I have this discussion with other officers all of the time. People say we need better training in mental health. Some say we need to aim at limbs. Some say we are too militarized. I have my own theory on how to prevent more shootings and prepare officers to deal with threats that don't have guns. There is a group of people who deal with that stuff daily with no guns and vastly inferior numbers. They know how to deal with the worst and get compliance without immediately resorting to violence. They deal well with mental health professionals and the mentally ill alike.

Correctional Officers.

Make people who want to be cops, start inside a major jail or prison. You don't bring guns inside. You learn team takedowns on people with sharp objects. You learn to be polite when bad guys outnumber you 100 to 1. You learn that people have problems but aren't all dirtbags and still have to be deserve to be treated like human beings. You learn to coat your words with honey instead of vinegar, just in case you have to eat them.

Many of us former and some current C/Os used to get looked down on by guys on the road. Now that Im on the road and am involved with hiring at times, I look down on those who don't have that experience. I always treat booking C/Os with respect.

So are police so feeble minded they don't understand they have alternatives to shooting people?

It's not about being feeble. It's about being immersed in the craft of dealing with everything. C/Os are constantly in contact with felons. They get a lot more comfortable in their own skin. They get a lot more reps and they know when to get into a battle of wits or smile and call it good. And believe me, most people don't have the gear to make a career out of being an LEO.

I agree, a healthy dose of our skill set would go a long way.

That's the way it is for Sheriffs Deputies in Denver. Everyone starts in the County Jail for 2 years before you can go on the street.

C/O's kind of know who they're dealing with. By that, the people are in their building. Mostly they're not armed. Yes there are weapons made in jails all across the country. It's not like police out on the street dealing with someone they just made contact with for the first time. They have no idea who they're dealing with. I think having them work in correction might help some, it's not an end all be all though by any means.

NYH1.

Actually prosecute cops for their misdeeds.

Having worked on both sides of the wall, I'll say that you learn more, faster, about how to think on your feet. Nothing is scares me more than a recent college grad with no life experience.

Having worked on both sides of the wall, I'll say that you learn more, faster, about how to think on your feet. Nothing is scares me more than a recent college grad with no life experience.

Accountability. Works wonders with kids. Wonder how it works with adults?

I did some time on the privatized side of corrections. I think the experience did me a lot of good and made me a better street cop.. I got to observe how the criminal element interacts with each other. I observed how differently they interacted with us. I got to see how they manipulate people to try and get what they want. I got to observe the sub-cultural mannerisms, speech and lifestyle that they acquire as a result of being part of the incarcerated society. As a result, I can spot an ex-con from a mile away without ever talking to them.

That said, regardless of CO experience or not, lethal force is either legally justified or it's not. The post-shooting investigation and evidence will reveal whether it is or not.

Seems to me if you had trouble out of thuglife1 and cracker5 it be easier to handle than a random night traffic stop of Joe Q. Public.

You have a higher likelihood of getting killed on the street. Your chances of having a use of force or a coercing someone into cuffs is more likely in prison. If you want to see pros putting on restraints, watch prison guys.

The only time you start on top is when you're digging a well my friend. What you just said can apply to a cherry C/O as well.

How about a kid that grew up on the rough side of town and has forgotten more about what happens on the streets then a cop or c/o will ever know. He'll have more life experience dealing with bad people then most that haven't lived in that type of area ever will. Lets just say he never got in trouble. Him being fresh out of college doesn't make him a good candidate to be a cop? If you get hung up on age and what you perceive as life experience because he's just out of college, you'll lose a lot of good people. YMMV.

NYH1.

I'll restate: recent college grads who aren't straight outta Compton, scare me!

Dogs......problem solved.

Why is this a problem?

Last year cops shot 38 unarmed black men, some of whom, like the Ferguson perp, were violently attacking the cops.

About 8,000 blacks were murdered by other blacks.

Let the coops shoot first

".... Some say we need to aim at limbs...."

Bad idea, IMO. Many LE folks are not gun people, far from marksmen, and a lot could not hit a man-size silhouette at 15 ft when under physical/mental stress.

If departments ever sanctioned this "aim at limbs" policy, shootings might skyrocket. On the stand "So officer, you intended to shoot him in the arm?" ""Yes"" 'and you hit him 5 times in the torso?' ""Yes, he kept moving and would not stand still as ordered.""

Not a cop hater here by any means, just been around some.

I agree with op, experience is a good thing. But let's not forget, where is the inmate gunna go. He is already on the inside.

I learned to sugar coat my words too, my backup was usually 10-15 minutes away. We didn't have pepper spray, tasers, batons or much else. All I had was a Maglite.

This. It should be handled in the law as it would if a non-cop did the very same thing.

I'd be interested to know how you serve, and who you serve with.

First off, when you are justified in using deadly force, you shoot to kill. You don't "wing" anyone on purpose. That is a very basic rule of deadly force, and in any basic police training. If someone that is LEO is suggesting that method, they need fired. Now.

Comparing correctional officers to patrol officers is worse than apples to oranges for comparison.

A team of correction officers may indeed rush an armed prisoner and take him down in the right circumstances, if need be, but it would have to be an emergency situation with no other means.

To even suggest that guards do this is insane, and has regard for officer safety. If a prisoner place themselves in a situation like that, WGAF if they live or die? That's the wages of committing that crime.

Patrol officers don't have the luxury of locking a suspect in a cell and calling in the cavalry to handle the situation. It's real world, and you don't know who is going to pull what weapon and do with it as they please.

Thinking either you never had time on the street, or maybe didn't last long there.

So a cop who chose a different path than yours is looked down upon?

Dang.

Two different topics, not at all related.


Crimes by cops in general are a very small part of crime stats. But a huge problem.

When you can't trust the system and it's enforcers, you have a very broken society.
Think Mexican Federales, or the other third world shakedown scammers.

Evil left on its own will always multiply and dominate. As former poster alluded to the Ruby Ridge shooting, a cop got away with murder, and seem to have started a trend.

Obammy hasn't been mentioned yet, but needs to be. His support for the New England Professor that led to the "Beer Summit" and endorsement of Travon Martin, led to the BLM movement and restarted the race thing.


IMHO, BLM and the attention on police shootings has had two very positive effects.


#1 Of all the shootings nationwide, there has been almost no racial component found. Despite a desperate search for it. This is great to find, but of course, has not been publicized.

#2 It has she'd light on some questionable shootings. Most, under close examination appear justified.
Some not so much. A few, became more questionable. Almost all ended up exonerated the cop, even a couple very questionable shootings. These are very disturbing.

I don't see this as a LEO issue even though there are unjustified shootings every year.

More than half the country are liberal idiots with zero respect for anyone and a blind alliance to their own, they interact with others with disrespect, hate, yelling, screaming, throwing rocks, protest looting, destruction of public property and often on drugs and alcohol.

I see this as a change in the enemy requiring a different approach.

The tazer is awesome in my opinion, but all those that fit in the list above feel differently, I wonder why?


In my life, I have never been abused my a LEO, I may have been pulled over by a grumpy LEO, but never grabbed, pulled out of a vehicle, thrown on the ground, pepper sprayed or tazed.

It's simple really, I fall in with the other half of the country, just normal everyday people with common sense and respect for others.

Edit: How to end many police shootings

Deport the liberals......

You could end all police shootings by taking guns away from them.

Why stop there?

I think this will eventually happen. Side arms will end up in lock boxes in the cruiser for most traffic cops, or some such scenario. Some place like Berkeley will do it first.

It's the same argument used by antis wanting to take guns away from you and me.

Yeah.

That was my point.

If government won't trust cops with guns, then they damn sure ain't gonna trust an armed public.

Lots of employers don’t allow you to show up to work armed.

What they don't know won't hurt them. In fact it just might save them.

Workplace where woman was beheaded and the criminal shot by the owner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaughan_Foods_beheading_incident

Would it not stop police shootings if police didn't have guns?

Or alternatively by getting rid of all police. Neither scenario makes much sense to me.

Either would be an effective way of ending police shootings. I didn't say it was a good idea, I said it would produce the desired outcome stated in the OP.

The logic I've demonstrated here is how politicians make laws.

still would be police shootings (shooting of police, by bad guys)

JWD8310.

I agree that requiring a new recruit to work inside a jail before hitting the streets is a very good thing. I also advocate at least six months in Dispatch, answering calls and dispatching.

Both of those jobs have skill sets which allow the recruit to learn how to talk with people, not just to them. You certainly learn how to talk instead of always fighting, but, in the jail, you also learn about your local criminal subculture as pointed out by stevelyn above.

The Dispatch side teaches two critical things, first, is geography of your area, second (and most importantly), it requires the recruit to draw information out of a highly stressed individual who may or may not hate LEO's without the advantages of badge/defensive weapons, or a multitude of other Officers whose mere presence can be coercive into compliance.

Working solo in remote areas as I did early in my career taught me how to do three things really well; talk with people, fight, and, most important of the three, learn to size up a situation and a person so I could do more talking and less fighting. I hate making a trip to the hospital before I can go home.

How to reduce the number of LE shootings? Simple, actually, community (including media) condemnation of non-compliance and/or resisting arrest.

One of the three points in any sentencing is community condemnation. That seems to have been lost in this country due to apathy and political correctness.

Where are the marches and protests against thug life? Where are the protests and demands on the prosecutors and judiciary to place community safety before all other factors?

Ed

I agree.

Lots of shootings go on because they think they are entitled to do whatever they want without recourse.

That was one tool implemented by Obama that will take more than a couple of years to dissipate.

I got ya greg, just one upped your “logic”. IMO you wouldn’t eliminate police shootings but might curtail them if Chris rocks video “how not to get your azz kicked by the police” was part of the curriculum in the hood, they don’t seem to be teaching them English, so this couldn’t hurt

ROFL
good one

One way to end police shootings is for the bad guy to do what the officer tells him to do. This is usually to quit doing what he was doing that got the officers attention! Seems simple enough!

I just wrote that really poorly. It should have read, "we discuss the suggestions of the public". It's not our or my suggestion to shoot limbs.

As far as the comparison between custody and patrol, I'm not saying everything is cross compatible, but I do think custody handles
some things better. Team tactics and equipment to subdue an inmate with a weapon do work, and we did them quite often in the facility I worked at, which was close custody by population with a maximum unit. We also had a lot of mentally ill inmates who you learn a lot about due to exposure on a daily basis. I think custody and probation does this much better than patrol due to that constant use of the skill and familiarity they develop.

I was a custody officer for four years and have been on the road ten. I agree it's not always feasible to wait for more people and things can dissolve quickly, but if you got time, use it and come up with something better.

".... Some say we need to aim at limbs...."


So say people that have never been in a pants chitting situation.

"Team tactics and equipment to subdue an inmate with a weapon do work, and we did them quite often in the facility I worked at..."

How does that work when it's 2:00 A.M. and you're alone with a violent pissed off drunken/tweaking ex-con with back up 20+ minutes away? And that back up guy ain't no team and he isn't hauling any specialized equipment either.

Or some experience in something. New officers who don't have that background have a much longer learning curve and very rarely have any experience going hands-on with someone or talking someone off a ledge. Come from the military, a rough neighborhood, worked in a bar, something. I prefer applicants who qualify with the 2 years college and 2 years qualifying experience vs the OR 4 year degree option.

How about you read the part that said, "it's not always feasible".

Amazing how many are known because of the 24-7 news cycle.

Most of these things would not happen if the folks that wind up on the loosing end did not do the things that started the altercation in the first place.

Most started when folks thought they could do what they wanted when the police told them to one thing.

Then there are folks that just think that no one should be shot because it's not their fault.
Then there are folks that should be locked up in asylums that are allowed to run rampant in society because feel good folks thought it would be a good idea to let them run loose.
Even if they took their meds they have gone off the rails.

There have always been folks that were shot by the police but the few that were done by bad cops have made it a harder job to to.

I'm calling cops Ruby's from now on.

Maybe they'll get it eventually that the public is tired of being shot.

How about you answer the question?

If you can't figure out how that answers the question, then Im not sure what anyone or anything can do for you at this point.

Go into a pod at a county jail with felons according to their classification, waiting on slots for prison at state and federal level. Outnumbered 48-1......
And you still manage to be told, that your being fired for a history of excessive force breaking up fights. BTDT..... Honestly I hated the job and felt great driving home that day. The funny thing is i run into inmates from the jail all the time all over town. Ain't had 1 bad experience from any of them, talk to them about whatever..... Most of our county road deputies did 2-3 yrs as deputy jailers 1st. It would be a good idea to make em jailers 1st. JMO....

So no answer, check. BTW, try incorporating some of those verbal skills you supposedly learned as a jailer into your written responses here.

Rodney King, LA riot fame, got his AZZ whooped................ oddly enough 4 others were arrested at the same time by the same cops that did NOT get their collective AZZes whooped!?!?!?

Selective racism!?!? Or maybe there was ONE guy that didn't follow the cops orders............ actually he probably couldn't since he was drunk or high on pcp or some CHITT....

Some have mused:

Can you stop cop shootings by taking away all guns.............. sure!

Can you stop cop shootings by doing away with all cops............... sure!

Or you could go the full liberal route and rescind ALL Laws........... and instantly crime rate drops to ZERO!


Ok now back to reality........................

Stop resisting.

I understood what JWD posted. Made some good points too.

I've seen criminals that need shooting. I've also seen a sackful of cops who could use a good ole fashioned asswhoopin as well. My biggest gripe with cops is that pretty much ALL of them will stick up for one bad cop no matter what. Clean out your own closet first, and it'll go a long way to regaining the public's trust.

I've little use for cops or criminals. The less I have to be around either, the better.

Not shooting unarmed, non aggressive people would be a good start.

Absolutely. We have a new officer who is 24. She graduated from college, worked as a secretary until she could get hired. Pretty sheltered life. We go out to a house where we were meeting with a homeowner to get permission to place a camera to watch other folks. He comes out with a holstered Glock. She whispers to me, "he's got a gun". I whispered back, "and the right to bear it too". I understand it was probably her first encounter with someone with a gun while working and it was a learning experience, but I found it funny.

My experience with our local deputies has been in line with most Sheriff's department people I've met across the county. They have all been pretty laid back, country boys.

Police and State Troopers have been entirely different.

State Troopers in my state an be pretty stiff. When one tells a joke, I almost don't know what to do with myself.

He first encounters of anyone with a gun while working would have been fellow cops, but it was only the first
ordinary peaceful citizen with a legal gun that got her worrying...."us" and "them" attitude it seems,...I wonder
where such a greenhorn cop got that from?.......safe to say it wasn't from her time at college or secretarial position.

I think you would be surprised how many young people, especially in middle class suburbia, grow up without guns or knowing that people around them have guns. To them, the only people who have them are cops and bad guys. Nothing in our training teaches us that citizens shouldn't have guns. But, bigger agencies in liberal areas often have questions on pre-employment written exams regarding the applicants history of gun ownership. No one will admit it, but I'm sure it doesn't help your score to admit you collect guns. Liberal politicians appoint liberal leadership that impose their views via policy.

I disagree that she developed the "us vs them" attitude after becoming an LEO. Our culture develops that from our childhoods and throughout life. Cliques, sports rivalries, jobs. If you want to get angry, listen to insurance claims adjusters talk to each other at a party and laugh about how they did this or that to some schmuck.

And there it is, they are hiring 'justice warriors', not policemen.

I was almost fired from my first training phase.
My Field Training Officer (FTO), a good but young man, was ordered to bring me to the FTO office, where I promptly met the (connected) Lieutenant. Said Lieutenant began to chew me out, stating things like, "No one walks through my training program!"
I was completely startled as I did not know where this was coming from or why. Luckily for me, the bourbon on his breath brought me back to reality quickly (Mom was a drunk) and I realized it was because I was training in some of the roughest government projects the City had to offer. Now I wasn't the 24 year old college student that the majority of my Academy class was. I turned 41 during the eight month program.I had been in the US Army where I had served in the Ranger Regiment, the 7th IN (Light), and the 82 ABN.
I mustered up some tact and replied,

"With all due respect Sir, I am not one of your little college kids who's never seen a black man. I left tougher men dead on the side of the road in Panama." (Not quite true but I was pissed)

He gaped there like a goldfish and waved me out of his office.

18 years later I am working with bums under a freeway and he has retired with an outrageous salary and I hope never to meet him again.

I was the only person in my 50 member Academy class that had to provide a list of all firearms in my possession by action type and serial number in order to get hired.

That is ridiculous. Completely uncalled for. It's none of their business. 20% of gun owners probably own 80% of the guns in thijs country and prison population demographics suggests those 20% are NOT the problem. Watching gun ignorant officers try to clear weapons on scene is horrifying.

My son in law had to work 3 years in the county jail...he just went to the academy this month so maybe some county's have that figured out...

I love you, but I can't imagine wanting a job and living in California that bad.

There would be a lot fewer police shootings if there weren't so many felons who need to be shot.

Out of everything on here this one has nailed it. Follow orders, do what your told. Not real hard. Police shootings would damn near drop to zero!

Wrongful death shootings by cops are seldom prosecuted and in the few instances where they are, the conviction rate is 11%, which explains why they are seldom prosecuted.

OTOH, Plaintiff Attorneys routinely get huge out of court settlements from Municipalities for the same incident that wasn’t criminally prosecuted.

I don’t see anything that will change that situation.

Giving people military gear who don’t have a military mindset certainly increases the likelihood of bad shootings. Employing military tactics against fellow citizens should cause concern for all of us, but cops increasingly don’t see fellow citizens........ they see enemies.

Teach your kids the truth....... The Police are not your friend. They don’t trust you and you should not trust them.

Yeah...... that’s real good advice EXCEPT that often there are multiple cops... some of them scared schitless... shouting conflicting commands. It may get to the point that a man’s best chance at surviving is to kill the cop before he kills you.

I've found that smiling at them causes them to relax.

That works for traffic stops..... most times. Not a good plan for swat teams busting your door down because they got the address wrong.

That is the thing wrong with the idea of getting people with a military background; they come in with a perception that the general population is the enemy and needs eliminated. Unhappily we have a lots of non native english speakers now, and a lot of us are hard of hearing, not counting the deaf. Long ago I heard a cop threaten that he would put anyone "on the ground" if he saw them with a gun; I carry guns out to the car all the time, and back, not always in a case. The days of walking over to the neighbors and showing him a new something and sighting it (unloaded) down the street are gone. I am even careful boresighting across the back field from the deck now, looks right at a highway.

Open your door and get whacked by cop, having not done one damn thing wrong. We're pretty much already there.

A cop who wrongfully kills someone is guilty of a crime.

That seems lost on a lot of folks.

One way of lowering the crime rate is prosecuting criminals, but oftentimes the witnesses to the crime are other cops and we have ample evidence from lots of cops who are forum members that unbiased testimony is impossible to come by.

So...... the bad cops lose their job and get hired by another agency.

Can you give us an example of this?

If a cop kills someone outside the sanctity of justifiable homicide, they ARE usually prosecuted. Beyond that, the state law enforcement licensing agency will pull their license.

My experience has been that nobody hates a bad cop worse than other cops.

Outside the sanctity, huh?

And WHO makes that decision? A Prosecutor who looks at a nationwide 11% conviction rate for cops charged, that’s who.

As far as an example, look at the questionable shootings we discuss on this forum. In most cases the offending officers have multiple complaints filed against them PRIOR to the incident under discussion.

And....... no cop is gonna say he likes bad cops. He just doesn’t judge them the way the rest of us do.

Like I’ve posted many times....... a normal guy does not want a job where he has to constantly be interfering in other folks lives, so someone who chooses a career in LE doesn’t think normally from the git go.

No chance he will ever appraise a situation the same way as the general public.

What happened to the swat team in Tucson that killed the former Marine in his home, Jose Guero, and then were caught lying about his actions? Not a damn thing.

But his widow got 2.3 million bucks from the County.

The 70 YO homeowner in Ft Worth killed in his garage by two city cops at the wrong address. Once more, the initial report had to be constantly amended as coverups were discovered. Richland Hills and Ft Worth had to pay a large settlement to his family and the two cops were not disciplined.

The Idaho rancher, Jack Yantis, killed after he was called to put down his bull? And his wife suffering a heart attack after being manhandled and cuffed by the Deputies? No charges filed in that case either and the Deputies stayed on the payroll. Of course the family will get paid off by taxpayers..... the same taxpayers who kept on paying the salaries of the Deputies.

Finally..... let’s see what happens to the Swat Team member who killed the guy just the other day when cops were wrongly dispatched to his home.

Most all the forum cops give the cowardly son of a bitch a pass.

Do you?

Yes, sanctity.

Human life is valued by out legal system, and when someone is killed outside the allowances, it's a violation of trust and sanctity.

Not everything is black and white.

While I'd be one of the first to advocate for a bad cop to go to the pen because he kills someone because he didn't have to, I also look at the culpability of others in a deadly force incident as well.

When the police believe they have been called by an armed murderer vowing to not be taken alive, and stating he's armed and has soaked the house with gasoline... That's one bit of info that influences the case.

When the guy was told to keep his hands up, and then didn't... that's another.

The cop being too quick on the trigger is another.

You have to look at the grey as well as the black and white.

I try not to condemn anyone until the facts are in, rather than the liberal media hype.

Just what sort of facts would cause you to blame the cop? Here are the facts from the victims side:

A man innocent of any wrongdoing opens the door of his home in response to several armed police officers shouting orders at him. He is unarmed. One, or more, of the police officers shoots and kills him.

As far as I’m concerned, any other person inside that house would have been justified in shooting as many of the cops as possible as soon as they opened fire.

You probably think differently.

Old cur dog just clinched the KOTY award w/ this last minute entry. Tell us again how many times you have been arrested.



mike r

Aside from all that, whadda ya got?
Great post.

This is the single most rediculous statement I've ever read on this site. It's very clear that you have an axe to grind and never miss an opportunity to do it. But what in hell qualifies you to tell everyone what they should teach their kids? Don't bother answering.

It is solid advice.

Gene, that the third fuggin' time you have put words in my mouth I didn't say.

You win.

Ain't playin' your game any longer.

The first thing you may want to do is to realize who is your enemy, and who isn't.

LOL, I've hit the wall a couple three times over the decades, soon as they find out what's up they're GTG, sometimes at a faster clip than you.

Couple years ago on the fire you get tore to shreds as liberal for suggesting that cops shouldn’t shoot so many people. Why gives?


Recent campfire activity has shown a marked downtrend in the popularity of leupold scopes, magnum rifles, and police shootings. Swfa and Creedmoor populuarity numbers were at a high last month, for the 10th consecutive month n a row.

Trump Obama and Hillary Jesus and the homosexual population all remain static

Just ask one of his 6 ex-wives.

Are you an actuary or what?

Seriously? It took that post? A man that has 6 ex-wives and sucks Christ cock tells you something.

In reality, what's wrong with that advice?
I've taught my son to be respectful towards all, including the police. He likely trusts the vast majority he's met locally because they're known to me/him. He's also well aware of more than a few locally that aren't to be trusted under any circumstances.

George

Lol, thanks for the laughs.

I find it ironic that the ‘C’ampfire has a KOTY award.

I used to trust everyone.

Where I grew up, so did I (for the most part). Then I turned 10ish..........
☺

What you've said sounds like solid parenting based your beliefs and experiences. You pass that on to your children. What he said sounds like continuous drivel of someone who got his feelings hurt and can't let it go.

These threads are all about self exploration, personal growth and overcoming bias.

We’re lucky to have each other.

Agreed. I'd go to the wall for NHK9 and his family, not so much for Curdog and his 1/2 dozen ex-wives

George, at least three other Campfire cops have expressed agreement the statement as well. It’s no different than your insurance card that tells you not to volunteer information to LE after a traffic accident.

My nine year old shirttail granddaughter who lives next door just came over for a visit and cookies. The County Sheriff is another of her shirttail grandpas so, of course, she trusts him as she should.

But , for someone you know ONLY as a cop, they should not be considered your friend.

Laffin.

They lied about Santa, Mac............they lied and I trusted them

One in 323,000 US citizens was shot and killed by the police in 2017.

If those guys/gals had previously worked in a major jail or prison and learned to not immediately resort to violence and learned team take-downs of people with pointy objects it would be 1 in 4.5 million.

They could've also been nicer in what they said and how they said it. Instead of saying, "Drop the [bleep] gun!" they could have said, "I understand you're not a dirtbag and everyone has problems, so now please, pretty please, set down your weapon and let's talk about what has you so upset."

People put too much weight on that badge, as if it implies personality characteristics. It doesn't, same mix of great guys and azzholes as any other group. But what it does, just like my profession, is cause a sort of group think that many fall into. The "Team" mentality surrendering personal reason.

Also if they previously worked in a major jail or prison and learned how to clear weapons as one of their team oriented skill sets, there might be a few less accidental discharges by new cops that "scare" some non pre-c/o cops. Could probably get that number down to 1 in 4,500,002 ± 1 or 2.

NYH1.

Yeah, because C/O's come across so many guns in jails/prisons and qualify what, once a year? Sounds like a departmental training issue.

Kinda like 'Christians'. They are as much your friend as a Muslim.

Yep.

NYH1.

And the Easter bunny?

That was a bad day.

Otherwise known as the Keaster Bunny to those who worked in major jails and prisons.

No argument here. Ten years in a correctional facility would give the dumbasses a chance to get fired or indicted before they worked with the public. Of course, that would put people around thirty years of age before they were eligible to learn a new job and almost every department has trouble hiring as it is.

Now, that guy is getting shot. I'm glad I never had to deal with a violent offender more than 5 minutes by myself.

kwg

Five minutes is forever in a life or death struggle.

I assume you're being sarcastic. Otherwise I'd think you were just plain retarded, and that would not be a nice thing to think.

Armednfree,

SPOT ON.

As to what COs face, I've been a CO (I spent 22 moinths in the detention center.) & a street LEO & there is LITTLE similarity in the 2 jobs.

The BIGGEST thing is that I always worked the street with "back-up" almost always FAR AWAY or UNAVAILABLE at all.
(I once "got into a situation" with 8 BGs & NO "back up". ALL that I coluld do was take cover in the nearby bar-ditch & call for help. That night I had a .38SPL Colt's OP, 12 rounds & a double-barrel 12 gauge with 4 extra #1 Buck rounds. = Over a HALF-HOUR later, I got some help from 4 deputies from another county & a State P&WD officer. Things thereafter were sucessfully concluded.)

LOTS of unpleasant things can happen at night, when you are "in a mess" & ALONE.
(I spent my years as county officer working 3rd shift & with my "partner" generally 10 or more miles away. - Rural LE work is REALLY different from city LE.)

yours, tex

Most individuals who are shot by law enforcement officers have one thing in common, non-compliance.

itppowell,

YES & it is equally likely 99+% of that 323K+ were CRIMINALS, too.

yours, tex

You know, it was gettin kinda slow around here and I figured you all needed something to talk truth about. Decided to go ahead and Jeff_O myself. I do use blue tape on my barrels though.

I love my current job but I’m constantly using things I learned on the inside and other officers would really benefit from that experience. Whether its talking with mentally ill people without escalating or putting people in restraints (probably cuffed more people in a month working intensive management than a police officer will cuff in a career).

GreatWaputi,

Well, you're half correct anyhow. = The GOOD BOOK says, "A soft answer turneth away wrath."

In nearly 3 decades of "being pinned to a badge", I've found that the soft answer almost always works to disarm the criminal.
(YES, I mean that in both ways.)

yours, tex

HIre cops whose trigger fingers are not so itchy and who have tools other than hammers on their belt. Shooting innocent folk on their own front porch is really bad form and without excuse.

GunGeezer,

Do you have any notion of how RARE that that sort of thing actually happens?? - DON'T believe what you've seen/heard on TV/radio & in the "newspapers".

WITNESSES, who are family/friends. LIE like rugs in MANY cases & more often than not.
(Body cams haven't stopped the OBVIOUS LIES, either.)

yours, tex

Good luck with your theory.

Doesn't stop at the church door.

Mad Max,

The VAST MAJORITY of persons, who are actually shot by LEOs, are VICIOUS CRIMINALS, who assaulted or attempted to harm, the officer(s).
(Come at me, armed with a deadly weapon, I definitely WILL defend myself. = In one instance, a 2-time VIOLENT ex-con came at me with a 22" long cane knife. In the aftermath, his wife complained to the sheriff that I pointed a shotgun at her husband & threatened to kill him. = She was HALF-truthful, as I DID point the pump-gun at him & told him, "STOP or I'll shoot." - He threw the knife down & thereafter was apprehended/tried/convicted & spent 220 days in the parish jail, plus 3 years supervised probation for attempted armed assault.)

In >3 decades, I've personally know of TWO cases that were even of "questionable circumstances" & those were two cases out of the THOUSAND plus incidents that I had actual knowledge of.

yours, tex

I stand by what I said, irrespective of the truth of what you typed. Non-compliance with either the law or the instructions of law enforcement officers increases one's odds of getting shot, significantly. Most individuals shot by leos are guilty of one or the other or both

Mad Max,

Fwiw, I don't think that I was disagreeing with you. = I just don't want any non-LEO to be deceived by the Cop-HATING LIARS & BIGOTS, that one so often hears on TV or whose LIES one sees written in the newspapers.

As I said earlier, body cameras have NOT stopped the LYING by witnesses, who are family/associates of the criminal minority.
(I long ago lost count of the SILLY & STUPID lies told by "eyewitnesses", who could NOT have possibly seen what they claimed to have witnessed.)
When I worked in Baltimore, an "eyewitness" claimed that she had seen a Baltimore City Detective "assault an unarmed Black man out of my bedroom window". - When it was revealed that there was a 4-story building between where she testified that she was at the time & where the alleged assault occurred, the "witness" stated under oath that she DID see what she claimed out of her bedroom window.
(When ahe testified in court, the judge warned her that "perjury is a felony", the "eyewitness" again claimed in court that, "I saw what I said that I saw. He done beat that man real bad with a stick." = As a result of her repeated perjury, she was arrested/indicted/convicted/sentenced to State prison. - When questioned about her false testimony by a reporter from WBAL TV, the witness stated that she just wanted to "be on TV" & later admitted that she was NOT even in Baltimore on that day.)

yours, tex

Happy New Year to all you heroic cops. My new year’s resolution will be to not believe any news articles on any medium having to do with cops except for the ones that show them bringing milk to folks who can’t get out of their house. Those instances of police corruption which I see with my own eyes I will lay off to faulty vision. If I encounter any of you in the upcoming year I will try to be a better perp.

May free donuts accompany you on all your travels in 2018.

curdog4570.

QUESTION: How many times have you been "handled" by a police agency for any infraction??

You sound like a typical "Cop-HATER", who HATES us because you got caught breaking the law.

yours, tex

Regarding police shootings of blacks, they need to be taught that when the red lights come on to pull them over, they are technically under arrest until released. Have noticed a majority of shootings occur because they disregard or ignore police instructions, like show your hands, dont't come any closer, etc.
Police could give classes on how to behave when being arrested to black churches and schools, or perhaps shown on some TV ads.

An innocent man is dead. DEAD. Children without a father. Wife without a husband. DEAD. Shot dead on his own porch, having done not one thing wrong. Not an ND.
Not an overpenetration thru a bad guy. Not mistaken identfty. Not a miss in a justifieable fire fight that killed an innocent two blocks away from a real crime. Oh hell no. This innocent man was the target, shot intentionally by SOB killer cop and without cause or excuse. And all the thin blue line can do is ramble on about it being so unfortunate, so rare, and mostly blame it on the swatter. Just an unfortnate end to the day. So sad. Our bad.

What the hell does it matter how rare it is? HE IS DEAD! That crap should NEVER happen.

Yep. Even if you've done nothing more than answer your front door, opened it, and stepped out on the porch with no weapons, no ill intent, no danger to anyone. Even if you don't run. Even if you don't put hands on the officer who is crouched beside his car 50 yards away you must "respect my authority" or I'll bust a cap in your head and leave you dead and your family alone in the world. This dead guy just was not being compliant. Got what deserved. Nothing to see here citizens. Move along. Cops can do no wrong as long they get to go home safe.

LEOs should have to carry their own liability insurance. Their record(just like a driving record) should follow them wherever they work. Rights violations, procedure violations, bad shoots, excessive force, on the job accidents, drug use, all should increase their insurance rate, Poor cops will be out of a job due to high rates.


Too many problem cops still have a job( be it with the same dept or the next town over)

Too many cities are paying high settlements for the actions of poor cops

And your post reads just like a typical cop response. Y’all switch from being the whiny little under appreciated, victimized, mis understood, unacknowledged hero to being aggressive.

You are new here so I’ll explain myself once more...... I don’t hate cops. As individuals I count many of them among my friends, some are members here.

What I hate are Bureaucrats, and while most Bureaucrats can only deprive me of my money or property, you Bureaucrats With Badges can kill me with impunity. I depend on fear of punishment as a big factor in my security. Y’all have no reason to fear punishment because the Bureaucracy protects its own.

So..... now you know. You can stop speculating.

That's a pretty good idea.

Many of those cities paying out large sums of money do so when no fault was at hand by the cops, but plenty was at hand by who they justifiably shot.

It's a liberal philosophy. Pay them so they don't riot.

No, Barry, those “large sums” are only paid out when the shooting is indefensible. By large, I mean in the millions which is usually the limit of the liability insurance.

Those nuisance payouts are usually less than 100k, most of them far less.

Right.

Note the use of the word "most". There are bad actors in most professions, including law enforcement. Like most professions, they are few. Part of the problem with discussion like this is that the perception of numbers always includes people thinking they are higher because of the publicity associated with alleged bad shoots (Michael Brown, etc.) and a truly bad shoot.

Not always true. Micheal Browns "parents" (he actually lived with his grandmother) were awarded $1.5 million after the felonious thug was shot by a Ferguson, Missouri police officer. That AFTER the officer was found not guilty following intense local, state and federal investigations which found no fault on the officers part. The lawsuit claimed the parents were deprived of future income from their son because he was killed by the police while he was assaulting the officer. Deprived of their sons future income! Gimme a break...

In my opinion, Brown’s blood being inside the squad car is what made it a justifiable shooting.

But... the City’s Ins Co deemed it indefensible and paid off. Likely because with all the publicity about this particular case they would not be able to seat a favorable jury.

The Freddie Gray case was different. It is probably double or treble damages ( had it gone to trial) because the Dept didn’t follow its own policies.

Not all that many years ago repeat offenders were locked up for lengthy sentences. Not any more. Not all that many years ago the mentally ill were kept in institutions. Not any more. Not all that many years ago criminals were not allowed to come to America. Not anymore. So these folks are running free and many are armed to the teeth. It's hardly surprising more and more folks are getting shot. As police shootings rise the laws of probability dictate that some situations will end badly that perhaps should have been handled differently. Someone who gets unnerved easily, and runs into one of the above, somebody is getting shot. At the end of the day its just another indication that things continue to go downhill in America.

If municipalities/deep pockets would stop caving in and settling, and start fighting these suits, in the long run, there would be a whole lot less lawsuits filed when the LEO was either No Billed by the Grand Jury or acquitted in a trial.

But, they have to be willing to lose some in court to achieve the end of severely cutting down on the number no trial nuisance settlements.

Gun Geezer,

And you KNOW with 100% certainty that what you posted is TRUE?? -Were you PRESENT?? OR are you believing/posting this because someone/anyone told you that??

My guess is that what you posted is purest BRAVO SIERRA.. = Police don't just go around shooting people for NO reason at all.

yours, tex

curdog4570,

I note that you didn't answer my question & seem to have intentionally AVOIDED answering it it.

Have you been ever been ARRESTED or apprehended for violating the law??
( If you have, how many times??)

That's a YES or NO question, btw.

yours, tex

Yep, that happened a lot there.Dealing with "eye witnesses" and trying to prepare for trial was a nightmare.

There was a big shift in public perception of leo's the past 8 years thanks to Obama, Holder, Lynch and this was done on purpose

I see a lot in the younger generation in universities, who never even met a cop, have this hatred and distrust for leo's and openly think that cops enjoy assasinating innocent citizens and especially citizens of color.

That was a crime what the Obama and his administration did to the officer in the Ferguson shooting

rocknbbar,,

Personally I believe that "pay-outs" should NEVER be paid unless the case has been tried & the police have been found at fault.

As a taxpayer, I'm sick of paying out money for "sympathy payments", when there was NO FAULT on the part of the police.

I also believe that LOSER PAYS should be the rule in all civil cases, so that people STOP filing worthless suits to try to make $$$$$$$$, without just cause.

yours, tex

No. I was not there. But those are the facts as reported and to a great extent admitted to by the Chief in his statement and as shown on one cops body camera. Now I suppose it is possible that lots of people are just making up lies, posted a false video, but by ALL accounts:
1. Dead guy opened his door.
2. Dead guy was on his front porch.
3. Dead guy comitted no crimes.
4. Dead guy was unarmed.
5. Dead guy was delibaratly shot and killed by a policeman who shot him with a rifle. Said cop was not near the dead guy and no cop was in immenent danger from the dead guy. The shot was not reported by anybody to be a ND, overpenetration of shooting thru a really actual bad guy, or a miss that was acutally shot at a really actual bad guy. No, the cop shot him.

Damn Tex. What's it take for you? This poor sap was in his own home, came outside, and was shot by a cop after having not done one thing wrong.

I do support the police. Family members are cops. But cops make mistakes, in this case a HUGE one. This cop should go down for murder cause that's what it was. Maybe if he did, the next trigger happy cowboy would think twice before killiing an innocent man.

Gun Geezer,

In other words, you do NOT know the TRUTH & are simply believing what you heard someplace.

I'm glad that you aren't a person on a jury that's trying the FACTS of a police case, as you appear to be a believer in gossip & perhaps what the "news" said..

Like I said, police don't just go around shooting people without any cause.= That's STUPIDITY on the part of the "believers".

yours, tex

With all the police threads lately, I thought of a couple recent interactions I had with folks that were police officers. Both were local fellas.

First guy was a young fella. Maybe early 30's. Dressed head to toe in all your basic 511 type gear complete with safety glasses, ballistic vest, and various do-dads and gee gaws hanging off of whatever harnesses and belts he had strapped around him. He was patrolling the local shopping center/movie theater.

My nephew had sent me a little paper cut out of a person, can't recall it's name, but part of a popular children's story and a class project. He had asked me to take him around with me and get some pictures and captions to document his "adventures", then send him back.

Anyway, I see the fella and approach him to see if he'd hold my paper man and let me get a photo. The guy was clearly agitated when I said hello, asked me to back away, then visibly softened a bit when I held up the paper man and relented to the photo. Said thanks and he just stared at me. Lol. Not exactly out of the ordinary, but he definitely was out of place. He wasn't a neighborly fella, was not comfortable being approached, and his demeanor was that of a combatant.

The second guy I ran into pulled me over for traffic violations.

I was driving a load of top soil home from a local ag place. Truck was LOADED. The ag store is just a couple miles from home so I wasn't too worried. I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and answered a call as I tooled down the road. Sure enough I get lit up and pulled over.

This fella was a bit older, 50's, dressed in pretty much street clothes, and when he got to the window had a big ol' smile on his face. He chuckled and said something like " no seat belt, talkin' on the phone, I need to ask for your DL and Ins, but I'm scared I might ruin your day! We both laughed and I handed over my docs.

He took a look at my DL, asked about the dirt, gardens, if I was done on the phone, and if not, would I stay on the shoulder until I was. Have a great day.



Neither encounter was anything noteworthy, but looking back at them now, maybe they were. One guy was a neighbor, one guy was looking for a fight. In action, demeanor, and appearance, they were very different though they both worked for the same Dept. One that sees very little violent crime.


I feel for the good guys trying to make it as police officers.

Is it a Crime to make a false 911/emergency or distress call to LE? Or is it just an innocent 'Prank'? Some States it is a Felony!

Was this INITIAL crime/prank committed in California or Kansas or both?

Is the Crime a Felony?

Does either State carry a Felony Murder Rule?

Did a death occur as a result of the Crime/Prank?


Sometimes, with accident investigations, it is necessary to consider events all the way back to 'start-up'.....................

The past decade there has definitely been a rise in the SWAT, tactical culture that has affected the mindset of younger LEO's and this certainly has not helped improve community relations.

When i see cops that wear their tactical crap off duty i think to myself right away that that guy is not right for leo work.

Obviously the older guy in your post is the type we want policing our communities

When you have the media constantly bashing cops and cops like the younger one you described it is not going to improve

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1610392116/?tag=indinst-tir-20

Ill answer just as soon as you offer an explanation as to why it is any of your affair. ( See, I’m keeping my New Years resolution to be nice and kind to the less gifted among us...... Yesterday I’d have posted” Nosy bastard, ain’t you”)

FWIW.... I have answered that question on this forum more than once and I dont feel compelled to repeat it for every FNG that comes along.

The first cop sees everyone of us as a potential threat. They have actually been around forever and why they keep getting hired in LE is a question that needs to be addressed.

I hope he is not in an open carry state. If so, he is a gunfight waiting to happen.

curdog4570,

INTERESTING that you don't answer the question with a simple YES or NO. = My guess is that you've been "handled" X-times for being a lawbreaker, as well as appearing to be a cop-HATING bigot/moron..

Btw, I've been a member of this forum since 15JUN13, so I'm hardly a newcomer here.

Laughing AT you, as I suspect other intelligent & FAIR-MINDED members DO.

yours, tex

Well, when I became a member, the kindling was still burning in this ‘fire, so you are a new guy to me.

I will tell you this much...... my opinion of L E in general does not come from the liberal media which is a charge often leveled, it comes from observation and personal experience. I attend a lot of the get together and have many personal friends who are members.... some of them are cops.

In this 17 year’s of membership, I pretty much follow the same pattern with regard to cop bashing threads:

I don’t believe I’ve ever STARTED one of these threads, certainly not with a linked article since I don’t search for them and since I’ve started using this IPAD, I don’t know how.

I usually wait until one of the CCC ( Campfire cop contingent) members posts some ludicrous defense of a particularly egregious action and then I respond.

If I see nothing wrong with the cops’ behavior in an incident posted, I either say that or don’t post at all. I never post that my garbage man picked up the garbage...... that’s his job.

Btw...? Do you know that garbage man is a more dangerous profession than being a cop?

And I’ve never, in 76 years of living, called for a cop or needed one, but my garbage man is an important part of my life.

curdog4570,

FINE. On the WORST of BAD DAYS that you actually need a LEO to protect your loved ones from a VICIOUS PREDATOR, be sure to call your local garbageman.

yours, tex

satx, save your energy. curdog's LE expertise and experience is the result of many rides cuffed in the backseat of a cop car w/ his overalls full of crap as is his mind.

In the interest of starting 2018 on a kinder note I suggest one of his caretakers adjust his meds and change his drool stained Remember Mike Brown bib.

Happy New Year to all.


mike r

lvmiker,

WOW. - How did I ever guess that "curdog" was (IS??) a lawbreaker as well as a police-HATER??

LOL, tex

I decided to read this thread while holding down my chair today. The issue is blatantly obvious to me.
With very few exceptions, the divide between "them" and "us" is all too clear on this thread and it is only worse in the real world.
There is no give or negotiating on either side. There are issues on both sides of the argument.

I'm not picking sides on this one but I would think with the LEO being the professional in the situation, the initial burden would be on them to right the ship. Holding your fellow officers to the same standards as the commoners would be a huge start.

Wow, just wow.

Man I would love to know how some of you act around cops. I'm always respectful and do what I'm told and I've never had 1 bad incident. When I was younger I deserved a good beating too, but it never came. Sure there is a bad apple in every group, but forfucksake people, most cops are good people just trying to help. Grind your axe if you will, but if you ever need a cop, dont bother calling. See how that works out. Better yet lets just get rid of all of them and try out anarchy. That sounds fun. SMH

So, how many police shootings have you personally observed?

I am simply concerned that more citizens that have their hands in the air, or who are crawling on the ground as directed are shot dead. I don’t hate anyone, I am concerned however with the uptick in Folks getting shot who apparently are trying to comply.

jimmyp,

What FACTS make you believe that, "more citizens: are being shot/killed by police when the National statistics (even out of the BHO mal-administration's Department of INJUSTICE") say the OPPOSITE??

TRUTH is that police-involved "bad" shootings are DOWN from border to border, according to the US Civil Rights Commission, FBI, USMS & all the various State Police agencies.

FACTS are FACTS & your concerns are mostly needless..

Like I said, it isn't that there's more these incidents. It's that everyone has a video app to film everything now.

That's not even factoring in the population growth numbers. There's way more people now. More cops too.

Looks like Mr "hope and change" convinced a lot of the god fearing folks on here that police are evil

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-war-on-cops-police-advocacy-group-225291

Just recently we had a man swatted and shot with his hands in the air, naturally the shooting officer said he thought he took something out of his waist band, we just saw an officer acquitted that shot a man who was crawling, and in my neck of the woods officers sent to the wrong address and a man raised his garage door with his pistol in his hand (as he had heard a commotion outside) they “said” they told him to drop the gun but he did not so they killed him. Ordinary 65 year old white man shot dead in his own garage. So my opinion is that a lot of police seem to have less inhibition to shoot someone dead under circumstances that would not have had them shooting 10 years ago. I believe I am a reasonably intelligent individual and I believe fairly that for instance the Michael Brown Shooting was justified, however there have been several shootings by the police that speak to a very troubling trend. Now I get that split second decisions are invoved but if your behind your car with an AR15 and the subject has complied with all your commands its hard to understand why he was shot and easy to suspect the “he reached for his waist before he raised his hands”. I strongly support the police however the bad apples need to Be prosecuted

jimmyp,

And you REALLY believe the LEFTIST & ANTI-police "news media", given their MANY, OUTRIGHT & PROVEN LIES??
(I can name any number of outright/KNOWING LIES reported by ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, THE WASHINGTON POST, THE CHICAGO TIMES, THE NY TIMES & a hundred other "news outlets".)

yours, tex

Tex you are coming off as slightly unhinged in regards to this subject. Your not going to win anyone over that way. Reasonable thinking must prevail here.

jimmyp,

Speaking of "unhinged", do you actually READ the errant nonsense that certain "cop-HATERS" on this forum have posted as if their foolishness was even close to factual??

In 2018, I find MANY knowing/hate-FILLED LIARS among the "news media". Anyone, who believes that foolishness, "needs their head examined" to see if their might really be a brain in there. = For example, the FACTS in the "Travon Martin" & Duke Lacrosse Rape Case" NEVER was even close to what the media reported. = In the "Duke Lacrosse case" there was not only NO rape but a female medical doctor, in the employ of the NC State Police, stated that the "alleged victim" had NOT had any sort of "observable sexual activity" in at least 72 hours. Her medical report was distributed, by the local Sheriff's office, to all of the press "outlets" but the report was ignored by the "mainstream press".
(Fwiw, I've trusted NOTHING that the "mainstream press" has reported since Desert Storm, when ABC, CBS, NBC & several of the "major newspapers" filed "with the troops reports" that were actually made from London, Rome & Paris. = NBC fired at least 4 "reporters" for defrauding the network by filing "expense reports" for travel/lodging/car rental/etc, that they NEVER did.)

yours, tex

Get used to, and over, it. It's not personal. Some people will never accept responsibility and will always blame the authority figure, whether it's the cops or their mother. That will never change.

Itppowell,

TRUE FACTS. = A goodly percentage of the general public fears/despises the police until they NEED us to defend their family from a MONSTER,.. - On that day, we cannot lawfully do enough to get their approval.

yours, tex

I think you are referring to Jerry Waller, 72.

One of the officers Benjamin Hanlon, involved in his death was later fired for falsifying an affidavit concerning an arrest he made.
How then could anyone trust his account of Wallers shooting?

I'm good with firing about half of them.

The POlice have a nasty surprise that is building among the general public. The cameras in the cars and on the cops are there to eliminate discretion, and to provide evidence if a criminal act is videod...like a "drunk car". That's PC to stop the car and investigate the driver's level of awareness, or, is he/she impaired. Every ticket has to be written, every arrestable offense has to end in an arrest. The street level officers no longer have the discretion to take someone home who has had too much to drink, but otherwise is doing nothing wrong. The people being policed will get a belly full of that type behavior as the cameras increase and street officers behave more like robots than human beings. If a population doesn't want to be policed, there isn't a damn thing the police can do. The cities and counties and states where the police operate, operate there because the people want the police around to keep order and peace. Keeping order and peace and investigating criminal offenses would not be possible if the people being policed don't want the police there.

Magnumdood,

TRUE FACTS & 100% SPOT ON.

Long, long ago, when I was a small town city marshal, I seldom jailed anybody for DWI or for petty theft. Instead, I took them home to their wife/GF/mother & ask her to "keep him off the road"/STOP "his light-fingered ways".
(MORE than a FEW drunken men & "casual thieves" BEGGED me to NOT give them over to "Mama" but to lock them up "down at the county". - The more that they didn't want to be taken home, the more likely that I would do so.)

FEW drunk drivers/thieves ever "re-offended", as "Mama" solved their problem & mine, too. = IF nothing else, she didn't want him fined 500.oo, losing the car/PU and "sitting in jail", so that they family went hungry when he got fired for being locked-up.

Btw, body cams have NOT stopped the LYING by crooked LEOs, crime victims OR the LYING "eyewitnesses".
(EVERYBODY LIES to the "po-po" = Witnesses LIE, crooks LIE, victims routinely LIE & some police officers LIE to everyone. = I've become, over a half-century as a peace officer, an EXPERT on LYING & LIARS.)

What body cams has accomplished in most cases is WASTING taxpayer's $$$$$$$$$$$ but little else.

yours, tex

It cuts much deeper than that. Once an LEO has lost his/her integrity, or been caught lying under oath, they are done as LEOs. If they lied once, they probably lied a lot more times and was just not caught. Now that he was caught, all any attorney has to do to destroy any credibility the LEO has on the stand is to ask him if he as telling the truth or lying, like the case xyz several months ago? The state will not put a known perjurer on the stand. To get search or arrest warrants the LEO has to swear under oath to the veracity of his written complaint. To get items entered into evidence at a trial the lead investigator has to testify, under oath, at the trial and identify and explain each piece of evidence the state is attempting to get entered. Again, the same question, are you lying under oath like you did last week? Boom! Out goes all the evidence and the case as well. No one can use this officer for anything any longer. He can't swear out a warrant as the affiant and he can't testify in court. Once your integrity is gone it's gone for ever. Better get used to flipping burgers.

The term "Cop Hater" was coined by Public Employees in an effort to muzzle ANY critique of ANY one involved in public employment. Scam Public Employee Unions are the creators of hate speech and are the finest purveyors of it in America.

I'll say it again for the umpteenth time. Three of the greatest threats to America are Republicans, Democrats and Public Employees.

Some of you guys think not liking the police is a "liberal" mindset. Many ultra-conservatives don't like the cops as they feel that the police are the enforcement arm of an overreaching government.

It's actually rather easy to separate the Public Union Entitled mentality here from the Taxpayers forced to carry the ever increasing burden. Most Public Employees believe that they were "adopted" and not "hired" and have been clearly anti-taxpayer from their inception, which BTW is why over 80% pull the blue levers, either openly or closeted.

I wish that was true.
This is what frustrates people. Repeated and documented yet defended by LE.

http://www.westfargopioneer.com/news/4255243-minnesota-trooper-declared-unreliable-court-witness

At least we've been able to get rid of a few of the bad local officers. It took felonious actions by them, many months of court and a new sheriff.

Just from this one post, the CCC can determine that:

You are a liberal pussy who voted for Clinton.

You get all your opinions from the liberal MSM

You were molested by a cop when you were a child

That's crazy. I understand the boss taking up for his people, but anyone on the Brady/ Giglio list is toxic! Their lack of credibility hurts the entire agency. No prosecutor that I ever knew would put such a witness on the stand. As a police officer, your integrity is everything. Your name on those lists means that you have a history of being untruthful. Time for a different career. I can't imagine the State of Minnesota allowing that trooper to continue working in any capacity that might involve sworn testimony.

All I can say is WOW!!!

Done..........but I have high hiring/retention standards and my Chief backs that.

Locally, we reference B/G issues as the ‘Laurie List’. Being ‘listed’ is a no-go for my standards.

Not so much a liberal mindset in your case.

Just a deep seeded hatred that nobody can help you with but... You.

Life's to short to hate that much. Either jump in with both feet and make it your life's mission to make things better, or get over it.

Ain’t no hate here, Barry. I just like poking holes in the hero cop myth. The good cops on the forum just ignore me, the same way I ignore the lies, slander, and insults from those like Lvmikey , Great Waputi, and Steelhead.

I have to wonder if an individual cop gets so bent out of shape over me disagreeing with him on an Internet forum, how he deals with folks face to face who don’t kiss his ass.

I figure I’m just doing my part to show how deeply the “ us versus them” mentality actually goes with cops.

Agree with the above, except for the "loser pays" part. It's a nice thought, but what that does is ensure that the entity with the most money to burn (your tax money) wins by default.

OTOH, if your tort lawyer sees those frivolous suits as unproductive, he is less likely to take your case. As evidence, I have the history of lawsuits against railroads for crossing accidents. In the past, they were settled out of court for expediency. Lawsuits got so common that they were a major expense. At least one railroad adopted a "no out of court settlement" policy, and those lawsuits became less and less successful as the railroad got better and better at retaining and providing evidence of the drivers' fault. As a rule, those lawsuits - if they're even filed - now go nowhere.

It's a painful process to begin, but it's the only way to deal with it effectively without loading the system against the citizen. Stop settling out of court.

How to end many police shootings?

The best is to not allow police guys to carry a gun in everyday job. If he is treated with a gun from someone else, dear policeman then call 911. It is what they say to people in Canada...
But if I get serious conflict with a policeman and I know he is with a gun, I will pool mine, if I have. If I know he is not with a gun I will not use mine even if I have it.

There's good and bad in every occupation.

I generally give Military Members, Police Officers, EMS, Firefighters, Doctor's, Nurses ect. a tad of gratitude for doing what they do. Yep, there's some bad in every one of those groups I just mentioned, but in my opinion....there's way more good. Without them, we'd be living like the people in You Name The Valley, Afghanistan. Nobody really wants that.

NYH1.

or maybe a career sniffing out truffles...
http://vpdm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/truffle_pig_digital_marketing.jpg

I agree with that 100%

What? So Canada has it nailed huh? And if a cop "pools" his gun, you're pulling yours? Sounds about right for the anti cop retards. Sheesh wonder why some of you have issues with the police? Cant imagine how with attitudes like that.

It looks like my time at the fire has about run it's course.

Just tag out Sir. I'll take the next round. I am used to frustrated outrage from people who do not yet understand that sometimes in the greyest of areas, people can make mistakes.

FreeMe,

OK. Fine then make it UNLAWFUL for the government to sue any individual(s).

What I';m sick to death of is organizations like to so-called "Southern Poverty Law Center" & "Handgun ControL. Inc"., the DNC, DNCC and other organizations, filing cases that cost taxpayers a GREAT deal of $$$$$$$$$ to get dismissed.
(As of DEC 2016, the SPLC had sued over 100 people & groups & won only about 2% of those cases. = It's truthfully just HARASSMENT by LEFTIST GROUPS to try to SILENCE moderate & conservative people.)

I've been sued by a "civil liberties group" for having the temerity to defend myself from an armed assault, as the aggressor was a "A-A man" who was armed with a baseball bat. = What does his race/color/ethnic group have to do with making assaulting a person with a metal baseball bat less unlawful and/or more acceptable??
(One wonders WHY such things are allowed by any court.)
That case cost me over 3,000.oo & a great deal of my time/effort to get that case dismissed with prejudice.

While I'm posting about civil suits, WHY do we allow prisoners & their lawyers to sue the penal institution because they want any number of SILLY things changed. = I know of a case where a federal prison inmate sued the federal government because he wanted a DIFFERENT brand of mayoniase served in the prison cafeteria.
(The cafeteria was serving MORTON'S mayo; the inmate wanted nothing but his favorite brand of mayo.)
EVERY one of such "inmate cases" costs $$$$$$$$ to get dismissed.

yours, tex

How about implementing 3 strikes your out nationwide and 30 years in prison for abusing the 2nd amendment? Keep the criminals in prison permanently. And if they commit another felony while in prison they get the death penalty.

ConradCA,

SUITS me clear down to the ground.

I've "pushed" for over 15 years to get a federal law passed that REQUIRES that "possessing a deadly weapon", while committing burglary, robbery, rape, other violent sex crimes, kidnapping for ransom, homicide or sale of narcotics ADDS an additional 20 years of prison time & that that sentence may NOT be probated, "fail to be prosecuted", served concurrently with any other sentence or be subject to parole.,

yours, tex

The problem is a lot of places don't charge federally unless the feds were involved or they want to "use the feds because their state law doesn't do what they want it to do. Like most gun charges seem to have stiffer sentences federally then by the state. They almost always charged as state crimes though.

Never understood that. Especially with repeat offenders. Lets get them off the street.

NYH1.

NYH1,

IF a federal law is passed that REQUIRES a federal sentence for possessing a deadly weapon while committing (or attempting to commit) a VIOLENT felony, I suspect that NO State would fail to refer the felon to the US Attorney for trial, if only because the prisoner would be on the fed's "dime" for 20 years, while he was in a federal prison..
(Except in CA, which seems to disobey whatever federal statutes that they choose to disregard.)

yours, tex

Easy, if the cop says "Stop and put your hand up"............STOP and PUT YOUR HANDS UP. How many shootings each year could be avoided if that simple step was followed?

Sometimes it's not that easy.
Bob

One would hope. I also remember when HR218 was passed NYPD was still arresting out of state LEO's that were legally carrying under that fed law. Chicago ignores fed law to IIRC.

NYH1.

centershot,

A quite LARGE percentage (I'm guessing over HALF of such incidents.) of "police involved shootings" wouldn't happen if the thugs even HALF-tried to conform to the LEO's directives.

When I was a lawman, the thug would have been VERY UNWISE to NOT put up your hands IF/WHEN I told the the criminal to do so.
(The closest that I ever came to KILLING a thug was when I caught a guy coming out of a window at the PX with stolen property about 0230 in FEB 1988. - I yelled at him to drop his "load" & to get on the ground, with his hands on his head. - He instead reached for his right coat pocket but STOPPED when he realized that he was looking at the muzzle of a 12-gauge pump-gun & that my driver had his M11 pistol out too..
(MOST everybody knows what a load of buckshot will do to their body.)

Had he actually reached into that coat pocket, I would have shot him DEAD & "Bruce P" would likely have shot him, too..

yours, tex

The only thing I can really think of that makes any sense and would end many police shootings is to revoke citizenship and deport anyone convicted for a felony while armed. That would also solve a lot of problems in Chitcago and Baltimore.

It’s not surprising that some cops on the forum want more Federal Laws.

Thankfully, I believe them to be a distinct minority on this forum, but probably typical for cops in general.

Deport to where? How do you make another country take them?

I know how to cure them...by this, many times one way to Africa:

I guess we could pony up like Obunghole did and pay Yemen a billion dollars each to take them.

Somalia would likely do it much cheaper. So would most African countries.

I've long been in favor of an exchange program!

A one way exchange is what I had in mind.

Yeah!

NYH1.

Nah....I like bright hard working immigrants. Too many fat lazy fuggs here as it is.

This isn't about immigrants, it's about criminals. The ones cops shoot and then have lieberals griping about it. I guess another choice would be to shoot the lieberals too.

RickyD,

NAW. - Just send all the Hate-FILLED LIBS to Somalia or another REALLY POOR nation.
(Ther locals will quietly listen to the LEFTIST foolishness, as long as you give them a pittance.)

yours, tex

Get rid of the “malicious intent” threshold for police murder. Hold LEO to the same accountability as everyone else. Why is the lying FBI agent that fired at Finnicum still employed? He lied about taking a pot shot, tried to cover it up and is still playing tactical dress up. Horriuchi is on my short list if I ever get a terminal disease but my short list has gotten a lot longer over the years. 😉

AcesNeights,

WHY is the LYING agent still employed, you ask. = The answer is that it's virtually impossible to fire an employee of the FBI for anything but conviction of a violent felony.
(The same is true of the US Civil Service. = Even INABILITY or UNWILLINGNESS to do the minimum requirements of the job description is seldom considered to be "sufficient cause" to remove them from employment. - What I'm saying is that "the system is fixed" to protect the incompetent, the unwilling & even the dishonest.)

Btw, when I was stationed at the Pentagon, we had a GS11 in our large office, who routinely was observed DRINKING Scotch at work & was frequently DRUNK on the job.
NOBODY, over a decade, was ever able to get rid of "the office drunk". - He finally retired with a full pension, as "Disabled due to Alcoholism".
(NO JOKE).

I also had direct knowledge of a GS-5 Clerk-Typist, who REFUSED to do TYPING, as she claimed that "Typing is a gender stereotypical task for women" & therefore she was "offended by being asked to type" anything.. = While her case was pending, she spent her days reading paperback books, doing her make-up/nails & drinking hot tea.
(The Civil Service Commission eventually AGREED that she could NOT be forced to type OR be removed form her job for insubordination & she was PROMOTED to a job that didn't require her to type.)

yours, tex

That's .Guv for ya.

rocknbbar,
,

"That's .Guv for ya."


You are 100% CORRECT. - That's why that I'd like to see a REAL revolution in the US government. - When you cannot fire people who cannot perform the requirements of the job, refuse to work, are dishonest and/or are "under the influence" of any substance at work, there is a NEED to completely remodel/reformat the government from top to bottom.

IF I had my way, we would return EVERY POSSIBLE government function to the 50 States, return the funds that are then NOT being spent to the taxpayers & prohibit ever opening any new federal agencies.
(We taxpayers need more "federal programs" like we all need an aggressive cancer.)

yours, tex

really simple.

restart Abe Lincoln's plan to inhabit Liberia.

Wow they must have calculated Michael Brown was gonna steal a lotta chit in his lifetime

centershot; All,

SPOT ON. = In all too many such cases, the criminal REFUSED to comply with the lawful directives of the police & subsequently ended up wounded or dead.

As I've said elsewhere, I'd never give a person a "second chance" to do what I told him to do, IF he appeared to be "going for a weapon". = BOOM.

Btw, when I worked briefly as a SDUSM in 2007-2008, I had a creep (The younger brother of a convicted felon, who had DEMANDED that I release his brother from our detention cells) who screamed, "I'm going to the car to get my gun & kill you". - He left the courthouse, I locked the doors (I wanted him outside & away from innocent people.) & literally "pushed the panic button".
4 regular deputies responded, spotted/caught the thug coming back to the courthouse, searched him & found a cocked/locked 9mm Star B handgun on his person & arrested him for "making a terrorist threat". = He was thereafter indicted/tried/convicted/sentenced to federal prison for 3 years.
("Make stupid threats & win stupid prizes.")

yours, tex