Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics I am going to lose my scheit on Leupold....

I saw more ACOGs fail then I did Mk4's. Now... they were standard issue on every rifle, so every cat had one, so numbers probably don't matter. Not an indictment of Trijicon, they make a grunt proof scope, but I don't recall Leupold MK4 failures being an issue. I'm sure some did but if it were systemic, I would have heard about it.

The variable MK4s I was around in the Army most certainly had problems. In fact, I had to yank the 3.5-10 off my M14 in Iraq and go back to iron sights after the scope quit.

So nobody has actually lost their sheit? It’s starting to sound like we won’t have to cancel Christmas.

In all honesty, this thread hasn’t convinced me to change my position on owning and using Leupold. Personal experience has been pretty good.

Many here seem more conflicted with their price point than their performance. If you need to spend more, or less, nothing is stopping you.

No offense... they were well regarded because dudes didn't know any better. When your only experience is with a 4x Acog mounted on a non floated M16 shooting greentip; a 3-9x Leupold on a MK12 or SDM rifle with 77gr SMK's is worlds better. Just about any optic/gun/ammo combination is better. There is a reason the 8541's weren't using Leupolds....


Leupold Mark 4 variables have the highest failure rates of any US mil issued sniper optic. Roughly 20 times higher than Nightforce and twice as high as the PSR S&B's. Those are/were the numbers returned to Crane. That's outright failures- not including all the scopes that track and adjust incorrectly, lose zero, failure to return to zero, etc, etc. I've seen hundreds of Mark 4's tested. Fully 30% have major problems out of the box, of the ones that work "ok" the vast majority will have a zero shift, tracking errors, or failure to return to zero within 400-500 rounds.


Here's one simple reason why you didn't see or hear of problems- you never pulled the same Lot of ammo from range trip to range trip. Why is that the first thing done on a live fire range is to zero, even when an individual zeroed his rifle two weeks before? Different lot numbers and zero shift.

As the OP on this thread I will provide an update as to my situation, the rest is a rabbit hole I won't go down.

To recap:

1. New VX-6 with a reticle canted relative to the elevation turret
2. Sent in to Leupold, 6 weeks gone and returned with no repair done
3. THIS is what set me off, not the scope problem but no communication or look at the very detailed description and photo of the problem

Here is the latest update:

The technical service person I have been communicating with has been excellent. He has called me pretty much daily with updates. He sent me a UPS label to overnight the scope back to him, and took it to the repair department personally. Apparently there is a +/- 1.5 degree acceptability and it was "off but within spec". It went back-and-forth internally twice but scope now has a new reticle installed and is dead-nutz on according to him, Given the approaching holidays I should expect to see it possibly late next week or week after. I do feel like my issue has been addressed about as well as it could have been (short of just sending me a new scope).

To mix up the pot....


http://echolsrifles.blogspot.com/

The power of social media like the Campfire is a wonderful thing to behold..........I thinking somebody at Leupold has glanced through this thread.........

They’re just praying this stays off FB and Twitter.

Whiners clubs. They can’t be taken seriously by anyone over 30

My experiences are from the field, and should be considered anecdotal as are the overwhelming majority of posts on this thread, when compared to controlled quality testing. Now, I was in a position of accountability over our ordnance and had to sign-off on every piece of dermo'd serialized equipment. Trends would have been more apparent to me than the average trigger puller but again, I recognize this is less than scientific.

You sound like your speaking from a position a bit up the supply chain with access to test results most of us haven't been exposed to. I'd be interested to see where and how you obtained your data. I'm not married to the Leupold brand but in the absence of any substantiated reporting, from verifiable sources who have done extensive testing with meaningful sample sizes, all we're left with are anecdotal accounts.

Please share the source of your figures. It would contribute greatly to this thread.

The 3-9x40 Leupold vx-1 on my .30-06 worked fine for me again this season. Two shots, two dead deer, both hit right where I intended. My pre season zero verification target has 3 shots in one ragged hole at 100.

Are you bragging that it has worked perfectly for 5 shots? I think that's the point I was making in my last post.

That rifle/scope combo does only have about 200 rounds through it in the two years I've had it. I have no need to put thousands of rounds per year through my .30-06. I'm a damn good shot and always have been since I was a kid but most of my "practice" is done with my .22 rimfires and .223's. I also have no need to twist turrets and/or shoot at deer a half mile away.

I too was one of the Leupold long time fan club members. There was a time in which i believed if you didn't have a Leupold on your rifle you didnt have sh$t. Then I had the same thing happen to me. Bought a brand new VXL 3.5-10X56 from cabelas as soon as they came out. Paid 1000 bucks for it. At the time the most expensive scope i had ever purchased by a long shot. Put it on a A-bolt Medallion .06. Wouldn't group after trying several different ammo's. Sold gun at a big loss and bought A-bolt Stainless Stalker 270wsm. Same problems. This was in the early stages of the short mag calibers arrivals on the seen. I had an uncle at the time that swore the 270wsm was too hot of a load and a lot of people had trouble with them grouping and he almost had me sold. Sold that gun for $600 so that was a couple hundred dollar loss not counting the several boxes of premium ammo. Next up was a 85 Grey Wolf in 270wsm. Same problems again. This was all over an year-year and a half time frame. Same scope on all 3 rifles with same results. Sold the entire setup for $1,400. Gun, scope, sling, optilocks, ammo the whole nine yards. Probably lost over a grand on that deal but just wanted to get rid of the headaches go back to the drawing board. Several years later read a article online about the VXL's being notorious for this problem. Pretty positive that was the problem. After losing close to $2,000 in 3 rifles, the scope, couple sets of rings and bases and premium ammo. I cant say for 100% sure it was the scope but id bet about a months salary on it. I also will never purchase another Leupold product unless for some reason it comes on a rifle that is such a good deal i cannot pass up.

OP hope they get everything worked out for you! Good luck!

Randall

Jesus H Christ. I’ve never heard so many old men complain

Shhhh. Adults are talking.

Leupold is an American company and has backed their product well over the years. I think they are the reason that most other companies back their products now. Scope failures is not a new issue but people shooting a lot more is contributing to it. The average hunter that fires less than a box of shells a decade is not likely to notice many problems taking his deer at the customary 75-150 yards. I've seen Leupold replace scopes that failed because a fellow fell off a rock pile and dropped his rifle on it's scope. That's not Leupold's fault but they replaced it anyway.

I can only imagine the struggle Leupold has with competition now days. There are few optical manufacturers putting out world class glass and one is in Japan , the other in Germany. Great glass is very expensive. No company I know of is going to sell a scope with the best glass cheap. They have too much invested in it. Labor is expensive also and our country's labor is more expensive than just about anywhere in the world.

I have read threads on various forums that people have posted that they send their scopes in yearly to have Leupold check them out and service them even though the have no trouble with them. This kind of service with a smile costs money and to me at least it is understandable how some bad things can be missed. This kind of service is expensive to maintain.

No company wants to intentionally give the customer a raw deal. It's just bad business and in the current WWW environment it can and is costly. Sometimes it just happens during the course of messing with thousands of scopes that customers demand to be attended to whether they are broke or not.

I must have 30+ Leupold "set and check a couple times a year scopes" on hunting rifles, they're wonderfully clear and dependable, they will remain right where they are.

I have three NF's and one old Leupold for twisting, 99.9% of the game I shoot is way inside 400 yards and is done with the set and check Leupold glass or with Sharps rifles and barrel buckhorn iron sights.

Leupold is a $100M per year company, which is both good and bad probably. I doubt they give a rip about the 'fire.

I did send them a link to this thread. In today's world, I don't know how you can ignore social media. It matters. A lot. The word is out on Leupold and informed buyers are taking what they read on the internet into account. Leupold has been dropping their prices over the past few years. A healthy company, selling a quality product that is in high demand doesn't lower their prices do they? Just thinking out loud. I'd love to sit in on one of their board of directors meetings.