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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
yet we chase platforms, cartridges, and velocities til the cows come home...
lol
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639 |
I'm remnded of a guy sitting at home taking it easy but being bothered by a fly.....and instead of dispatching it with a fly swatter, he calls in a barrage of 16" shells from the USS Wisconsin
Wowsers....a read fly, and gets to the campfire to tout the awesomeness of the Naval assault.....
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,901 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,901 Likes: 1 |
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,961
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,961 |
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I thought about this a good deal in the past few weeks. I decided that 3250 fps matters more than 2700 fps...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
V means a lot to me...lol
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 954
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 954 |
Velocity is nice, but anything over 3000 is probably wasted, the bullet and accuracy to me are most important.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,083
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,083 |
I've killed more bull moose with a .308 Winchester shooting high-quality bullets than most folks have ever seen. I've also killed bull moose with 375H&H, 300 WinMag, 30.06, and 7mm STW. Bullet design and placement is everything - velocity is secondary. If you prefer to shoot at long distances instead of hunting and stalking then velocity might gain some importance. But unless I'm hunting brown bear (I've killed two and have participated in the killing of three more) there's NOTHING a well-placed and well-designed 30-caliber bullet at reasonable (.308 Win) velocities won't do perfectly well on anything in North America.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,833 |
In my older years I've moved away from anything "magnum"
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,673
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,673 |
I think a good balance of velocity and bullet makes the most difference to work well at all distances. Test them on animals enough and you will find this balance.
"Mark the birds and handle your Dog"
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
I've killed more bull moose with a .308 Winchester shooting high-quality bullets than most folks have ever seen. I doubt that, I've seen a LOT of moose. But your point about the 308 remains spot-on. And further, elk really don't require more than a decent cup and core bullet at "standard" velocities. I've seen more elk killed with the 270/130 combo than any other... and all those were with factory cup-and-core 130's. Back to the title of this thread, I'd change it to: " bullet placement matters more than bullets or headstamps"...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Disagree Brad, you cant tell me that a 110 grain Varmint bullet from a .300 ultra mag will matter more than a 180 grainer on moose...no matter where it’s placed.
I think they all go hand in hand.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,790 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,790 Likes: 1 |
Don’t bother Tom, Brad knows all!!
Molon Labe
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,516 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,516 Likes: 1 |
Disagree Brad, you cant tell me that a 110 grain Varmint bullet from a .300 ultra mag will matter more than a 180 grainer on moose...no matter where it’s placed.
I think they all go hand in hand. Placement: Eye ball.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Ok. I’ll give you that. Lol
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Disagree Brad, you cant tell me that a 110 grain Varmint bullet from a .300 ultra mag will matter more than a 180 grainer on moose...no matter where it’s placed. Yeah, but that's just stupid. Hopefully you know that. It should go without saying (seemingly not on this forum) that the bullet should be appropriate to the game and cartridge... bullets are so good today, any C&C bullet designed for BG will work at average velocities. My criteria: 1) Placement 2) Placement 3) Placement 4) Bullet 5) Cartridge But please, do tell your observations killing elk...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 954
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 954 |
I am with John and 08, well hit and well constructed. BUT i have been fortunate to know/known and hunted with five serious elk" hunters" over my life time. Serious as in, hunters who kill elk nearly every year and sometimes in more than one state, All started out with a 30:06, using cup and core bullets, none use either now. . All moved up primarily because of range. In the days of my youth there were no range finders, no turrets, or scopes with built in datum lines. We studied the charts in the back of the loading manuals, went out to a clear cut and stepped off a distance and practiced over the hood of the truck. If we missed an elk (there were few) they were undershot because of underestimating range. All but 2 of these hunters, now shoot .300 or 7 mm magnums, with turret scopes, carry range finders and practice out to 600 yards. The one that doesn't passed away several years ago, another limits his shots to 300 yards. What our sample has found (some where around 200 elk) is that a premium bullet far exceeds the performance of a cup and core bullet from 20 yards out to nearly 600 yards. And that having the extra velocity/energy will in most cases make up for the less than perfect shot. We use Partitions, Accubonds, and Bitteroots, for our hunting. That's my .02 for this day.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Disagree Brad, you cant tell me that a 110 grain Varmint bullet from a .300 ultra mag will matter more than a 180 grainer on moose...no matter where it’s placed. Yeah, but that's just stupid. Hopefully you know that. It should go without saying (seemingly not on this forum) that the bullet should be appropriate to the game and cartridge... bullets are so good today, any C&C bullet designed for BG will work at average velocities. My criteria: 1) Placement 2) Placement 3) Placement 4) Bullet 5) Cartridge But please, do tell your observations killing elk... Wow Brad your so smart you know everything. Oh great one. My argument was against your comment that bullets matter more.....period! That was your comment. I posted an example where you would be wrong. I guess I must have touched a nerve, oh well. How do I go about worshipping your great vast knowledge of everything? Please tell.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Damn, only you could twist something so simple...
I've killed elk with:
Partitions Accubonds Ballistic Tips Hot Cores Interlocks Failsafe's TSX's TTSX's
Only problem I've ever had was with the TTSX and Failsafe, both which didn't open, but still got the job done.
Please tell me your experience?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
“Please tell me your experience “
I knew that would be your argument. Only because you can’t/won’t argue my point on bullets mattering more than the others... I never said those bullets you listed wouldn’t work...I gave an example where your argument would be flat wrong and hurt your big ego. Get over it and grow up
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