Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting I just don't care how old a buck is

In some areas, doing that simply means "tag soup" for the hunter.
Too broad a brush.
Management varies, and has to, even within a state's regions.

I have shot my share of "legal" bucks over the years. When I first started deer hunting over 50 years ago, any legal deer was fair game. These days, I suppose you could call me a trophy hunter. I don't have the slightest desire to kill a buck unless he's wearing a nice set of antlers.......say 140 B&C or better. Now, that may rub some people the wrong way, and if it does, I offer no apology. I am not a meat hunter, as I don't eat much venison. If I want one to eat, I'll kill a doe. If I kill a nice buck, I give the meat to my Mennonite neighbor.

With all that being said, I am the first to admit that the age thing, and the B&C thing has taken a lot of the fun out of deer hunting.....thanks to the TV shows, and all the people that have become celebrities as a result. A person should be able to deer hunt as he damn well pleases. If he wants to kill a deer for the freezer, then so be it, and he should just do that, and go on about his business. On the flip side, if one is after a trophy buck, then they should have that right as well. But, what gets me is that trophy hunting has been taken to a level that has just about ruined the sport. A trophy to one hunter might not be to another, yet today all we hear about is age and inches.

There are parts of the country where deer can live long enough to grow big antlers, and there are places where they can't. I live in an area in which a buck is lucky to see his second set of antlers. The local Mennonites are fixated with antlers, and shoot anything wearing them. A TV show wouldn't have much luck filming here, if they wanted to focus on trophy hunting. So, most years I don't even shoot anything, and I'm happy with that........and that's how one should look at it....whatever satisfies themselves.

You are mistaken sir. Does CAN AND DO have antlers. (From the link I posted above)
".....What about antlered does. Yes, does can have antlers. If you took a normal doe and treated her with testosterone, she would grow antlers. Hunters typically encounter two types of antlered “does”; those with hard antlers and those in velvet. Does with velvet covered antlers usually have normal female reproductive tracts and can bear fawns. Does with hardened antlers are almost always male pseudohermophrodites. These animals have female external genitalia, but have male organs (testicles) internally...."

(Also from the above link) even Frankindeers are possible with some assistance. Antler growth is determined by the level of testosterone.

The skin or tissue that develops at the top of the pedicel reacts to hormones in the deer body and actually causes an antler to grow/develop. The most interesting aspect of this antler growth tissue is that, if it is surgically removed and grafted to another part of the deer’s body, an antler will grow there. For example, it would be possible to surgically produce a unicorn deer or a deer with 10 antlers growing out of its skull or any other part of the body.

The annual antler cycle is ultimately controlled by day length or photoperiod. The brain contains a kind of clock that measures the periods of light and dark and uses this information to ultimately control the secretion of the reproductive hormone testosterone in males. Testosterone controls the antler cycle. In tests, bucks kept in constant 12 hours of light and dark were unable to shed their antlers and grow new ones, and bucks kept in constant light grew and lost three sets of antlers in two years..

Too many deer will equal low body weight. Only so many groceries on a given amount of land. Camp I’m in saw that when we started shooting more does. Over several years avg doe weight went from 70# to 100# with some close to 120#.

We don’t shot the does during rut. But before and after rut. Game on.


The big time trophy hunting and contests take away from the fun of hunting IMO. It got to around here, the big buck contest gave away a 4-wheeler. I watch a FB page that posts deer killed across MS. No matter how big or little the buck is. Someone always has add “it’d been good one next year”.. WTF? Maybe this guy gets to hunt once in a blue moon and that’s his deer for the freezer for the year.

As with kids, i love for kids to kill deer. Any shape and size. Spikes are legal in MS for youth. Get the kids hooked. Let them be trophy hunters when they grow up. Kinda like fishing for kids. Take them bass fishing and it’ll last about five minutes. Take the bream fishing and them will have a ball.

Mr. Angus - Kellory is right about Does CAN have antlers.

I have a pic in my phone of a friend who killed an ANTLERED DOE in Grant Co. Ark. in 2016. I had not planned to post it but I might.
Her antlers were in VELVET - 7 points and w/velvet they look massive.

I, myself would have shot the deer FOR a buck w/o hesitation. I've never killed a buck in velvet - let alone in Deer Season, Nov.-Dec.
His pic w/the deer was in the State Paper out of L. R. Ark.

I don't know you Mr. Angus OR Mr. Kellory. Remember - Never say Never.

Jerry

Very Good Analogy. Never heard or read it. I'd agree with Kids OR Women "where legal".

Jerry

Good post Big Dave.

It doesn't matter if it's a good year or not. In Ohio, we get one buck a year, no matter how we take it, and average 4-7 does, depending on where in the state you hunt.

Edit: here, a buck has 3" of spike or more. Anything less is an "antlerless deer or doe"

Same regs here too ! One buck per licensed hunter, less than 3" = antlerless. Maximum of 2 additionally purchased antlerless tags per licensed hunter, in the same wildlife management unit.

Some more food for thought; Unfortunately in many cases here, letting an antlered deer walk is more likely to result in a shot coming from one of the neighbours, than the deer surviving another year !

Yep, +1 !

I like meat. Lucky me we have doe tags and can shoot culls.

I try to do whats best for the herd regardless. Which means rarely harvesting a mature deer, but taking the bad and the excess all the time. They eat fine. If not better than a wallhanger.

Others don't care at all. Thats ok with me. I just don't want you next to me shooting ever buck that walks by, bringin in the friends and in laws etc... on a 20 acre parcel of land... Other than that if you ( in my particular home area) kill one buck a year, and I do, I hope yours isnt' a promising one but even if it is, I can handle that just fine.

It gets really tough I know, where folks have no chance to shoot a doe or spike or cull. But those that have the chance and say they want a bigger one, but not a mature one are just pot calling kettle black really.

Had a guy last year here send out letters to all us neighbors about management etc... and he was seeing this 11. I agreed. The deer really needed 2-3 years more to be prime and hopefully have bred more does. All he did was get the folks around to not shoot it last year so he could shoot it first thing this year cause it was a bit bigger. I'd seen it all summer long and even into season a bit before he shot it. His choice though. But he was pot calling kettle black. He was selfish in the whole scheme of things. Luckily he doesn';t have a clue whats really out there to make that 11 look fairly small because he doesn't run cameras and hunts out of his dining room window behind the house, the mature deer generally don't do that unless a doe is in heat....

We have 3 pt or better on one side here, after 5 years there are some better bucks! but it seemed like a bunch of 3 1/2 year 8pts were killed this season, I had 4 on trail cams and l killed one, I even passed a fair 6pt. 2 buck a year rule, and some doe tags , I also took a doe, we eat alot of vension, and I try to put 3 a year in the freezer but didnt happand this season I also hunted 46 times! the deer are not in Numbers like they were 5-6 years ago, I also saw many does without fawns this year! with the zreo weather, and alot of snow this early, I hope we dont have a big die off as the older bucks will go! happanded 4 years ago! I wish Id shot the 6 pt now, and next season I dont think Ill pass any legal buck I hunt mostly Nat. Forest land! Cant eat the dam Horns!

Oh yeah, comments on TV... I gave up hunting shows on TV when one came to film where I worked.. what a flipping total joke. About money and nothing else. Yep there seem to be some good ones now and then but I'm just soured on the whole thing. Hunting is personal and not public IMHO.

Comments on young bucks breeding. I've seen a LOT of deer over many years. I"d be willing to venture more exposure than a lot of hunters ever will be due to guiding so many years and starting so young hunting and hunting long seasons every year.

Bucks around here rarely get the chance to breed until they are 3.5 years old. Just how it goes. I've never seen a spike breed a doe unless it was like our old non restricted shoot any buck you want rules were in place years ago. Then it was just the fact there were no bucks.

We hunt a lease that we see on an average sit, 10 bucks give or take. maybe 2 does. on a place like that you also see who really gets the shots at breeding. I'm about the same at home, though its more like 5-6 bucks and a doe now and then. So when a doe comes in, there is a lot of activity and the big boys do NOT let the young one slip in while they are fighting plus the doe won't let the young ones breed typically.

High deer numbers will give you smaller deer every time. And you'll have times where you have a die off from weather or disease. Personally I'd rather shoot a few larger bodied does than a bunch of small ones.

Often on antler regs it takes 5 years to see a difference and then it takes anotehr 5 or so for folks to get over having to kill the first bigger but now legla buck they see.

For the first 30 yeras we owned the place I did all I could to have deer, draw deer etc... was still lucky if we saw deer 3 times a year. The ONLY thing that changed that is the antler regs... people were simply killing almost all the bucks every year. When most of the bucks are young, its pretty easy. They eventually are stupid and get shot. Since the regs, its rare that we go a day without seeing a deer. And I have 7 food plots and 3 protein feeders that they eat on year round.

Amazing what some restraint can eventually build.

But I'm aware regs don't alwasy work the same in every location.

This quote is from P 2 - this thread.




HERE he is: He is NOT any book trophy. I consider him a CULL but I'm HAPPY to have shot him, he went into freezer.
He DRT from my 7mm RM - CNS - he was less than 75 yds from property line. You can see that he had HOOKED his antlers nearly smooth above the hairline.

*** This was the FIRST and ONLY time I saw this particular buck.


YAHOO YAHOO First Attempt of posting from IMGUR, Can't believe it on the FIRST TIME.





Jerry

That’s a dandy!

As for spikes. I’ve always believed cowhorn spikes need killing. A 140# deer with 12” spikes will never amount to anything. Put him in the cooler.

We run cameras. Prolly 15 or more. It gives us a good idea of deer on the property. And ID between folks. You can see an 8pt in the morn and i see the same deer in the eve. And we are going to describe two different deer. But cameras also have
Limitations. I’ve sat and hunted near a camera. Say in a food plot. Or Even the woods. I’ll see 5 deer and only one passes in front of the camera. Well, if i wasn’t there to see it myself, by looking at the camera pics I’d say not much happening there.

I see too many folks chasing a deer on camera. All that tells you is he WAS there. Unless h has a regular routine.

During the Rut. All bets are off. Couple years ago. We had the same buck regularly on cameras on properties 2miles part as the crow flies. So he was roaming! And as he left another deer would roam in.

With another year on him..........




*grins*
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Nice buck, Jerry!

SEE here.



Jerry

Thank You

Jerry

Goodness!