Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why not Metric in the US?

"...French toast, and French fries ..."

French fries and french toast are NOT french.

I beg to differ. The metric system is MUCH easier to use; you just move a decimal point and you've got a new descripter. With fractions and decimals, it is more difficult. The metric system is a logical system that makes scientific sense; the English (or American) system) requires the use of mathmatics to convert fractions of an inch into inches, inches into feet, feet into yards, yards into miles, ounces into pounds, etc.

I was employed at the US Department of Transportation 30 years ago and worked on the metric conversion program. The resistance came from the public (too difficult to learn - not true, but an objection) to local public agencies (all land measurements, such as real estate records are English and conversion would be expensive).

All other countries have adopted the metric system, as have all companies that sell in the international market (e.g., GM, Boeing, IBM, Catipiller, etc.). This is important if they are to remain competitive and keep jobs at home (well, some of them).

I still say that converting all of our machines and tooling to metric would be a huge cost, for every industry using heavy machines.

Don

Strange how the 264 Winchester fizzled and the 7mm Magnum caught on in a big way? A fluke I guess. I think my 35 Whelen is actually a 9x63, either way I like it best of all. Although the 9.3X64 Brenneke would have suited me just as well for bear and moose. I don't think you could buy shells for that at Fleet Farm though.
whelennut

I believe there's a certain amount of inferiority complex involved in the metric/US standard measurement system debate.

Yes, sometimes the arithmetic is easier for the metric system. But sometimes its easier with the US or British systems (they're not the same; its an amusing read as to why, and you'll find out why there is more than one standard US Foot). The "King's anatomy" system makes it easy to divide by 2, 3, and 4. A 4x8 ft sheet of plywood can be divided into thirds nicely without fractions for example.

But folks in Britain and then America managed to dominate the world economy using the King's anatomy, so how bloody hard is it really? If your lathe operator can't convert 13/64" to 0.203125", do you really want him operating a somewhat dangerous power tool? Ironically, while we Americans keep dumbing down mathematics education in our public schools, countries like Singapore are teaching statistics and probability to their high schoolers so they can step right into statistical quality control class in their workplace. If a foreign customer demands products or parts in standard metric sizes, we can do that. But converting to the metric system isn't going to make us cost competitive with Asia, so the export thing is a very weak argument IMHO. BTW, the differential drain plug on my old Toyota pickup had a really obscure English head size, something like 27/32". Not close to any standard metric socket, plus there was a protective lip welded around the bolt head to prevent use of an adjustable end wrench. Thus a special trip to Sears to buy an SAE socket that had one and only one use. I will admit that Toyota designed the thing so that 95% of all routine maintenance and component replacements could be done with a middlin' sized Phillips screwdriver and two 12mm box end wrenches. Something Detroit still hasn't figured out obviously.

But in the US I think much of the drive to convert comes from this persistent notion that if its European, its better. This concious or subconcious mindset appears in all sorts of arenas, from culture, politics, fashion, cuisine, walnut, you name it. There's rarely any data or analysis to back it up, its usually a case of proof by assertion. Supersonic flight, manned missions landing on the moon, development of the Internet router, multimode fiber optic data transmission, all done by we poor, ignorant Bible-thumping colonials. But we're still expected to drop what we're doing and go Euro, because its better.

Except the 6.5mm and 7mm bore sizes. And really the prediliction of those pesky Euros for high sectional density. Its those long 140 grain bullets which makes the 6.5 great, and likewise the prevalence of 140 grainers for medium and 175 grainers for big game in the 7mm. Once you get above 7mm, there's nothing a metric caliber does that is any better than English equivalents. Lots of love lately for the 9.3, but the .358 bore ain't got warts on it, nor the .375. And for purpose built dangerous game rifles, .416 and .458 do what needs doin'.

How come nobody bellyaches about shotgun gauges? If metric is inherently superior, lets throw out 12, 16, 20, and 28 gauge, and use 70/60/50 millimeters or whatever.

I'm with you there, Bristoe. I run a metrology lab.

My $0.02 on this thread:
The 7mm-08 is my favorite cartridge, and
I also, hate having to hit 1 for English! That frys my arse!

I believe in maximun choice. With cartridges we have our American cartridges mostly in inches, still a few British cartridges in inches, plus all those Metric rounds. Why go all metric and reduce our choices?

Let's face it, we can work and think in either system with no problems.

The problems come up when we must change from what we are used to doing, or convert units and measures from one system to another.

The only thing worse is trying to work in a mixed system as we do now.

KenO

Neither am I, but I still like the style of kissing we call "French"





And how is this different than today?

In our industry, most of the machines in our factories have been built in Europe. But our Store room still insists on stocking SAE bolts to clamp that machine to the deck, or to install pipe flanges.

A total conversion to metric would be a lot cheaper, and it would not take long to realize the savings.

The only confusion results from the continued mixing of the two systems, and the converting of units between them.

Even if America sometimes in the future would change to the metric system people over the whole world will still say 30-06 and 375H&H. And we will still used grains in reloading.

What I don't understand ;americans use the imperial(I would call it english) system for measuring, but you drive at the right side of the road. Not left like the british and many Commonwealth countries.

Damned right!

When I was a kid back in the 1960s, they tried to push the metric system on us in school. It was a big push too. Since our parents didn't use it, though, and it wasn't used anywhere else in our regular day to day lives, it didn't stick, and I think they basically gave up. The only way for it to work would be to require by law that the old system not be used on anything by companies doing business in the US, and require schools to teach it, and nothing else. But we don't live in a dictatorship like the rest of the world does, and that's why we still use the system passed to us by our parents.

Everybody okay with metric currency?

Anybody here want to switch to a dollar with 20 dimes? Twelve pennies to the dime?

That's the system we had before the Revolution. Worked good. Wasn't broken and it didn't need fixing.

I blame that Frenchman, LaFayette, for meddling.

- TJM

Poor me that live in a dictatorship.
Wait a minute! In my country we can use dogs when hunting big game, but not in America. What sort of free country is that?
Perhaps a country with laws is not a mark of dictatorship?

Unless I'm mistaken, hunting with dogs is a State by State matter, not a uniform Federal law imposed on all. Some States use dogs for hunting big game. Our hunting laws are largely based on our local hunting traditions. Some States have a strong tradition of using dogs for hunting, and some don't. The laws reflect the local traditions. I don't call that dictatorship.

My point is that you can't call other countries dictatorship just because they have laws you don't like.I'am sure there are many ridicolous laws in America, just as in many other
countries.
And metric systems in many countries have of course a lot to do with tradition.

Your sentence:"But we don't live in a dictatorship like the rest of the world does...." What shall we say abou that?

America does not use the Imperial measurement system. The correct name is U.S. customary units. Imperial was a reformed English measurement system devised after the metric system. The Imperial gallon weighs (I recall) 10 pounds of water exactly. The U.S. pint is derived from an older English volume measurement, and there is roughly--but not exactly--8 pounds of water in a U.S. gallon.

As for which side of the road, America was settled by many different European groups. However, if I recall, the selection was more to be different from the British, just to flaunt our independence.

My point was that I am fairly certain that when European countries adopted the Metric System, most people would have preferred to continue using the system their parent's used. The fact that they changed to the Metric System is evidence, I contend, that this system was forced, by some powerful elite class, on the majority against their will. Am I mistaken? If that's not dictatorship, what is?

Of course it would be a huge cost, though the rest of the world has already been there.

I wonder how much it affects the US's ability to sell its products overseas.

This debate is of course turning OT.
Just because a country have laws we don't like that's not dictatorship. I'am sure not all americans like all the laws in the USA. Does that make it OK to call it dictatorship?
If the US goverment wants to raise to taxes (not that they are going to) many people will of course not like it, but they still have to pay the taxes. Is that dictatorship?

BTW in my country we use the metric system, but I have never seen a law forbidden me to use the US og english system.And of course we can buy tools using the "inch scale".

In aviation almost every country use feets not meters. What if some countries suddenly said ;now we are going to use the metric system. "Because we won't let other countries decide what we should use.We don't like dictatorship." That would mean a lot of trouble.

We don't need to use the same measuring systems for everything, but it makes somethings much easier.And it is possible to agree about one standard, just think about the NATO caliber 7.62x51 or for hunters better known as 308win(even if they are not 100% equal).