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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Hawk1 is correct once a false shoulder is established the head space is correct and no ring in front of the case head.
The shoulder is still .020 or more farther back than the chamber.. No it isn't. One creates the shoulder forward and headspaces off of it; thats the whole point of necking up: you create headspace at the neck/shoulder junction, datum or whatever turns your crank to call it. BEFORE YOU EVER [bleep] FIRE A SHOT. Its mechanical forming, instead of fireforming. Its pretty obvious you can do it (mechanically re-form) after you fireform with die set up; its amazing you cant fathom how THE SAME concept of headspace ceases to exist or dwells in a vacuum of your ignorance! Nothing moves forward and the case head doesnt slam back upon firing with positive case shoulder headspacing (belted, rimmed, semi-rim or rimless) DOES NOT MATTER! Anything swelling to fit moves outward to the chamber upon firing, not fore and aft, and the belt, rim or previous shoulder (even your .020 short one) is negated in deference to it......
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hawk1 is correct once a false shoulder is established the head space is correct and no ring in front of the case head.
The shoulder is still .020 or more farther back than the chamber.. No it isn't. One creates the shoulder forward and headspaces off of it; thats the whole point of necking up: you create headspace at the neck/shoulder junction, datum or whatever turns your crank to call it. BEFORE YOU EVER [bleep] FIRE A SHOT. Its mechanical forming, instead of fireforming. Its pretty obvious you can do it (mechanically re-form) after you fireform with die set up; its amazing you cant fathom how THE SAME concept of headspace ceases to exist or dwells in a vacuum of your ignorance! Nothing moves forward and the case head doesnt slam back upon firing with positive case shoulder headspacing (belted, rimmed, semi-rim or rimless) DOES NOT MATTER! Anything swelling to fit moves outward to the chamber upon firing, not fore and aft, and the belt, rim or previous shoulder (even your .020 short one) is negated in deference to it...... Doesnt change the fact that the straight section to shoulder junction is still .020 back. By making a false shoulder and pushing the case farther toward the bolt face you likely will open this clearance even more. Its amazing you cant wrap your mind around this!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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John is correct.
You're a [bleep] waste of time.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hawk1 is correct once a false shoulder is established the head space is correct and no ring in front of the case head.
The shoulder is still .020 or more farther back than the chamber.. Nothing moves forward and the case head doesnt slam back upon firing with positive case shoulder headspacing (belted, rimmed, semi-rim or rimless) DOES NOT MATTER! Anything swelling to fit moves outward9 to the chamber upon firing, not fore and aft, and the belt, rim or previous shoulder (even your .020 short one) is negated in deference to it...... Where do you suppose that material comes from?
Last edited by BWalker; 03/22/18.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Winchester's 307 and 356 didn't fare too well.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Winchester's 307 and 356 didn't fare too well. The .375 Win didn't either for that matter.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,955 Likes: 3 |
Hawk1 is correct once a false shoulder is established the head space is correct and no ring in front of the case head.
The shoulder is still .020 or more farther back than the chamber.. Nothing moves forward and the case head doesnt slam back upon firing with positive case shoulder headspacing (belted, rimmed, semi-rim or rimless) DOES NOT MATTER! Anything swelling to fit moves outward9 to the chamber upon firing, not fore and aft, and the belt, rim or previous shoulder (even your .020 short one) is negated in deference to it...... Where do you suppose that material comes from? Dam sure doesn’t come from the area of case head separation.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Fails: 22 Jet, 25/30/32 Rem, 32 and 35 Win Self Loader, 30/03, 6mm Lee/Navy, 30 Newton, 22 Savage HP, 219 Zipper, 219 Donaldson Wasp, 300 and 358 Norma mag, most of the Remington Ultra Mags, and 338/06 A-Square come immediately to mind. I had to run downstairs and look through the safes as whatever guns I have was probably a marketing mistake. Hat's off sir-you covered all the ones I was thinking of.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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has anyone mentioned the 17 HM2?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Virgin case. ![[Linked Image]](http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/bwalker1977/20180325_130438_zpsv8t8uymx.jpg)
Last edited by BWalker; 03/25/18.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Once fired case from same gun. ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/gx1Lgnj.jpg) Ring on once fired case. ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/pFp8iac.jpg)
Last edited by BWalker; 03/25/18.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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So, how far does the shoulder move forward when you fireform a standard case to an Ackley Improved case?
Do those AI cases suffer premature case separation?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My AI guns dont do this. Only belted mags. This because standard rounds are set uo to headspace on the shoukder from the get go.
Last edited by BWalker; 03/25/18.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The real problem is factory chambers are long. This is the problem.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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My AI guns dont do this. Only belted mags. This because standard rounds are set uo to headspace on the shoukder from the get go. Which is the same effect that a false shoulder has. Are you this OCD about everything? Give it a rest. And go find something productive to preach/obsess about.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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My AI guns dont do this. Only belted mags. This because standard rounds are set uo to headspace on the shoukder from the get go. Which is the same effect that a false shoulder has. Are you this OCD about everything? Give it a rest. And go find something productive to preach/obsess about.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Ben, I get similar results to what you've shown with my 350 Rem. Mag. If I were to fire form new cases with a false shoulder it is a matter of speculation how the brass would flow to fit the chamber. Does it first stretch near the base and pile up in the shoulder, or does the shoulder unfold first to fill out the chamber. That speculation is above my pay grade, but the real problem is the chamber.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 9,472 |
My AI guns dont do this. Only belted mags. This because standard rounds are set uo to headspace on the shoukder from the get go. Which is the same effect that a false shoulder has. Are you this OCD about everything? Give it a rest. And go find something productive to preach/obsess about. OK, for the umpteenth time...A false shoulder will not prevent this. And its pretty easy to see why...
Last edited by BWalker; 03/25/18.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 9,472 |
Ben, I get similar results to what you've shown with my 350 Rem. Mag. If I were to fire form new cases with a false shoulder it is a matter of speculation how the brass would flow to fit the chamber. Does it first stretch near the base and pile up in the shoulder, or does the shoulder unfold first to fill out the chamber. That speculation is above my pay grade, but the real problem is the chamber. I have done the false shoulder trick. The results are the same.
Last edited by BWalker; 03/25/18.
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