|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,780 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,780 Likes: 42 |
LEOs should have to carry their own liability insurance. Their record(just like a driving record) should follow them wherever they work. Rights violations, procedure violations, bad shoots, excessive force, on the job accidents, drug use, all should increase their insurance rate, Poor cops will be out of a job due to high rates.
Too many problem cops still have a job( be it with the same dept or the next town over)
Too many cities are paying high settlements for the actions of poor cops
That's a pretty good idea. Many of those cities paying out large sums of money do so when no fault was at hand by the cops, but plenty was at hand by who they justifiably shot. It's a liberal philosophy. Pay them so they don't riot.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.
Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,780 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,780 Likes: 42 |
No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.
Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less. Right. Judge E. Richard Webber of the Eastern District of Missouri sealed the details of the settlement, which also named the city of Ferguson and the former police chief, Thomas Jackson. The amount would be less than $3 million, according to a person familiar with the details of the case, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because no one is allowed to speak about the particulars of the case. Three million dollars is the most the city can pay under its insurance, according to The St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's decision to pay Freddie Gray's family a $6.4 million civil settlement drew praise and criticism Tuesday, with some Baltimore leaders saying the move will help heal the city and others calling it premature.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 353
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 353 |
Most individuals who are shot by law enforcement officers have one thing in common, non-compliance. Yep. Even if you've done nothing more than answer your front door, opened it, and stepped out on the porch with no weapons, no ill intent, no danger to anyone. Even if you don't run. Even if you don't put hands on the officer who is crouched beside his car 50 yards away you must "respect my authority" or I'll bust a cap in your head and leave you dead and your family alone in the world. This dead guy just was not being compliant. Got what deserved. Nothing to see here citizens. Move along. Cops can do no wrong as long they get to go home safe. Note the use of the word "most". There are bad actors in most professions, including law enforcement. Like most professions, they are few. Part of the problem with discussion like this is that the perception of numbers always includes people thinking they are higher because of the publicity associated with alleged bad shoots (Michael Brown, etc.) and a truly bad shoot.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,729 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,729 Likes: 6 |
No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.
Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less. Not always true. Micheal Browns "parents" (he actually lived with his grandmother) were awarded $1.5 million after the felonious thug was shot by a Ferguson, Missouri police officer. That AFTER the officer was found not guilty following intense local, state and federal investigations which found no fault on the officers part. The lawsuit claimed the parents were deprived of future income from their son because he was killed by the police while he was assaulting the officer. Deprived of their sons future income! Gimme a break...
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.
Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less. Right. Judge E. Richard Webber of the Eastern District of Missouri sealed the details of the settlement, which also named the city of Ferguson and the former police chief, Thomas Jackson. The amount would be less than $3 million, according to a person familiar with the details of the case, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because no one is allowed to speak about the particulars of the case. Three million dollars is the most the city can pay under its insurance, according to The St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's decision to pay Freddie Gray's family a $6.4 million civil settlement drew praise and criticism Tuesday, with some Baltimore leaders saying the move will help heal the city and others calling it premature. In my opinion, Brown’s blood being inside the squad car is what made it a justifiable shooting. But... the City’s Ins Co deemed it indefensible and paid off. Likely because with all the publicity about this particular case they would not be able to seat a favorable jury. The Freddie Gray case was different. It is probably double or treble damages ( had it gone to trial) because the Dept didn’t follow its own policies.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,945
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,945 |
Not all that many years ago repeat offenders were locked up for lengthy sentences. Not any more. Not all that many years ago the mentally ill were kept in institutions. Not any more. Not all that many years ago criminals were not allowed to come to America. Not anymore. So these folks are running free and many are armed to the teeth. It's hardly surprising more and more folks are getting shot. As police shootings rise the laws of probability dictate that some situations will end badly that perhaps should have been handled differently. Someone who gets unnerved easily, and runs into one of the above, somebody is getting shot. At the end of the day its just another indication that things continue to go downhill in America.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022 |
No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.
Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less. If municipalities/deep pockets would stop caving in and settling, and start fighting these suits, in the long run, there would be a whole lot less lawsuits filed when the LEO was either No Billed by the Grand Jury or acquitted in a trial. But, they have to be willing to lose some in court to achieve the end of severely cutting down on the number no trial nuisance settlements.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987 |
GunGeezer,
Do you have any notion of how RARE that that sort of thing actually happens?? - DON'T believe what you've seen/heard on TV/radio & in the "newspapers".
WITNESSES, who are family/friends. LIE like rugs in MANY cases & more often than not.
(Body cams haven't stopped the OBVIOUS LIES, either.)
yours, tex An innocent man is dead. DEAD. Children without a father. Wife without a husband. DEAD. Shot dead on his own porch, having done not one thing wrong. Not an ND. Not an overpenetration thru a bad guy. Not mistaken identfty. Not a miss in a justifieable fire fight that killed an innocent two blocks away from a real crime. Oh hell no. This innocent man was the target, shot intentionally by SOB killer cop and without cause or excuse. And all the thin blue line can do is ramble on about it being so unfortunate, so rare, and mostly blame it on the swatter. Just an unfortnate end to the day. So sad. Our bad. What the hell does it matter how rare it is? HE IS DEAD! That crap should NEVER happen. Gun Geezer, And you KNOW with 100% certainty that what you posted is TRUE?? -Were you PRESENT?? OR are you believing/posting this because someone/anyone told you that?? My guess is that what you posted is purest BRAVO SIERRA.. = Police don't just go around shooting people for NO reason at all. yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt.
Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar
F'by 24, 1836
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987 |
curdog4570,
I note that you didn't answer my question & seem to have intentionally AVOIDED answering it it.
Have you been ever been ARRESTED or apprehended for violating the law??
( If you have, how many times??)
That's a YES or NO question, btw.
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt.
Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar
F'by 24, 1836
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,392 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,392 Likes: 18 |
Mad Max,
Fwiw, I don't think that I was disagreeing with you. = I just don't want any non-LEO to be deceived by the Cop-HATING LIARS & BIGOTS, that one so often hears on TV or whose LIES one sees written in the newspapers.
As I said earlier, body cameras have NOT stopped the LYING by witnesses, who are family/associates of the criminal minority.
(I long ago lost count of the SILLY & STUPID lies told by "eyewitnesses", who could NOT have possibly seen what they claimed to have witnessed.)
When I worked in Baltimore, an "eyewitness" claimed that she had seen a Baltimore City Detective "assault an unarmed Black man out of my bedroom window". - When it was revealed that there was a 4-story building between where she testified that she was at the time & where the alleged assault occurred, the "witness" stated under oath that she DID see what she claimed out of her bedroom window.
(When ahe testified in court, the judge warned her that "perjury is a felony", the "eyewitness" again claimed in court that, "I saw what I said that I saw. He done beat that man real bad with a stick." = As a result of her repeated perjury, she was arrested/indicted/convicted/sentenced to State prison. - When questioned about her false testimony by a reporter from WBAL TV, the witness stated that she just wanted to "be on TV" & later admitted that she was NOT even in Baltimore on that day.)
yours, tex Yep, that happened a lot there.Dealing with "eye witnesses" and trying to prepare for trial was a nightmare. There was a big shift in public perception of leo's the past 8 years thanks to Obama, Holder, Lynch and this was done on purpose I see a lot in the younger generation in universities, who never even met a cop, have this hatred and distrust for leo's and openly think that cops enjoy assasinating innocent citizens and especially citizens of color. That was a crime what the Obama and his administration did to the officer in the Ferguson shooting
Last edited by ribka; 01/01/18.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987 |
rocknbbar,,
Personally I believe that "pay-outs" should NEVER be paid unless the case has been tried & the police have been found at fault.
As a taxpayer, I'm sick of paying out money for "sympathy payments", when there was NO FAULT on the part of the police.
I also believe that LOSER PAYS should be the rule in all civil cases, so that people STOP filing worthless suits to try to make $$$$$$$$, without just cause.
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt.
Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar
F'by 24, 1836
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,954
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,954 |
GunGeezer,
Do you have any notion of how RARE that that sort of thing actually happens?? - DON'T believe what you've seen/heard on TV/radio & in the "newspapers".
WITNESSES, who are family/friends. LIE like rugs in MANY cases & more often than not.
(Body cams haven't stopped the OBVIOUS LIES, either.)
yours, tex An innocent man is dead. DEAD. Children without a father. Wife without a husband. DEAD. Shot dead on his own porch, having done not one thing wrong. Not an ND. Not an overpenetration thru a bad guy. Not mistaken identfty. Not a miss in a justifieable fire fight that killed an innocent two blocks away from a real crime. Oh hell no. This innocent man was the target, shot intentionally by SOB killer cop and without cause or excuse. And all the thin blue line can do is ramble on about it being so unfortunate, so rare, and mostly blame it on the swatter. Just an unfortnate end to the day. So sad. Our bad. What the hell does it matter how rare it is? HE IS DEAD! That crap should NEVER happen. Gun Geezer, And you KNOW with 100% certainty that what you posted is TRUE?? -Were you PRESENT?? OR are you believing/posting this because someone/anyone told you that?? My guess is that what you posted is purest BRAVO SIERRA.. = Police don't just go around shooting people for NO reason at all. yours, tex No. I was not there. But those are the facts as reported and to a great extent admitted to by the Chief in his statement and as shown on one cops body camera. Now I suppose it is possible that lots of people are just making up lies, posted a false video, but by ALL accounts: 1. Dead guy opened his door. 2. Dead guy was on his front porch. 3. Dead guy comitted no crimes. 4. Dead guy was unarmed. 5. Dead guy was delibaratly shot and killed by a policeman who shot him with a rifle. Said cop was not near the dead guy and no cop was in immenent danger from the dead guy. The shot was not reported by anybody to be a ND, overpenetration of shooting thru a really actual bad guy, or a miss that was acutally shot at a really actual bad guy. No, the cop shot him. Damn Tex. What's it take for you? This poor sap was in his own home, came outside, and was shot by a cop after having not done one thing wrong. I do support the police. Family members are cops. But cops make mistakes, in this case a HUGE one. This cop should go down for murder cause that's what it was. Maybe if he did, the next trigger happy cowboy would think twice before killiing an innocent man.
Last edited by Gun_Geezer; 01/01/18.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,987 |
Gun Geezer,
In other words, you do NOT know the TRUTH & are simply believing what you heard someplace.
I'm glad that you aren't a person on a jury that's trying the FACTS of a police case, as you appear to be a believer in gossip & perhaps what the "news" said..
Like I said, police don't just go around shooting people without any cause.= That's STUPIDITY on the part of the "believers".
yours, tex
"VICTORY OR DEATH"
William Barrett Travis, Lt.Col., comdt.
Fortress of The Alamo, Bejar
F'by 24, 1836
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2 |
With all the police threads lately, I thought of a couple recent interactions I had with folks that were police officers. Both were local fellas.
First guy was a young fella. Maybe early 30's. Dressed head to toe in all your basic 511 type gear complete with safety glasses, ballistic vest, and various do-dads and gee gaws hanging off of whatever harnesses and belts he had strapped around him. He was patrolling the local shopping center/movie theater.
My nephew had sent me a little paper cut out of a person, can't recall it's name, but part of a popular children's story and a class project. He had asked me to take him around with me and get some pictures and captions to document his "adventures", then send him back.
Anyway, I see the fella and approach him to see if he'd hold my paper man and let me get a photo. The guy was clearly agitated when I said hello, asked me to back away, then visibly softened a bit when I held up the paper man and relented to the photo. Said thanks and he just stared at me. Lol. Not exactly out of the ordinary, but he definitely was out of place. He wasn't a neighborly fella, was not comfortable being approached, and his demeanor was that of a combatant.
The second guy I ran into pulled me over for traffic violations.
I was driving a load of top soil home from a local ag place. Truck was LOADED. The ag store is just a couple miles from home so I wasn't too worried. I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and answered a call as I tooled down the road. Sure enough I get lit up and pulled over.
This fella was a bit older, 50's, dressed in pretty much street clothes, and when he got to the window had a big ol' smile on his face. He chuckled and said something like " no seat belt, talkin' on the phone, I need to ask for your DL and Ins, but I'm scared I might ruin your day! We both laughed and I handed over my docs.
He took a look at my DL, asked about the dirt, gardens, if I was done on the phone, and if not, would I stay on the shoulder until I was. Have a great day.
Neither encounter was anything noteworthy, but looking back at them now, maybe they were. One guy was a neighbor, one guy was looking for a fight. In action, demeanor, and appearance, they were very different though they both worked for the same Dept. One that sees very little violent crime.
I feel for the good guys trying to make it as police officers.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,334 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,334 Likes: 3 |
Is it a Crime to make a false 911/emergency or distress call to LE? Or is it just an innocent 'Prank'? Some States it is a Felony!
Was this INITIAL crime/prank committed in California or Kansas or both?
Is the Crime a Felony?
Does either State carry a Felony Murder Rule?
Did a death occur as a result of the Crime/Prank?
Sometimes, with accident investigations, it is necessary to consider events all the way back to 'start-up'.....................
Last edited by muffin; 01/01/18.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,392 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,392 Likes: 18 |
The past decade there has definitely been a rise in the SWAT, tactical culture that has affected the mindset of younger LEO's and this certainly has not helped improve community relations. When i see cops that wear their tactical crap off duty i think to myself right away that that guy is not right for leo work. Obviously the older guy in your post is the type we want policing our communities When you have the media constantly bashing cops and cops like the younger one you described it is not going to improve With all the police threads lately, I thought of a couple recent interactions I had with folks that were police officers. Both were local fellas.
First guy was a young fella. Maybe early 30's. Dressed head to toe in all your basic 511 type gear complete with safety glasses, ballistic vest, and various do-dads and gee gaws hanging off of whatever harnesses and belts he had strapped around him. He was patrolling the local shopping center/movie theater.
My nephew had sent me a little paper cut out of a person, can't recall it's name, but part of a popular children's story and a class project. He had asked me to take him around with me and get some pictures and captions to document his "adventures", then send him back.
Anyway, I see the fella and approach him to see if he'd hold my paper man and let me get a photo. The guy was clearly agitated when I said hello, asked me to back away, then visibly softened a bit when I held up the paper man and relented to the photo. Said thanks and he just stared at me. Lol. Not exactly out of the ordinary, but he definitely was out of place. He wasn't a neighborly fella, was not comfortable being approached, and his demeanor was that of a combatant.
The second guy I ran into pulled me over for traffic violations.
I was driving a load of top soil home from a local ag place. Truck was LOADED. The ag store is just a couple miles from home so I wasn't too worried. I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and answered a call as I tooled down the road. Sure enough I get lit up and pulled over.
This fella was a bit older, 50's, dressed in pretty much street clothes, and when he got to the window had a big ol' smile on his face. He chuckled and said something like " no seat belt, talkin' on the phone, I need to ask for your DL and Ins, but I'm scared I might ruin your day! We both laughed and I handed over my docs.
He took a look at my DL, asked about the dirt, gardens, if I was done on the phone, and if not, would I stay on the shoulder until I was. Have a great day.
Neither encounter was anything noteworthy, but looking back at them now, maybe they were. One guy was a neighbor, one guy was looking for a fight. In action, demeanor, and appearance, they were very different though they both worked for the same Dept. One that sees very little violent crime.
I feel for the good guys trying to make it as police officers.
Last edited by ribka; 01/01/18.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,945
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,945 |
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
curdog4570,
I note that you didn't answer my question & seem to have intentionally AVOIDED answering it it.
Have you been ever been ARRESTED or apprehended for violating the law??
( If you have, how many times??)
That's a YES or NO question, btw.
yours, tex Ill answer just as soon as you offer an explanation as to why it is any of your affair. ( See, I’m keeping my New Years resolution to be nice and kind to the less gifted among us...... Yesterday I’d have posted” Nosy bastard, ain’t you”) FWIW.... I have answered that question on this forum more than once and I dont feel compelled to repeat it for every FNG that comes along.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
The first cop sees everyone of us as a potential threat. They have actually been around forever and why they keep getting hired in LE is a question that needs to be addressed.
I hope he is not in an open carry state. If so, he is a gunfight waiting to happen.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
|
582 members (12344mag, 1234, 160user, 10ring1, 10gaugeman, 163bc, 58 invisible),
2,176
guests, and
1,101
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,560
Posts18,531,579
Members74,039
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
