from a bite that 9 times out of ten would only be a pants cuff grab. Compromises are made in life for all kinds of reasons.

lmao, i think i knew my dog much better than you

i'd hate to fight off two pits, one was bad enough.

Well hey, sometimes justice does prevail

Here's a photo of my heelers in action, me out running them at heel behind my bike, this from about six years back. Sadly the smaller one recently expired.

I paid $15 fer the smaller one, $150 for the bigger one but just anyone can walk up and pet 'em. Again being heelers they don't really like strangers, but these will patiently endure the attention.

All I really need my dogs to do is behave, heel, sit, down, and stay, come right away when they are called (by name or with a quiet hiss) and heel like glue when I snap my fingers, on a bike or on foot. I hardly ever have them on a leash, I got not use for a dog that NEEDS a leash (tho I'd put PPD's in a whole diff'rent category).

Yeah, but that's you. I'm explaining why, in the real world out there, so few people actually put down tiny dogs that bite. It's why tiny dogs are so often called "ankle biters."

stxhunter,

NOT very well trained was your dog??
(Face facts, pit bulls are NO more dangerous than any other large/powerful dog. = It's an URBAN MYTH & no more than that. - A St Bernard is POTENTIALLY a truly DANGEROUS animal because of their SIZE/strength, if they are raised that way)

The TRUTH is that NONE of the traditional "pit-fighting breeds" are NATURALLY dangerous to people, as otherwise those "fighting dogs" would be too dangerous for the "pit fighter"/handler or owner to handle. - It takes considerable "training" to make any otherwise healthy dog "mean" or "vicious" and that "human aggressiveness" is INTENDED by their owners in 99% of cases. = The "trash" WANTS a BAD DOG to protect their criminal lifestyle in many cases.
(Are there DANGEROUS pit bulls out there?? - You bet there are & their "human aggressiveness" is a result of bad discipline/training OR intention.)

yours, tex.

Wasn't there another long time owner of a bully breed dog who's dog turned on him that used to post on here? Canadian if I remember right.

stxhunter,


The TRUTH is that NONE of the traditional "pit-fighting breeds" are NATURALLY dangerous to people, as otherwise those "fighting dogs" would be too dangerous for the "pit fighter"/handler or owner to handle. - .

And this is were the problem started, NYCMS should never have let that dog go, It should have been put down within 24hrs of arrival unless there was a court case involving the dog.

If they would have done the proper thing the old gal would still be around.

Wasn't there another long time owner of a bully breed dog who's dog turned on him that used to post on here? Canadian if I remember right.

HANDSOME pair, imvho.

that pic says a lot for the breed and your training

i reached down to pet him and he attacked, i got 68 stitches in my fingers and 4 pins.i grabbed his bottom jaw, pinned and choked him out.

i reached down to pet him and he attacked, i got 68 stitches in my fingers and 4 pins.i grabbed his bottom jaw, pinned and choked him out.

Wasn't there another long time owner of a bully breed dog who's dog turned on him that used to post on here? Canadian if I remember right.

People like to imagine that their dogs would stand up to a determined attacker, but unless extreme courage is deep in their bloodlines, it's a fantasy 99 times out of a hundred.

There are actually 2 members on here, one has admitted his mistakes and took ownership.

i reached down to pet him and he attacked, i got 68 stitches in my fingers and 4 pins.i grabbed his bottom jaw, pinned and choked him out.

Blackwood said Stephens had left the dogs with her father. The indoor dogs were then held up outside “in the cold” in a small kennel. Stephens would return home about five times a week to see the canines.

“[Stephens’ father] wasn’t taking care of them — it wasn’t his responsibility,” Blackwood said.

Agnew confirmed the medical examiner said Stephens was on her “menstrual period,” but added: “But I don’t think there’s any way we can definitively say what caused the attack.”

Do you have loss of mobility from the dog bite Roger ?
Permanent damage ?

I remember that. Didn't he try and bite your tit off prior to that too?

Our plotts stand up to bears pretty well, our dogs are proven in the courage department without having a heritage of killing and mauling their owners,, there is a huge difference between courage and instability.

Those dogs were neglected. This is from the article that JoeBob linked above:
I do believe that she would still be alive if it were any other breed, but she lost the bond she should have had with her dogs when she left them with her dad and they were left out in the cold in a pen and not cared for properly.

Wait, they killed her because she didn’t maintain a bond? What was she, a lion tamer or a dog owner?

Wait, they killed her because she didn’t maintain a bond? What was she, a lion tamer or a dog owner?

Those dogs were neglected. This is from the article that JjoeBob linked above:





I do believe that she would still be alive if it were any other breed, but she lost the bond she should have had with her dogs when she left them with her dad and they were left out in the cold in a pen and not cared for properly.

My dogs were left entirely alone in the back yard for more than two months when I went to the UK with a bicycle in the summer of 2016. All the caretaker did was feed 'em and check their water at least every other day (less care than I had been given to understand would occur). All of them lost weight but all were healthy, even the cat.

Dogs live in the "right now", when I got back we simply picked up our daily routine as if I had never left.

There's lots of explanations possible as to why them two dogs suddenly killed and ate that poor girl, how both of them were uncut males, how both of them were from a breed originally bred to kill and maul . Suffice to say very few dogs would have done what they did.

I assume by that that you mean to imply that boar dogs (and I’m not talking about hounds), bulldogs, and guard dogs are unstable by breed. This is absurd. Even if we only looked at Pitbulls, only the tiniest percent of them ever, in their whole lives, showed inappropriate aggression towards a human being.

Don't get confused,, and never assume

Do 2 searches to humor me,,

1- Pit bull attacks person,,, you will get About 1,440,000 results
2- Bear Hound attacks person,,, you will get about 0 results

Heck keep going if you want,,

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada
September 1982 to December 31, 2014

from

https://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2014.pdf


Breed Attacks


Pit bull 3397
Pit bull/Akita mix 4
Pit bull/Australian shepherd 2
Pit bull boxer mix 35
Pit bull/chow mix 11
Pit bull/Doberman mix 1
Pit bull/Doberman/GSD/Lab 2
Pit bull/Great Dane 1
Pit bull/Great Dane/Dalmatian 1
Pit bull/GSD mix 15
Pit bull/Lab mix 43
Pit/Rhodesian ridgeback mix 2
Pit bull/Rott. mix 56
Pit bull/Sharpei mix 2
Pit bull/Sheltie mix 7
Pit bull/Weimaraner mix 1
Pit bull/wolf hybrid 1
Pit mix unknown 22

all pit and pit mixes results in 307 Fatalities


Plott hound 10 Attacks with NO fatalities



Pit bulls fight to the death better than any other breed, that's all they do better. Justify that ability anyway you like but that is all you are doing, Justifying that the risk is worth it.

Do 2 searches to humor me,,

1- Pit bull attacks person,,, you will get About 1,440,000 results
2- Bear Hound attacks person,,, you will get about 0 results

Have you ever read a book called "The Art of Racing in The Rain?"

Apples and oranges, first of all, because of what a minuscule number of bear dogs there are vs the number of Pitbulls. Then consider that even Pit mixes are classified in statistics as "Pitbulls," yet this is not the case for any other breed. Then consider the total number of "Pitbulls" in the US vs the total number of Pitbull bites. As to the latter comparison, it demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of Pitbulls are not problematic. Then consider that the problematic Pitbulls are almost always maintained as livestock rather than as house companions, and most of those that are problematic are owned by criminals. Any breed that's wildly popular among criminals is going to be more likely to cause problems in society than breeds that are not. Before they were adopted as the semi-official criminal's dog (right around 1980), you never heard of a Pitbull attacking anyone. If you even came across anyone who'd heard of the breed, the typical response would have been, "Oh yeah, that dog on the Little Rascals."

Then consider that the problematic Pitbulls are almost always maintained as livestock rather than as house companions, and most of those that are problematic are owned by criminals.

Apples and oranges, first of all, because of what a minuscule number of bear dogs there are vs the number of Pitbulls. Then consider that even Pit mixes are classified in statistics as "Pitbulls," yet this is not the case for any other breed. Then consider the total number of "Pitbulls" in the US vs the total number of Pitbull bites. As to the latter comparison, it demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of Pitbulls are not problematic. Then consider that the problematic Pitbulls are almost always maintained as livestock rather than as house companions, and most of those that are problematic are owned by criminals. Any breed that's wildly popular among criminals is going to be more likely to cause problems in society than breeds that are not. Before they were adopted as the semi-official criminal's dog (right around 1980), you never heard of a Pitbull attacking anyone. If you even came across anyone who'd heard of the breed, the typical response would have been, "Oh yeah, that dog on the Little Rascals."

So which government appointee will you folks place in charge of determining for us which breeds are the bad ones that we can't own? Reminds me of the liberals who want to put a government appointee in charge of which guns are "assault weapons," and which aren't.

Pits are great dogs and a pleasure to have around. Right up to the point that they aren't! Unfortunately people don't know when that is until it's too late.

Have had 5 Labrador retrievers over the past 30 years, nary a bite,growl or snarl at any human beings.

So which government appointee will you folks place in charge of determining for us which breeds are the bad ones that we can't own? Reminds me of the liberals who want to put a government appointee in charge of which guns are "assault weapons," and which aren't.

AR-15s don't all of a sudden break out of the safe, load themselves, and attack people.

Pit bulls do.

?? I googled it, about a dog that worked to keep his owner's family together?

All sorts of jokes spring to mind but out of respect for the deceased young woman I'll refrain.

So which government appointee will you folks place in charge of determining for us which breeds are the bad ones that we can't own? Reminds me of the liberals who want to put a government appointee in charge of which guns are "assault weapons," and which aren't.

Who suggested that? I missed it.

So which government appointee will you folks place in charge of determining for us which breeds are the bad ones that we can't own? Reminds me of the liberals who want to put a government appointee in charge of which guns are "assault weapons," and which aren't.

Looks like many insurance companies either already have or are in the process of making lists of known "dangerous breeds" they prefer not offer homeowner liability coverage for or those that do but at high risk premiums. https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/dog-breeds-no-insurance-company-wants-cover.html/?a=viewall.

Were you ignoring the signs when all those dogs bit you?

Looks like many insurance companies either already have or are in the process of making lists of known "dangerous breeds" they prefer not offer homeowner liability coverage for or those that do but at high risk premiums. https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/dog-breeds-no-insurance-company-wants-cover.html/?a=viewall.

What's the solution, then? Persuasion?

Also, Indy seemed to be arguing for it, without actually coming out and putting words to it.

"Over 900 U.S. cities have enacted breed-specific legislation. Cities such as Denver, which resides within a state containing a state preemption law, have effectively implemented these laws as well.

Appellate courts in fourteen U.S. states, as well as the District of Columbia, have upheld the constitutionality of breed-specific pit bull laws.

Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific legislation as well, including: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, Ireland, Australia, and more." https://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dangerous-dogs-state-by-state.php

And then there's this, too: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/dog-book/chapter12-3.html

31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (2), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 77% of the total recorded deaths in 2016.
This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 12-year period of 2005 to 2016.
The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 12-year period. From 2005 to 2016, pit bulls killed 254 Americans, about one citizen every 17 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 43, a citizen every 102 days (Related graph).

In 2016, the combination of pit bulls (22), their close cousins, American bulldogs (2), and rottweilers (2) contributed to 84% (26) of all dog bite-related fatalities. Both American bulldog cases involved dogs acquired in Miami-Dade County, Florida..

Apples and oranges, first of all, because of what a minuscule number of bear dogs there are vs the number of Pitbulls. Then consider that even Pit mixes are classified in statistics as "Pitbulls," yet this is not the case for any other breed. Then consider the total number of "Pitbulls" in the US vs the total number of Pitbull bites. As to the latter comparison, it demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of Pitbulls are not problematic. Then consider that the problematic Pitbulls are almost always maintained as livestock rather than as house companions, and most of those that are problematic are owned by criminals. Any breed that's wildly popular among criminals is going to be more likely to cause problems in society than breeds that are not. Before they were adopted as the semi-official criminal's dog (right around 1980), you never heard of a Pitbull attacking anyone. If you even came across anyone who'd heard of the breed, the typical response would have been, "Oh yeah, that dog on the Little Rascals."

PaulBarnard,

Tell me: How much time & how many cases of illegal dogfighting.illegal gambling have YOU investigated & submitted for prosecution??
(I spent nearly a full year on such investigations of such cases & later testified about the SCUM who does that group of crimes. = UGLY business, imo..)

yours, tex

I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no.

If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone.

I carried mail for 31 years, and when you do that, you learn a lot of things about the people on your mail route. The only people that I saw with pit bulls were Blacks and White Trash, the druggie types. It was nothing unusual to see one tied at the front door, and one at the back. I would not get out and deliver anything to the door, I either honked my horn for them to come to me, or left a notice and took the article back to the office. I never saw what I would call an ordinary person with a pit bull.

It's a novel written through the eyes of a dog, and it talks about how dogs live in the moment. Much like the dogs owner does when he's driving a race car, the dog lives in the now. When you wrote that earlier, I thought maybe you had read the book.

LOL, here's the monster you're having fits over. Worst case scenario would be a small scratch, treated with antiseptic and a band-aid. More typically, the bite is on the cuff of the pants.

The reason so many little "ankle biters" are allowed to continue living is that the amount of actual harm they're capable of is minimal, and the owner raised them from tiny pups, so it would be like putting a child down. How they get that way is mainly due to not feeling comfortable with harsh corrections on such tiny dogs while they're pups. We're talking a two or three pound little puppy when the behavior starts. The dog in the picture is full grown, and hardly more than six or seven pounds.

Wait a minute mag. You have been bitten by all these breeds? Not saying it didn't happen but that sounds like you displayed fear of a strange dog and they sensed it and bit you because of it

I'm not even saying that is a bad thing because after I almost got my ass tore up by the biggest doberman in Montana, I can relate.

You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it.

After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect.

Golden Retriever, Chihuahua, Shih zu, and Lab were all in adulthood, unprovoked when reaching out to pet except for the Golden, I was taking a Seashell away from him. The German Shepard, and Poodle were when I was a kid and was probably due to kid stuff but still unprovoked in my opinion.

You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it.

After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect.

Those dogs were neglected. This is from the article that JjoeBob linked above:





I do believe that she would still be alive if it were any other breed, but she lost the bond she should have had with her dogs when she left them with her dad and they were left out in the cold in a pen and not cared for properly.

To All,

Fwiw, IF you are in need of a watch dog & don't want one of the "protection breeds", look at a Chow-Chow, German Shorthaired (or Wirehaired) Pointer, Viszla, Treeing Walker, Plott Hound, TX Blue Lacey, Kerry Blue Terrier or (for small spaces/apartments) a Lhasa Apso.
(NO JOKE, the little Lhasa Apso has a LOUD/scary-sounding bark, is FIERCE, FEARS NOTHING, is fiercely loyal to their "pack" & has a HARD bite. = Buddhist monks trust the Lhasa to guard their temples & shrines. - Do NOT let a Lhasa outside & off-leash, as they fear NOTHING & will stand snarling, while a car runs them down. = A 15 pound Lhasa believes that he/she is as big as a German Shepherd.).

When my late wife was modeling/a student at SMU in 1970, a known criminal (with a long string of arrests for various crimes) broke into her condo in North Dallas. - When VK got home, she said that "Muffin", her 10# Lhasa bitch, looked like she had rolled in fresh blood. = The thug went to the ER at Parkland Hospital and 100+ stitches later the DCSO placed him into confinement, charged with burglary.
(The burglar said that "Muffin" let him into the condo but wouldn't let him out.= She kept using his feet & legs as a "chewy toy" until he finally was able to escape.)

yours, tex

I didn't know those dogs very well, hence I didn't get to know their mannerisms before I got bit, so the answer would be no.

If you ain't in tune with your dog you shouldn't own a dog, Just my opinion and I won't try to force it upon anyone.

Golden Retriever, Chihuahua, Shih zu, and Lab were all in adulthood, unprovoked when reaching out to pet except for the Golden, I was taking a Seashell away from him. The German Shepard, and Poodle were when I was a kid and was probably due to kid stuff but still unprovoked in my opinion.

You should have seen the look on that Golden's face when I picked him up and slammed him into the ground then I pinned him down with my hands on his front paws and my body holding his lower body. Him looking up at me and me screaming at him.......My uncle and I still laugh about it.

After that day that dog was my best buddy when I went over there, I'm pretty sure it was because of respect.

To All,

Fwiw, IF you are in need of a watch dog & don't want one of the "protection breeds", look at a Chow-Chow, German Shorthaired (or Wirehaired) Pointer, Viszla, Treeing Walker, Plott Hound, TX Blue Lacey, Kerry Blue Terrier or (for small spaces/apartments) a Lhasa Apso.
(NO JOKE, the little Lhasa Apso has a LOUD/scary-sounding bark, is FIERCE, FEARS NOTHING, is fiercely loyal to their "pack" & has a HARD bite. = Buddhist monks trust the Lhasa to guard their temples & shrines. - Do NOT let a Lhasa outside & off-leash, as they fear NOTHING & will stand snarling, while a car runs them down. = A 15 pound Lhasa believes that he/she is as big as a German Shepherd.).

When my late wife was modeling/a student at SMU in 1970, a known criminal (with a long string of arrests for various crimes) broke into her condo in North Dallas. - When VK got home, she said that "Muffin", her 10# Lhasa bitch, looked like she had rolled in fresh blood. = The thug went to the ER at Parkland Hospital and 100+ stitches later the DCSO placed him into confinement, charged with burglary.
(The burglar said that "Muffin" let him into the condo but wouldn't let him out.= She kept using his feet & legs as a "chewy toy" until he finally was able to escape.)

yours, tex

the latest news is worst than just killing her .
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dogs-went-drastic-lifestyle-changes-031458173.html

the latest news is worst than just killing her .
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dogs-went-drastic-lifestyle-changes-031458173.html

The following study is of interest for a number of reasons, but not least of which is the fact that it was completed prior to the dawn of the phenomenon of Pitbulls becoming popular among criminals, which trend began in the 1980s. Prior to that, they were mainly known in the rural south.

University of Texas Study: 1966–1980

A study[6] conducted at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School identified 74 fatal dog bites during the period 1966–1980 from news media and medical literature.

Most fatalities were young children, including 23 infants under 1 year old. In most cases, the dog was owned by the victim's family. In only 3 of the incidents was the dog reported to have been provoked by kicking, hitting, or having stones thrown at it. However, several incidents involved a child attempting to pet or hug the dog.[6]

In 6 of the incidents, there was no information available about the kind of dogs involved. In ten fatal attacks, the dogs were only described as "mixed-breed".

Many involved large and powerful molosser breeds: eight Saint Bernards, six Bull terriers, six Great Danes, two Boxers and a Rottweiler. In contrast to the time period covered other studies, the researchers found no fatal attacks attributed to any pit bulls at all.

Spitz and primitive dogs committed a significant minority of the attacks, mostly sled dog breeds (nine Husky breeds and five Malamutes), one Chow Chow and a Basenji.

Fatal herding and working breed attacks numbered sixteen, twelve German Shepherd attacks, two collie attacks, and two involving a Doberman pinscher.

There were multiple retriever attacks, including three Golden Retrievers and a Labrador, and two attacks by very small breeds: one Dachshund, and one Yorkshire Terrier, which is among the smallest of all dogs.[6]

Wikipedia

sse,

ImVho, getting ANY adult dog from a shelter is Russian Roulette. - That is definitely true with any of the "protection breeds" or even LARGE breeds.

yours, tex

It's no excuse but it appears she was abusing the dogs.

Recent pictures of her show a lot of tattoos. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a thug wannabe in the picture somewhere.

Yeah, they ate her...literally.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/1...oman-22-during-mauling-sheriff-says.html

Recent pictures of her show a lot of tattoos. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a thug wannabe in the picture somewhere.

i have tattoos, doesn't make me a thug by a long shot.

Intelligent pitbull owners would never comment in a thread like this.

i have tattoos, doesn't make me a thug by a long shot.

Intelligent pitbull owners would never comment in a thread like this.

Why not? There are intelligent pit owners. Intelligent pit owners would never come into a thread like this and tell everyone that owning a pit is no different from owning a Clumber Spaniel. But that's what tends to happen in these threads. The apologists come in and make excuses for the breed. Here's one question I have never had answered when I try to have a reasonable discussion with pit owners. Those intelligent pit owners are quick to say that the thug owner element is the problem, not the breed. Why do you reckon they choose the pit and fighting breeds?

In the 52 years since I was attacked by a pit bull, my fear and hatred of pitbulls has not diminished. Neither than my contempt for the owners.

Always was curious if owning a pit made one feel tougher. I'm guessing thats the case, judging by most of the trash that owns them. I'm also not one who thinks owning a pit should be illegal. I just think if one is dumb enough to own one, they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if it mauls someone.

Damned Pitbulls!!

I notice you didn't mention the pit attack story in the right sidebar at your link. A pit killed a woman and messed her husband up pretty badly it looks like.

Hows about it is fine to own Pitts, but if yours harms some one, you get charged with a crime, as in 2nd degree murder for a death, felony assault for a bite.

Are we negotiating new laws?

Hows about it is fine to own Pitts, but if yours harms some one, you get charged with a crime, as in 2nd degree murder for a death, felony assault for a bite.

Laws akin to DUI's sound good to me, when someone is injured or killed for Pitt Bull owners.
just as a drunk chose to drink and drive, owning a Pitt is a choice one should be held responsible for, when people or property is damaged.

Can we extend that to all dog owners?

Driving while intoxicated is a crime, per Florida Statute 316.193 . If it results in serious injury, it’s a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison. If it results in a death, it’s a second-degree felony, punishable by up to 15 years behind bars.

DUI is also a form of negligence. However, a certain threshold of evidence is required to prove the victim worthy of compensation. Establishing legal liability can be complicated, but the plaintiff (or injured party) generally needs to show:

The driver had a duty to the injured party to practice caution;
The duty was breached;
As a proximate result of that breach, the plaintiff was injured.

Something akin to this for a vicious dog breed sounds about right.



.

Are we negotiating new laws?

State Dangerous Dog Laws

Author: Charlotte Walden
Publish Year: 2015
Place of Publication: Michigan State University College of Law
Primary Citation: Animal Legal & Historical Center

Summary:

This table covers state laws that address dangerous dogs. These laws typically define when a dog is dangerous, the legal procedure that determines whether a dog is dangerous, conditions for owning a dangerous dog, euthanasia provisions, and penalties for the owner (and the dog). Currently, 39 states and several municipalities have dangerous dog codes.

Approximately, four to five million Americans are bitten by dogs every year. Of this number, approximately 800,000 Americans seek medical attention for these bites while only 0.0002 of these attacks are fatal. Dog bites are also one of the most popular reasons why children visit the emergency room. Since fatal dog attacks and dog bite injuries are within a State’s public health, safety, and welfare police power standard, 39 states and numerous municipalities currently have statutes and ordinances that regulate dogs believed to exhibit or engage in violent behaviors. These statutes and ordinances are known as Dangerous Dog laws.

While many cities and counties have enacted their own Dangerous Dog ordinances, the table below only details the 39 state laws. It is recommended that you look through your city or county’s ordinance for Dangerous Dog laws in addition to looking at the statutes listed below.
Actions that Classify a Dog as Dangerous

The definition of “dangerous dog” usually refers to the act or actions of a dog that puts the public or other animals at risk for injury or death. A state may also allow other animals to be declared dangerous as well. The “Definition” column in the table below reveals how each U.S. state defines dangerous dogs.

It is important to note that a Dangerous Dog law might use the phrase "vicious dog" instead of "dangerous dog," even though they are both referring to the same type of actions. However, a state may use a vicious dog classification in addition to a dangerous dog classification in order to distinguish a more serious act.

A Dangerous Dog statute may also have a potentially dangerous dog classification for acts or actions that are less severe than a dangerous/vicious dog classification. A few states include an even lower classification, either a nuisance or a menace dog, in their Dangerous Dog statutes as well.
The Procedure for Declaring a Dog Dangerous

In addition to providing a definitional section, Dangerous Dog statutes will typically provide a procedural section for determining whether a dog is dangerous, vicious, or potentially dangerous. Declaring a dog as dangerous may involve an administrative, a civil, or a criminal hearing. Currently, only four states (Colorado, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Virginia) use criminal proceedings to declare a dog as dangerous. Colorado, Oregon, and Pennsylvania also define harboring, maintaining, or owning a dangerous dog as a crime. Typically, however, the determination is carried out by a local administrative body or a municipal court. Appeals from a local governmental body’s determination may be heard in a state court, as is the practice in Illinois.

The “Procedure for Determination” column reveals how each state makes a dangerous, vicious, or potentially dangerous dog determination if the state includes any provisions.
Consequences of a Determination

Once a dog has been determined to be dangerous, vicious, or potentially dangerous, the owner typically must follow specific safety precautions to reduce the chance of injury to another person or animal. In Virginia, an owner must register his or her Dangerous Dog on a web registry along with the fees, confinement, microchip, tattoo, leash, and muzzle requirements that are typical requirements for owning a dangerous dog. Pennsylvania also has a webpage with a Dangerous Dog Registry. Georgia prohibits owners from selling or transferring ownership of a vicious dog unless the transfer is to a veterinarian or a governmental body to euthanize the dog. Generally, the safety precautions for a potentially dangerous dog are less restrictive than a dangerous dog determination. The “Conditions for Owning” column reveals the ownership restrictions each state places on a dangerous, vicious, or potentially dangerous dog if any.
Euthanasia

A violation of a dangerous dog statute may cost the animal his or her life. Eighteen (18) states have mandatory euthanization provisions, 6 states have none, and 27 states give the determining body the discretion to order the animal euthanized. Mandatory euthanization provisions usually involve a dangerous or vicious dog that has attacked and caused death or serious injury to a person or a domestic animal. Although, a state, like Washington, may have a mandatory euthanization provision for a dog whose owner fails to comply with ownership conditions. Ohio is the only state that prohibits an owner from debarking dangerous dogs; if an owner violates this provision, the dog will be destroyed. Virginia, New Jersey, and Louisiana require, after a chance to appeal, all vicious dogs to be euthanized.

Violations that are mandatory euthanization in one state may only be discretionary in another. In New Jersey, for instance, a dog may be euthanized if the owner does not appear for a hearing. In Tennessee, however, a dog will be euthanized if the owner does not appear in court 5 days after receiving notice. For more information, please refer to the "Euthanasia Provisions" column below.
Penalties

In addition to the animal losing his or her life, the owner may also face criminal charges, fines, prohibitions on owning a dog, and imprisonment for violating Dangerous Dog statutes. While misdemeanor offenses are the common penalty for violating dangerous dog statutes, 13 states have felony provisions. Typically, these felony provisions involve a dog that was previously declared dangerous or vicious, that attacks a person, and that attack results in a serious injury or death (see Florida, Nebraska, and Nevada below). Another common felonious crime occurs when an owner violates dangerous dog ownership conditions and the owner's dogs kills or causes serious injury to a person (see Illinois, Georgia, Ohio, and South Carolina below). Oregon has a felony provision for any dog that kills a person, regardless if the dog was previously determined dangerous; Michigan has felony provisions, including an Involuntary Manslaughter charge, for an animal determined dangerous that either kills or causes serious injury to a person. Felony provisions are rarely provided for previously determined dangerous dogs who seriously injure or kill a domestic animal. Only two states, New Mexico and Washington, have felony provisions for this crime. South Carolina is the only state that makes it a felony to attempt to sell, offer to sell, breed, buy, or attempt to buy a known dangerous animal.

Please refer to the “Penalties” column for further details on each state’s punishments for Dangerous Dog violations.

Laws akin to DUI's sound good to me, when someone is injured or killed for Pitt Bull owners.
just as a drunk chose to drink and drive, owning a Pitt is a choice one should be held responsible for, when people or property is damaged.

How about leaving it as it is now, where a vicious dog is defined per dog (not breed) by a history of inappropriate biting? That's the only way to do it without appointing a government agency to oversee for us an ever expanding list of breeds that are treated differently in the law.

The Real Hawkeye,

Having a public policy that is that SMART is too intelligent for the NITWITS of the far left. = Not only are they generally too intellectually lazy and/or unable to think critically but they desire someone else to make their decisions for them.

yours, tex

The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that no municipality in Florida may institute breed specific laws because it was proved to their satisfaction that there isn't a sufficient bright-line distinction between breeds on any list vs other breeds or mixes, thus introducing excessive arbitrariness into the question to be enforceable consistent with American legal principles. "Breeds," in other words, are only identified in two way: 1) by proud owners presenting carefully preserved lineage charts to whomever would like to look, or 2) by some government appointed "expert" giving his opinion by observation of what the dog in question looks like to him. Absent #1, the law is left with #2, which isn't permissible under American legal principles.

Thus, in Florida, a "vicious dog" is only definable in the law as one with a personal history of inappropriate biting.

Florida

Florida Statutes
Title XLV TORTS
Chapter 767 DAMAGE BY DOGS

767.14 Additional local restrictions authorized.
—Nothing in this act shall limit any local government from placing further restrictions or additional requirements on owners of dangerous dogs or developing procedures and criteria for the implementation of this act, provided that no such regulation is specific to breed and that the provisions of this act are not lessened by such additional regulations or requirements. This section shall not apply to any local ordinance adopted prior to October 1, 1990.

The last sentence in this law allows the grandfathering of breed bans or restrictions in place prior to October 1, 1990

That was one scary dog. He's about 90 pounds of lean angry muscle.

Amazing how some dogs are like that. I remember a dog show I attended where there were two male Boxers that were littermates whose musculature rivaled any I've seen on Pitbulls. I once saw a Rottweiler like that, too.

How about leaving it as it is now, where a vicious dog is defined per dog (not breed) by a history of inappropriate biting? That's the only way to do it without appointing a government agency to oversee for us an ever expanding list of breeds that are treated differently in the law.

You're citing a statute. Statutes don't override Supreme Court rulings. If anyone tried to enforce it, they'd run smack into the Supreme Court ruling.

Running up the cost of enforcement

Noted Hanks, “Courts have generally upheld laws banning pit bulls, provided the government can prove the restrictions protect public safety.” Which the Miami-Dade ordinance did quite effectively until, after the 2012 vote, Miami-Dade Animal Services chief of shelter operations and enforcement Kathleen Labrada quit enforcing the ordinance to the letter, instead finding ways to exempt dogs under common names for pit bull variants.The likelihood of losing will not stop the usual well-funded coterie of pit bull advocates from trying to run the cost of enforcing the Miami-Dade pit bull ordinance up so high that the county legislature gives in and repeals it, regardless of the cost in human and animal lives and security.

Once Boxers replace them in the homes of thugs (along with the consequent patterns of biting), will they be then included with Pitbulls? Rottweilers, after that? American Bulldogs, Dogo Argentinos? Which government agency will be in charge of expanding the list?

To All,

May I remind everyone that the dog on the RCA records labels was a Pitt Bull & "canine the STAR of the show" of the old SPANKEY & OUR GANG comedies was a Pitt Bull, too??

TRUTH is that Pitt Bulls are NO more likely, if well-socialized & obedience trained", than any other large dog is to be dangerous. = Face facts, "Pitt HATERS", you don't have a clue & are simply believing the MYTH that is endlessly repeated by the same LIARS of the "mass media" that demonizes guns & gun-owners like the members of this forum.
(My first lap-dog, when I was a little boy was a red-nosed Pitt Bull & "Dopey" loved everyone & would bite nothing more alive than a buttered biscuit.)

yours, tex

Wendy the whippet is like that.

Is that really a dog?

To All,

May I remind everyone that the dog on the RCA records labels was a Pitt Bull & "canine the STAR of the show" of the old SPANKEY & OUR GANG comedies was a Pitt Bull, too??

TRUTH is that Pitt Bulls are NO more likely, if well-socialized & obedience trained", than any other large dog is to be dangerous. = Face facts, "Pitt HATERS", you don't have a clue & are simply believing the MYTH that is endlessly repeated by the same LIARS of the "mass media" that demonizes guns & gun-owners like the members of this forum.
(My first lap-dog, when I was a little boy was a red-nosed Pitt Bull & "Dopey" loved everyone & would bite nothing more alive than a buttered biscuit.)

yours, tex

To All,

May I remind everyone that the dog on the RCA records labels was a Pitt Bull & "canine the STAR of the show" of the old SPANKEY & OUR GANG comedies was a Pitt Bull, too??

TRUTH is that Pitt Bulls are NO more likely, if well-socialized & obedience trained", than any other large dog is to be dangerous. = Face facts, "Pitt HATERS", you don't have a clue & are simply believing the MYTH that is endlessly repeated by the same LIARS of the "mass media" that demonizes guns & gun-owners like the members of this forum.
(My first lap-dog, when I was a little boy was a red-nosed Pitt Bull & "Dopey" loved everyone & would bite nothing more alive than a buttered biscuit.)

yours, tex

May I remind everyone that the dog on the RCA records labels was a Pitt Bull & "canine the STAR of the show" of the old SPANKEY & OUR GANG comedies was a Pitt Bull, too??

Breed Mongrel (part Fox Terrier or Jack Russell Terrier)
Sex Male
Born 1884
Bristol, England
Died 1895 (aged 11)
England

Yep. The genetic defect appears in cattle sometimes too.

https://stories.barkpost.com/wendy-the-whippet/

To All,

May I remind everyone that the dog on the RCA records labels was a Pitt Bull & "canine the STAR of the show" of the old SPANKEY & OUR GANG comedies was a Pitt Bull, too??

TRUTH is that Pitt Bulls are NO more likely, if well-socialized & obedience trained", than any other large dog is to be dangerous. = Face facts, "Pitt HATERS", you don't have a clue & are simply believing the MYTH that is endlessly repeated by the same LIARS of the "mass media" that demonizes guns & gun-owners like the members of this forum.
(My first lap-dog, when I was a little boy was a red-nosed Pitt Bull & "Dopey" loved everyone & would bite nothing more alive than a buttered biscuit.)

yours, tex

ironbender,

And you KNOW that HOW?? - The book JUST ONE OF THE GANG , by one of "the boys" on the OUR GANG comedies says that he was a Pitt Bull.

IF you are correct, what is the difference in an American Bulldog & a Pitt Bull Terrier OR a Am Staff??
(ALL of the bully breeds LOOK the same to me.)

yours, tex

Google-fu.

Wednesday, August 9, 2017

Animal Science Experts on Pit Bulls
Animal Science Experts: Behaviorists, Biologists, Geneticists, Veterinarians, and other science professionals on pit bulls

Karin Pienaar, Animal Behaviorist, Senior Lecturer, DipCABT (COAPE) OCN, CertCAB, CAPBT Practitioner

It's important to understand that when a Pit Bull Terrier is engaged in aggression they are not being vicious, more often they are not having fun - because that is what the dog is bred to do. When a dog is able to do what they've been bred to do they have a huge release of dopamine which makes them feel fantastic.
http://bit.ly/2vGbdgV

Caroline Coile, Ph.D., Canine Research and Writing, author of "Pit Bulls for Dummies," 2015 inductee Dog Writers Association of America Hall of Fame

I am the author of Pit Bulls for Dummies. I will not have another after they, without warning, attacked and almost killed my other dog who they had been best buddies with for their entire lives. One of them choked my saluki unconscious and ran around the house with her like a panther with a dead gazelle while we tried to get her to let go. When they were good, they were delightful; when they were bad, they were deadly.
http://on.fb.me/1MgdlvK

DOUGLAS SKINNER, DVM

I have been in veterinary practice for 43 years and never have seen anything like the infusion of this breed. Having worked with more than 100,000 dogs of all breeds, I defy any apologist to offer up such experience.
Sure, there are sweet pits, but telling one from the bad ones, the Jekyll and Hyde ones that can be incited to violence by some catalyst, is near impossible. While most apologists fancy themselves good trainers, 95 percent of owners are clueless.
http://on.jconline.com/1LyoqLs
http://www.webcitation.org/6c6QRqDdB

MICHAEL D. BREED, Ph.D., Professor, University of Colorado, Dept. of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology

Certain breeds have been selected for enhanced dominance and aggression. Pit bulls and Rottweilers currently receive the most public attention in this regard, and pit bulls have been banned in many locations because they are perceived as being dangerous. While advocates of these breeds claim that maltreatment is a more likely underlying cause of the kind of aggression leading to biting incidents (some of which involve human fatalities), in fact we know that personality is fairly unresponsive to environment. Aggressive and dominant personalities likely only remain in check because dogs' owners have established themselves in a position of dominance over the animal, and other people are at risk, particularly when the owner is absent.
http://bit.ly/1xesqVr 2003

EMILY WEISS, DVM, ASPCA professional contributor

I also think it is very important for us to make clear the breed traits of the dogs when we can identify the breed or breed mix.
We can share both individual dog behavior as identified in the shelter, as well as breed traits – the fact is, if someone wants a dog who points, what would we guide them to – a pointer or a Chihuahua? While we can probably teach that Chi to point, the adopter would be less likely to leave with unrealistic expectations if we sent him home with a pointer. Breed does matter. Physical characteristics lead to increased likelihood of particular behaviors and lines bred specifically for work likely being more pronounced – be it pointing, chasing or even arousal when feeling discomfort.
Ignoring breed can lead us to set dogs up for failure. Recently an individual from a shelter reached out to me for advice after a dog fight. Two, let’s say, JRT-type dogs were introduced for a play group, and while they did well together for the first few minutes, inappropriate behavior of one led to a significant fight that was quite difficult to end. Dogs who tend to grab, hold and not let go in fights with other dogs might not be the best candidates for play groups in shelters with limited resources and limited training. Obviously many JRTs will greatly benefit from play groups, and by noting both the individual behavior and, when possible, the breed, we can assure we apply the right programs for each dog. Now, let’s replace JRT with pit bull terrier in the story above and we may raise a few more eyebrows – but we are not maligning a breed, we are supporting them! http://bit.ly/1toAQ9G

BENJAMIN HART, professor emeritus at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine and animal behaviorist

"It's quite common for a pit bull to show no signs of aggression. People will call it a nice dog, a sweet dog, even the neighbors - and then all of a sudden something triggers the dog, and it attacks a human in a characteristic way of biting and hanging on until a lot of damage is done."
Hart said pit bulls are responsible for about 60 percent of dog attack fatalities each year, which is "way out of proportion" compared with other breeds. Pit bulls make up less than 5 percent of the American dog population.
"It's very poor policy to allow any child around a pit bull, in my mind, let alone climb on a dog."
http://bit.ly/1040Eh1


TARYN BLYTH, Dog Trainer, Animal Behaviorist, DipCABT

No one is saying that a lot of Pit Bulls can’t be “successfully” socialised with other dogs. Many socialised from puppyhood are very friendly and outgoing with other dogs. The problem arises if and when fighting behaviour is triggered. Even if the Pit Bull does not start the fight, getting into conflict with another animal will often trigger their “grab, shake and kill” response.
“Normal” dogs engage in “ritualised” forms of aggression when they come into conflict. This involves lots of noise, but no real damage. However, when Pit Bulls fight they engage the shake-bite/kill-bite part of the predatory sequence with often fatal or near fatal results. There is seldom time to intervene to rescue the other dog before serious damage is done.
When Pit Bulls engage in a fight, far from this inducing an aversive state of mind (most dogs are in a defensive, survival mode during fights), opioids and dopamine are released in their brains making them feel really good - this feeling is so pleasurable that they will often seek out this behaviour again. In the same way that a border collie is built to feel really good when herding sheep, Pit Bulls are built to feel really good when fighting.
Due to the opioid release during fights, Pit Bulls do not feel pain and so fight on regardless of injury - trying to stop a fight is incredibly difficult.
When “normal” dogs fight, they usually respond to appeasement behaviour from their “opponent” i.e. as fighting is not designed to kill, but to resolve conflict without serious harm, one dog may “give in” and display behaviour which will cause the other dog to back off. Pit Bulls do not respond to appeasement behaviour during fights as this would have been counterproductive in the fighting pits and has been bred out of them.
In my experience Pit Bulls have a very low reactivity threshold - this means that stimuli at low intensities which would be ignored by other dogs are often triggers for aggressive behaviour in the breed. They also have very high arousal levels - they become physiologically aroused very quickly and to extreme levels.

One of the huge problems is actually the fact that the breed is extremely friendly and when well-socialised they are usually quite tolerant and very sweet. What people don’t realise is that the danger does not lie in the fearful, defensive under-socialised Pit Bull (as is so often the case with other breeds), it lies in the dog who will be triggered not into defensive behaviour, but into a predatory/fighting behaviour which is enjoyable and carried out in a happy state of mind - therefore a happy, outgoing dog is in this case no guarantee that one will not have a problem. In fact, due to the sociable nature of the dogs and apparent easy-going temperament, Pit Bulls are often put into situations which they are not equipped to handle - this is how so many tragedies occur.
http://bit.ly/2jVOCVf

HUGH WIRTH, veterinarian, RSPCA Victoria president

Dr Hugh Wirth said the dogs were a menace and were not suitable as pets for anyone.
"They are time bombs waiting for the right circumstances.''
"The American pit bull terrier is lethal because it was a breed that was developed purely for dog fighting, in other words killing the opposition.
"They should never have been allowed into the country. They are an absolute menace."
“The fact of life is that the community doesn't want American pit bull terriers. They've said it loud and clear over and over again - they want them banned.”
http://bit.ly/FdHRS


NICHOLAS DODMAN, BVMS, MRCVS, ACVB, ACVA - Animal Behavior Clinic - Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine - Tufts University

After a spate of attacks by pit bulls this summer, Massachusetts lawmakers passed legislation requiring the dogs to be muzzled in public. Some pit bull owners protested, but a Tufts expert says the law may be a good idea. Breeds like pit bulls and Rottweilers, says animal behavior expert Nick Dodman, are hardwired for aggression.
“Some of these dogs are as dangerous as a loaded handgun,” Dodman– director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at TuftsSchool of Veterinary Medicine – said in an interviewwith The Boston Globe Magazine.
Genetics play a big role.
“No doubt about it, pit bulls are genetically predisposed toward aggression,” he told the magazine. “Justas certain breeds of dogs were bred to herd, certain were bred to hunt, certain to point, and others to swim.”
While most pet owners accept that their dogs have certain genetic behavioral characteristics, there is still resistance to the idea that some dogs are more dangerous than others.
“Everybody accepts [genetic behaviors like herding or hunting] until you throw in the word ‘aggression’ and things like a full, crushing bite, which some breeds were specifically bred for in the past.”
http://bit.ly/1hrkCak


KATHERINE HOUPT, VMD, PhD, DACVB

Says Katherine Houpt, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Cornell and author of Domestic Animal Behavior: "Different breeds have genetic predispositions to certain kinds of behavior, though that can be influenced by how they are raised. The pit bull is an innately aggressive breed, often owned by someone who wants an aggressive dog, so they're going to encourage it."
Pit bulls have been bred specifically to be aggressive
http://bit.ly/bdly3O


Kathryn Hawkins, DVM

After seeing another dog die from a pit bull attack, I feel compelled to write. The opinion that pit bulls are "mean because of the way they are raised" is often not the case.
Both of the dogs I took care of that died were attacked unprovoked by pit bulls that were in families that raised them responsibly.
Just as a retriever is bred to hunt birds -- an instinct you can't stop -- many pit bulls have a genetic tendency to attack other animals. When they do, they are extremely powerful and don't quit.
I have never been bitten or growled at by a pit bull -- they are very friendly. But when the instinct to attack another animal occurs, they cause serious damage, or death. They don't bite people any more often than other breeds but when they do, it's bad.
The aggressiveness toward other animals and damage they do is not because of "the way they are raised" -- it is usually due to a genetic instinct not in the control of the owner.
http://bit.ly/GDr2YE

ARTHUR HERM, veterinarian, animal control

He said he disagrees with those people who believe they can train aggressiveness out of dogs, and added he believes aggressiveness is “inherent” and “genetic” in all dogs while pit bulls “seem to have more of that.”
http://bit.ly/15RyBBc

MICHAEL W. FOX, veterinarian, animal behaviorist

"I spent 20 years studying the behavior of dogs and it's not in their nature. Man, has created a monster, If you wish...These dogs were selectively bred to fight, they have greater propensity to fight than other animals, which is brought out in training."
"They can attack people, and because the attitudes of Pit Bulls it is more likely they will attack people. The worry is the power of the dogs jaw...to bite and not let go. It's quite sufficient to crush right through a child's arm or leg."
SHERYL BLAIR, Tufts Veterinary School symposium - Animal Aggression: Dog Bites and the Pit Bull Terrier
Unfortunately the pit bull, when it attacks, doesn't merely bite man—or, most horribly, child—it clamps its powerful jaws down and literally tears its victim apart. "The injuries these dogs inflict are more serious than other breeds because they go for the deep musculature and don't release; they hold and shake…"
http://bit.ly/1gcq0Tf

COLLEEN HODGES, Veterinary Public Health spokeswoman

Some families think that they can raise a loving pet if they treat a pit bull like any other dog. They may not realize that the dog was bred to fight and that some of these dogs may have fighting in their genes.
They are tough, strong, tenacious. They are much more capable of inflicting serious damage, and some of them do. I would not recommend pits as a family dog.
http://bit.ly/18badyp

GARY WILKES, animal behaviorist

No other breed in America is currently bred for fighting, in such great numbers as the American Pit Bull Terrier. No other breed has instinctive behaviors that are so consistently catastrophic when they occur, regardless of how rarely they happen. The reality is that every English Pointer has the ability to point a bird. Every Cattle Dog has the ability to bite the heel of a cow and every Beagle has the ability to make an obnoxious bugling noise when it scents a rabbit or sees a cat walking on the back fence. Realistically, if your English Pointer suddenly and unpredictably points at a bird in the park, nobody cares. If my Heeler nips your ankle, I’m going to take care of your injuries and probably be fined for the incident. If your Beagle bugles too much, you’ll get a ticket for a noise violation. If your Pit Bull does what it’s bred to do...well, you fill in the blank.
http://bit.ly/1aBfJZD

ALEXANDRA SEMYONOVA, animal behaviorist

You will also not prevent the dog from being what he is genetically predisposed to be. Because the inbred postures and behaviors feel good, fitting the body and brain the dog has been bred with, they are internally motivated and internally rewarded. This means that the behavior is practically impossible to extinguish by manipulating external environmental stimuli. The reward is not in the environment, but in the dog itself! As Coppinger and Coppinger (2001, p. 202) put it, “The dog gets such pleasure out of performing its motor pattern that it keeps looking for places to display it.” Some dogs get stuck in their particular inbred motor pattern.
As pointed out above, this kind of aggression has appeared in some other breeds as an unexpected and undesired anomaly – the golden retriever, the Berner Senne hund, the cocker spaniel have all had this problem.The lovers of aggressive breeds try to use these breeding accidents to prove that their aggressive breeds are just like any other dog, “see, they’re no different from the cuddly breeds.” But a cuddly breed sometimes ending up stuck with a genetic disaster does not prove that the behavior is normal canine behavior. All it proves is that the behavior is genetically determined.
http://bit.ly/92dzd


JOHN FAUL, animal behaviorist

Faul said they were dangerous and a threat to life. He said the pitbull was bred to be absolutely fearless and had a "hair-trigger" attack response.
"The cardinal rule is that these dogs are not pets," he said.
"The only way to keep them is in a working environment."
He said the only relationship one could have with the pitbull was one of "dominance, sub-dominance", in which the dog was reminded daily of its position.
http://bit.ly/162ymZo


ANDREW ROWAN, PhD, Center for Animals and Public Policy - Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine - Tufts University

"A pit bull is trained to inflict the maximum amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. Other dogs bite and hold. A Doberman or a German shepherd won't tear if you stand still. A pit bull is more likely to remove a piece of tissue. Dogs fight as a last resort under most circumstances. But a pit bull will attack without warning. If a dog shows a submissive characteristic, such as rolling over most dogs wills top their attack. A pit bull will disembowel its victim."
"A study by Dr Randall Lockwood of the US Humane Society found that pit bulls are more likely to break restraints to attack someone and that pit bulls are more likely to attack their owners, possibly as a result of owners trying to separate their dogs from victims."
http://bit.ly/19HYAvc


ALAN BECK, Sc.D

However, Alan Beck, director of the Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine Center of the Human-Animal Bond, favors letting the breed go into extinction.
“This breed alone is a risk of serious public health factors,” Beck said. “We are keeping them alive against their own best interests.”
Beck said while he does not advocate taking dogs from current and caring owners, he does feel that it has become more of a social and political issue for people than a health one.
“If these dogs were carrying an actual disease, people would advocate euthanizing them,” Beck said. “This breed itself is not natural.”
"It has this sort of mystique that attracts a population of people. Of course, most of these dogs are never going to bite, as champions of the breed will tell you. But most people who smoke don't get cancer, but we know regulations help reduce a significant risk."
"I know you're going to get beat up for this. But they just aren't good dogs to own. That's why so many of them are relinquished to shelters. There are too many other breeds out there to take a chance on these guys."
http://bit.ly/19LBioj


Adapted with thanks from Craven Desires
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Defending Pitt Bulls is akin to defending liberalism, Only the blind among us do it.

supercrewd,

My point is that it's NOT that Pitt Bulls are any more dangerous than any other large/strong breed of dog BUT that it is 100% the FAULT of the PEOPLE that failed to socialize and/or properly train their dogs AND/OR that many thugs/criminals INTENTIONALLY train their dogs to attack other canines/people.

ANY of the large breeds can be IMPROPERLY trained & made into DANGEROUS "junkyard dogs", that FEW people have any legitimate need of having.

Here in The Alamo City we are TRYING hard to have a "no kill city.county animal shelter" & are making GOOD progress toward that worthy goal BUT we are still (SADLY!!) having to "put down" a considerable number of dogs that were INTENTIONALLY MADE into DANGEROUS WEAPONS by FOOLS, HATERS & OUTRIGHT CRIMINALS.
(Recently, the BCSO seized 5 LARGE & UNCONTROLLABLE "mutts" of no particular breed, from a group of drug-peddling criminals down in "Southside SA". = ALL of the five had to be "put down" by the animal shelter staff, as they were definitely VICIOUS.)

yours, tex.

31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.

Denver has it right...

http://www.westword.com/news/leaked-photos-of-pit-bulls-killed-due-to-denver-ban-5877914

ANY of the large breeds can be IMPROPERLY trained & made into DANGEROUS "junkyard dogs", that FEW people have any legitimate need of having.

31 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2016. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 900 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 71% (22) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.

Family dogs inflicted 45% (14) of all deaths in 2016; family pit bulls accounted for 86% (12) of these deaths, up from an 11-year average of 63%. Of the 22 fatal pit bull attacks, 55% (12) involved a family or household member vs. 45% (10) non-family.


DogsBite.org

Triggernosis; All,

Once more for the FEW obviously OVERLY HYSTERICAL, NAIVE, terminally IGNORANT, insanely PREJUDICED & even a few STUPID people here on the forum, GO RE-READ my comments about "pitt bull statistics" in posts # 12476437, # 12477576 AND especially # 12477524, if your mind is not "closed for the season"..
(I see no good reason to repeat myself, especially for those who REFUSE to see that they are WRONG.)

Fwiw, I was a Army Military Police SNCO & Commissioned Officer (YES, I have both enlisted & commissioned time in the USA.) for about 3 decades & KNOW a great deal more than 90% of the members of this forum about Personal Protection Dogs, guard dogs, patrol dogs & other sorts of trained working caniines.
(Not only was I a MP Canine handler for 5+years but I supervised the Kennel Master, the Canine Handlers & other MPs for over 15 years at five major posts in CONUS & OCONUS too & unlike most of the "pitt bull HATERS" here, I know what I'm talking about.).

ImVho, the people here who (absent KNOWLEDGE) reflexively FEAR any breed of dog are the SAME sort of MORON who fears "assault weapons", handguns in civilian hands & even those pitiful FOOLS & IDIOTS who want to forbid anyone from owning firearms of any sort.

To those here who threaten to kill any pitt bull that they encounter (especially here in Texas), be aware that you are likely, after killing someone's dog (because of your foolish, hysterical, ignorant & stupid attitude), are likely to be arrested for a felony/indicted/tried/convicted/incarcerated in a penal institution for a long time.

yours for commonsense, intelligence & facts, tex
Major, USAMPC, Retired

I suggest that you stay OUT of Texas, as our folks can probably LAWFULLY "defend their valuable property" AND may also take civil action against you for destroying their personal property. = You won't enjoy a trip to the ER, possible bankruptcy and/or several years in Huntsviille. - FACT.

Triggernosis,


Reference "pitt bull attack figures", Did you miss that ANY canine of ANY sort (from a 4# Yorkie to a HUGE Mastiff/Great Dane) is identified by the NYT Style Guide as a "pit bull" & that is WHERE all those "scary-sounding stories" came from. - The "biting" canine is just as likely to be a MUTT, a Collie, a Yorkie, an English Pointer, a foxhound or even a Poodle as a Pitt Bull or any other working breed. REMEMBER: The NYT Style Guide describes ANY dog that harms persons or damages property as a "Pit Bull". ====> That is FACT, whether you want to admit the LIES told with the MORON LEFT's"figures" or NOT.
(Believing the "Pitt Bull attack SCARE stories" is just as FALSE & FOOLISH as a person believing that Chevrolet Corvette sports cars are involved in the vast majority of TA fatalities.)

Actually, I'm suggesting that several people here of your opinion on this thread have too little knowledge to have an informed/intelligent opinion & are just RANTING foolishly. = Those rants sound like those of a HYSTERIC & (pardon me) a naive/ignorant DOLT, who "knows NOT & knows NOT that they know NOT".
(Learning FACTS & remaining silent until you understand those facts, keeps a person from LOOKING like a DUNCE.)

yours, tex

Triggernosis; All,

Once more for the FEW obviously OVERLY HYSTERICAL, NAIVE, terminally IGNORANT, insanely PREJUDICED & even a few STUPID people here on the forum, GO RE-READ my comments about "pitt bull statistics" in posts # 12476437, # 12477576 AND especially # 12477524, if your mind is not "closed for the season"..
(I see no good reason to repeat myself, especially for those who REFUSE to see that they are simply misinformed & 100% WRONG.)

Fwiw, I was a Army Military Police SNCO & Commissioned Officer (YES, I have both enlisted & commissioned time in the USA.) for about 3 decades & KNOW a great deal more than 90% of the members of this forum about Personal Protection Dogs, guard dogs, patrol dogs & other sorts of trained working caniines.
(Not only was I a MP Canine handler for 5+years but I supervised the Kennel Master, the Canine Handlers & other MPs for over 15 years at five major posts in CONUS & OCONUS too & unlike most of the "pitt bull HATERS" here, I know what I'm talking about.).

ImVho, the people here who (absent KNOWLEDGE) reflexively FEAR any breed of dog are the SAME sort of MORON who fears "assault weapons", handguns in civilian hands & even those pitiful FOOLS & IDIOTS who want to forbid anyone from owning firearms of any sort.

To those here who threaten to kill any pitt bull that they encounter (especially here in Texas), be aware that you are likely, after killing someone's dog (because of your foolish, hysterical, ignorant & stupid attitude), are likely to be arrested for a felony/indicted/tried/convicted/incarcerated in a penal institution for a long time.

yours for commonsense, intelligence & facts, tex
Major, USAMPC, Retired

I found some pit bull porn...

http://www.pblnn.com/

Who died and made you king of the dog threads?

Triggernosis; ironbender,

SO you deny that IF any media report that uses the NYTSG (as over 95% of media "outlets" DO), they can report a bite by a Pomeranian as a dog-bite by a Pitt Bull, = It's called: LYING WITH STATISTICS, "building market share" & "selling soap".
(The INTENT of such "reporting" is to DECEIVE, INFLAME the EMOTIONS of & to FRIGHTEN the public w/o legitimate reason..).

What I'm saying is that the people who (absent education & practical experience) believe what the "mainstream press" publishes/broadcasts are being PLAYED FOR CHUMPS.
(Is that plain enough for you??.)

Tell me:
1. How much formal PROFESSIONAL TRAINING do you have in handling/training working dogs??
2. How many working dogs have you OWNED and/or WORKED" in any field environment??
and
3.. How m any years of PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE do you have in handling working dogs and/or supervising their proper use??

IF your truthful answers are : NONE, NONE & NONE. you don't have an educated opinion, are being DUPED & likely be those people in the press who know just as little as you do.
(That's called: SHARED IGNORANCE.).

yours, tex

RickyD,

Don't make any wagers, as you'll likely lose your money.

NOPE I'm NOT self-impressed. - I was simply been "school-trained" by experts in canine behavior/management/utilization & have numerous years of practical experience, that evidently few here have.
(Unlike some members, I make a point of NOT " ranting on & on" about subjects of which I know little or nothing. - You won'y find me commenting on the finer points of many subjects on this forum; instead, I read the contributions of members who KNOW the facts & otherwise "keep silent", other than to ask an occasional question.)

IF that offends you, feel free to disagree & continue in your lack of knowledge/experience. = Truthfully, I couldn't care less about those naive/ignorant/uneducated persons, who WON'T SEE the facts but who nonetheless "bless everyone" with their untutored opinions..

yours, tex

One doesn't have to possess professional experience with a subject to know some pretty important info about it.
For example, I have pretty much zero experience with electricity, but I know that live bare wires will shock the shyt out of you.

on Average 10 kids die every day of the year in a swimming pool, wouldn't it be more productive to go after swimming pools or is it just not as shocking as a dog killing a kid?

I mean if we are going to do something lets do something that really makes the numbers pop.

It's probably me being overly squeamish, but I find it much more shocking when a dog eats a person's face off than when a child drowns in a pool.

12344MAG,

Don't confuse the trolls, the terminally ignorant & hate-FILLED ranters with FACTS, as they cannot make a cogent argument in response. = Instead, they'll complain & make silly remarks about your correct/knowlegable opinions.

yours, tex

on Average 10 kids die every day of the year in a swimming pool, wouldn't it be more productive to go after swimming pools or is it just not as shocking as a dog killing a kid?

I mean if we are going to do something lets do something that really makes the numbers pop.

12344MAG,

Don't confuse the trolls, the terminally ignorant & hate-FILLED ranters with FACTS, as they cannot make a cogent argument in response. = Instead, they'll complain & make silly remarks about your correct/knowlegable opinions.

yours, tex

"...According to the World Health Organization, drowning is the leading cause of unintentional death in the world, with 372,000 drowning deaths reported annually.

The Centers for Disease Control report that here in the United States, on average, 3,536 people died from drowning annually from 2005 to 2014, which equates to 10 deaths each day...

from web site https://www.edgarsnyder.com/swimming-pool/swimming-pool-statistics.html

I think the 10 per day is all ages drowning in all water sources, but, I could be wrong! Apparently Americans die 100x less than the rest of the world from drowning, Interesting.

[quote=las]I can count on no finger how many times I've seen a woman be the Alpha. Women should only own foofoo dogs.

Bocefish,

It could well be that she adopted those dogs & was NOT told that they were made dangerous. = IF that is the case, then it is the fault of the Adoption SAgency people.

yours, tex

Miami-Dade Animal Services disregards the law

Sadly, the dogs who killed those three victims were each intentionally mislabeled by Miami-Dade Animal Services chief of shelter operations and enforcement Kathleen Labrada as breeds not covered by the 1989 pit bull ban, despite clear language in the ordinance stipulating that it applies to any dog of characteristics which “substantially conform” to several recognized definitions of “pit bull.”

Mislabeling these killer dogs, I believe, disingenuously misled the public in two ways.

First, the deaths of Dade, Reigada, and Espinosa made clear that Miami-Dade Animal Services had not been enforcing the pit bull ban, as the department was mandated and paid to do.

Second, not enforcing the pit bull ban allowed Miami-Dade Animal Services to boast of reducing shelter intake and shelter killing, boosting their public image at cost to public safety.

kid0917,

I suspect that the USA is way down on the percentage drowning figures because we routinely teach children & adults to swim. - That doesn't happen in a lot of World cultures.
(In more than one African culture, which makes a large part of the GNP from commercial fishing, many local folks drown despite living on the riverbank & seashore. - In those cultures fisherman, who fall overboard, routinely drown as learning to swim is uncommon there.)

yours, tex

No Paul, I will not answer your questions.

Birdwatcher,

Fwiw, leaving a PPD (in her "working collar") "unsupervised" at ANY time is as negligent as leaving a loaded gun where it can be taken/misused by an irresponsible/untrained person. = That's why relatively FEW people NEED a PPD and/or are knowledgeable/well-trained enough to actually utilize one properly. And YES, such a "deadly weapon" MUST be insured for the owner's liability for negligence/misuse.
(It took me several tries to get Dolly to let my late wife feed her and/or let her outside to relieve herself. = Dolly had been "poison-proofed" & would only eat/drink from her own bowls. Further, MOST every PPD will NOT work for anyone but "their person", who owns them/knows the proper cues.)


I cannot resist recalling one instance where Dolly was needed: About 2300 on 16APR1994, I exited my POV in downtown _____________ & was faced with a 23YO local thug, who "came at me" with a 9"-bladed knife. Given her cue, Dolly took the thug down & within 30 seconds he was "subdued", I called her off & he was thereafter transported by the police to a local ER.
(About 10 days later, he was released by the doctors & into the custody of the National Police for trial. = Over 300 stitches were required to close his wounds to his "knife hand", lower right arm, face & neck. - I doubt if he ever used his right hand properly again..)

yours, tex

In a pack (that is one dog, one person minimum), there is only one boss.

She wasn't it.

curdog4570,

IF simply defending your loved ones & one's self from armed vicious criminals, by any lawful means, makes a person a "BA", I plead, "guilty as charged".
(FYI, I do NOT "go looking for trouble" since I retired as a peace officer but our family is watchful & prepared to defend home & hearth, lest trouble should come looking for us.)


yours, tex

BillyGoatGruff,

"Looking for trouble" & HOPEFULLY stopping "trouble" before it gets worse is a portion of the sworn duty of a peace officer. - Did you believe that LEOs only respond to crimes after the fact??

"Looking for trouble" is a part of crime PREVENTION.

yours, tex

Wow 19 pages

According to the theory, every member of the pack will "defer to" & "fight to the death" to protect the Alpha's mate AND her offspring.

My computer shows 8 pages of being lectured to by some blowhard with an irrational desire to change everyone's opinion.
Mine is that I will not trust a pitbull farther than I can kick them or flatten them.

I think what some here are missing is that probably 90%+ of the humans that own Pitbulls are not prepared to train and continue the training that is needed to maintain Alpha status.
Much less ensuring the dog recognizes that family members are Alpha over the dog.

I've worked with dogs almost all of my life.
Trained a good number of them and helped with a bunch more.
Dogs, unless they get extensive training, are never 100% reliable. One can trust them almost completely, but most will lose their hearing and ignore commands given sufficient temptation/provocation.

Given the fact that it seems most of our population can't discipline their kids, who has any confidence that they can train a dog.