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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,114 Likes: 2 |
I thought he shortened the Velodogs and turned them rimless too. Am I mis-remembering?
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,170 Likes: 17 |
Yet another reason for choosing O'Connor as gun columnist at OL was the fact that he'd been freelancing for the magazine for a number of years, and had not only proven reliable in producing readable copy but likable to the readers, who often wrote to the editor to tell him so.
One way NOT to get a regular work in the hunting/gun writing business is to whine to magazine editors they're dumb for not publishing your work, instead of the writers they're using. I know of at least two instances of this happening during the past decade or so, and neither writer ever appeared in those magazines again.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,264 Likes: 3 |
I read somewhere that Jacks powder scale was found to be out of whack by a couple grains, cant remember where I read that, the scale was sold at auction ???
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,166 |
Askins the Younger had knowledge and experience, but a glance at his work reveals that his writing was lazy to the point of being sloppy. He had also pissed off a lot of people by gaming the rules to win a national pistol title at Camp Perry (back when sportsmanship mattered), and he had earned a reputation for dozens of unjustified killings during his Border Patrol years.
Okie John
In addition to pissing people off (something that Charlie apparently relished in) Askins was banned from the NRA for 30 years because of that stunt.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
I thought he shortened the Velodogs and turned them rimless too. Am I mis-remembering? Shortened the case, for sure. I'm not sure if he cut the rim down, or if so, how much. He obviously altered the Woodsman accordingly. Now, he went to a lot of trouble just to make a point and stick his finger in the eye of the rules folks. Ole Charlie just loved doing stuff like that... He was an ornery cuss, no doubt about that... DF
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,114 Likes: 2 |
I wonder how many Millennials are following this thread. I daresay when we grey-headed fellas are gone there won't be much said about JOC, EK, Askins, et al.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,611 |
I wonder how many Millennials are following this thread. I daresay when we grey-headed fellas are gone there won't be much said about JOC, EK, Askins, et al. Sad to say, you are probably correct in your assessment. We are a dying breed.
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths. "there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser" "the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,114 Likes: 2 |
I daresay John Barsness has done a pretty fair job of keeping literacy in the genre of gun writing- much in the spirit of JOC in my opinion. Perhaps that is why I enjoy reading his stuff...
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,336 |
I am reminded (yet again) of the eulogy I wrote for Big Stick back in 2007 before I knew he'd just been kicked off the forum instead of just dying. I quote it in part:
"Years ago," said Chin. "My buddy Lao Tse died. A few of us over at the monastery decided to go over and pay our respects. So I get to the funeral home and there are all these monks, disciples of Lao Tse, acting like a bunch of women. They're crying, they're wailing, they're pulling their clothes, they're falling on the floor and rolling around, and the noise? It sounded like they were slaughtering sheep!
"So I went in and I let out three big wails, and then I turned to my buddies and told them 'Let's blow this place. I know a bar around the corner that has cheap buckets of Miller until Five.' One of the monks gets off the floor and runs over to us.
"'Where are you going?' asked this monk. 'Is that all you can summon for your friend? Three lousy little wails?'
"That's when I got steamed. I went around the parlor, kicking butt. I knocked those monks upside the head with my staff. I kicked their sorry backsides. I put a hurt on them like they had never seen. 'I'll give you something to wail about!' I said.
"'But Master!, said the monks. 'This was your best friend.'
"'No!' I said. 'I can see Lao Tse was a fool. And you are all fools too. I had believed him to be the man of all men, but now I know that he was not. When I went in to mourn, I found old persons weeping as if for their children, young ones wailing as if for their mothers. And for him to have gained the attachment of those people in this way, he too must have uttered words which should not have been spoken, and dropped tears which should not have been shed, thus violating eternal principles, increasing the sum of human emotion, and forgetting the source from which his own life was received. The ancients called such emotions the trammels of mortality. The Master came, because it was his time to be born; he went, because it was his time to die. For those who accept the phenomenon of birth and death in this sense, lamentation and sorrow have no place.'
"I kicked all their sorry butts, and as I left, I told them this: ' There was a fire. It burned brightly once, and now it is gone. It may burn elsewhere in this world, I know not where, but these sticks have burned out and grown cold. '"
With this, the Chinaman got up from the mound of dirt and walked over to the little campfire that someone had left. With his boot, he kicked the embers. A few were still hot, and once they hit the snow, they sizzled and went out.
"Just like this." said Chin. "And then I walked out of there and got drunk with my friends."
I'm not a millenial, I'm a baby boomer that started reading Outdoor life in 1965. Although I knew O'Connor's writings, I was not all that taken with him or Keith or Askins. Truthfully? I get so much more from y'all than I ever did from reading magazines. You all may be a bunch of loons, but you are a good lot and you mostly mean well, and you're not trying to sell me anything.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
I daresay John Barsness has done a pretty fair job of keeping literacy in the genre of gun writing- much in the spirit of JOC in my opinion. Perhaps that is why I enjoy reading his stuff... +1 DF
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
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I offended wondered about Keith/O'Conners feud. It seems that once in a while they might have shared a hunt together. I started to read all the gun writers back in the late fifty's early sixties and found O'Conner wordy. I liked Keith because he wrote of his experiences along with his opinions which I mostly agreed with. Especially heavy for caliber bullets at more modest velocity. Other writers I liked that you don't heat about anymore that I liked is John Jobson, Pete Brown (both Sports Afield), Townsend Whelen and Bert Poposki. Imagine those two standing side by side smiling.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson, 1776
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Imagine those two standing side by side smiling. I don't have to imagine ! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
I saw Charlie, EK and JOC at the 1970 NRA meeting in New Orleans. Elmer wore his big hat, wandered into the Ruger booth, examined the then new Security Six. He handled it, told Mr. Vogel to "wrap it up", in essence they had his OK to produce it. Mr. Vogel was very cordial to him. I learned later that he was Bill Ruge's SIL, and a high ranking executive in the company. Very nice man. JOC had a regal bearing, was friendly visiting with his fans. I watched as Charlie headed from the hotel to the French Quarter, at night and by himself. I had the thought, wondering if he knew that wasn't the best part of town and I sure wouldn't head in that direction at night and alone. After reading "Unrepentent Sinner", I think he was quite OK... Don't think the natives would have bothered with him, not more than once... DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,761 |
I offended wondered about Keith/O'Conners feud. It seems that once in a while they might have shared a hunt together. I started to read all the gun writers back in the late fifty's early sixties and found O'Conner wordy. I liked Keith because he wrote of his experiences along with his opinions which I mostly agreed with. Especially heavy for caliber bullets at more modest velocity. Other writers I liked that you don't heat about anymore that I liked is John Jobson, Pete Brown (both Sports Afield), Townsend Whelen and Bert Poposki. Imagine those two standing side by side smiling. It appears this group of gun writers are holding Winchester model 50's likely attending a marketing trip for gunwriters hosted by Winchester a Nilo Farms.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
I offended wondered about Keith/O'Conners feud. It seems that once in a while they might have shared a hunt together. I started to read all the gun writers back in the late fifty's early sixties and found O'Conner wordy. I liked Keith because he wrote of his experiences along with his opinions which I mostly agreed with. Especially heavy for caliber bullets at more modest velocity. Other writers I liked that you don't heat about anymore that I liked is John Jobson, Pete Brown (both Sports Afield), Townsend Whelen and Bert Poposki. Imagine those two standing side by side smiling. It appears this group of gun writers are holding Winchester model 50's likely attending a marketing trip for gunwriters hosted by Winchester a Nilo Farms. OK, a challenge for the old guys, name the gun writers in the picture. I think that they are as follows: FRONT ROW from Left to Right: Ray Ovington, Larry Koller, Tom Siatos, ???, ??? BACK ROW from Left to Right: ???, John Amber, Pete Kuhlhoff, Warren Page, JOC, EK
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
I have a few pounds of vintage H-4831; it came in paper bags back in the '60's.
When the paper bags started breaking down, I transfered the powder to empty powder containers, appropriately labeled with a Magic Marker.
It smells good, no brown dust, shoots great. I think it may be a tad slower than current H-4831.
DF at one time it could be bought in a metal big cannister holding like 50pounds, pull down powder when hodgden started out. I have smelled that WWII powder and if stored properly it still works.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,915 Likes: 9 |
[/u]I offended wondered about Keith/O'Conners feud. It seems that once in a while they might have shared a hunt together. I started to read all the gun writers back in the late fifty's early sixties and found O'Conner wordy. I liked Keith because he wrote of his experiences along with his opinions which I mostly agreed with. Especially heavy for caliber bullets at more modest velocity. Other writers I liked that you don't heat about anymore that I liked is John Jobson, Pete Brown (both Sports Afield), Townsend Whelen and Bert Poposki. Imagine those two standing side by side smiling. It appears this group of gun writers are holding Winchester model 50's likely attending a marketing trip for gunwriters hosted by Winchester a Nilo Farms. OK, a challenge for the old guys, name the gun writers in the picture. I think that they are as follows: FRONT ROW from Left to Right: Ray Ovington, Larry Koller, Tom Siatos, ???, ??? BACK ROW from Left to Right: ???, John Amber, Pete Kuhlhoff, Warren Page, JOC, EK
According to [u]Hell, I Was There (and you weren't ) the back row is Bill Edwards, John Amber, Pete Kuhloff, Warren Page, Jack O'Connor, and Elmer Keith. The front row is Ray Ovington, Larry Kohler, Tom Siatos, Pete Brown, and Jack Seville. I am not familiar with all of them, and would appreciate if someone could provide their backgrounds.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I have a few pounds of vintage H-4831; it came in paper bags back in the '60's.
When the paper bags started breaking down, I transfered the powder to empty powder containers, appropriately labeled with a Magic Marker.
It smells good, no brown dust, shoots great. I think it may be a tad slower than current H-4831.
DF D F I have 'almost' 10 lbs of Surplus 4831. It came in a Military Powder Can --IN paper & plastic bag. I'm using it in my 284 Win with great results Yes RoninPhx, you are correct. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 12/21/17.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
According to Hell, I Was There (and you weren't ) the back row is Bill Edwards, John Amber, Pete Kuhloff, Warren Page, Jack O'Connor, and Elmer Keith. The front row is Ray Ovington, Larry Kohler, Tom Siatos, Pete Brown, and Jack Seville. I am not familiar with all of them, and would appreciate if someone could provide their backgrounds. Very Interesting ! I have the book but don't remember that. Several of those I am not familiar with either. Thanks for posting that. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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According to Hell, I Was There (and you weren't ) the back row is Bill Edwards, John Amber, Pete Kuhloff, Warren Page, Jack O'Connor, and Elmer Keith. The front row is Ray Ovington, Larry Kohler, Tom Siatos, Pete Brown, and Jack Seville. I am not familiar with all of them, and would appreciate if someone could provide their backgrounds. Very Interesting ! I have the book but don't remember that. Several of those I am not familiar with either. Thanks for posting that. Jerry Ray Ovington wrote one of the great fly fishing for trout books, "Tactics On Trout". Larry Koller wrote one of the great whitetail deer hunting books, "Shots At Whitetails". I don't know what Bill Edwards or Jack Seville were known for.
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