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Model70guy,
I've done a lot of culling as well, and one thing I've learned from the experience is that judging all bullets of a certain brand by the results from one particular batch is often a mistake. Have also seen expansion problems with TSX's, but often with only one batch of bullets. One particular problem batch was some 100-grain TSX's that failed to expand on several occasions, even when shot from a .257 Weatherby at 3550 fps.
But have also seen well over 100 TSX's used on other big game animals that expanded and killed well, even at pretty long ranges, from 120 6.5mm to 250-grain 9.3's. I suspect (based on considerable evidence) that most of the problem with TSX's not opening occurs in bullets from 6mm to .30, because the hollow-point is so small it can be battered at least partially shut on the front of the magazine box during recoil. I've never seen or heard of it happening with TSX's over .30 caliber, all of which have larger hollow-points, or in .22 caliber TSX's, probably because of the light recoil.
That said, in my experience Tipped TSX's (and Nosler E-Tips) expand and kill reliably, both because the plastic tip prevents the hollow-point from being battered, and because the hole is much larger, to accommodate the base of the tip. I have only heard one one instance where a TTSX didn't expand, which as I recall occurred on an angling shot where the tip was bent sideways. But I have never personally seen it happen, either with Tipped TSX's or E-Tips, on over 100 animals take by me and my companions, from pronghorns and springbok to zebra and bull elk.
My hunting notes have quantified a difference in how far lung-shot animals travel after being shot with "petal" type bullets, whether TSX's, E-Tips or the old Fail Safe, but it averages out a little over 50 yards, compared to 18 yards for the fastest-killing bullet I've seen take a considerable number of animals, the Berger Hunting VLD. Other expanding bullets are somewhere in between those, with lung-shot animals traveling 30-40 yards after the shot. Interesting that you have witnessed the 100 grain .257 fail to expand. I have had the same experience with the 100 grain ttsx failing to expand out of a 25-06 going 3200 fps. About 2 out of 10 fail to expand(sample size of about 500+), and when recovered, look like an un shot bullet with a slightly bent nose(plus rifling marks of course). I chalked it up to the smaller caliber not having a big enough opening at the hollow point, as I have never had a 7mm or bigger ttsx fail to expand. I have used the tsx very little, so I can't comment on those.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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qwk,
Interesting. What were you shooting them into?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Coyotes, dirt bank, phone books, it didn't seem to matter. I have a metal detector and recovered most of them. Distance shot was from about 100 to 300 yards. As soon as I have time, I'll test some out of a .223, and .243.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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How many were caught in coyotes?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If I was going to run a TSX/TTSX at 2,800, I'd probably use something else, maybe a Fed TBT, NPT, etc.
150 gr. at 3K would be my choice between those two loads. I'd be concerned about expansion, maybe sub the LRX, reportedly a bit softer.
I'd like to hear testimonies about the TTSX at 2,800 fps. I've never run one that slow.
DF
Edited to exclude the big bores. I like the 250 TTSX in my .375 H&H. That one at 2,800 or better works pretty well. I'm thinking .30 cal and under. Not exactly what you are asking bought we used my M70 358 Win with the 200 gr TTSX at 2650 fps on eight or nine animals in 2012 from springbuck and warthog through gemsbuck and wildebeest with stellar performance with all animals dropping either right now or within 10 yards or so. We recovered one bullet from a warthog that carried the bullet diagonal from near shoulder to off hip. Picture perfect and still weighing 200 grs. In June I am taking a 30-06 loaded with the 168 gr TSX to Namibia with zero worries regarding expansion. I have killed a fair bit of game with the X/TSX in the 416 Rem (Africa cape buffalo and plains game last year), the 9.3x62 (Africa 2002 plains game), 35 Whelen (BC moose/elk) and the 338-06 (a couple of elk) with stellar performance every time. They are all I use.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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How many were caught in coyotes? 22, all went through of course, with 3 unopened. The odd part is Ive shot many more than that using a 120 grain 7mm ttsx going 3k, and a 168 30 cal grain ttsx going 2800 with no failures to expand. I've shot a few deer lengthwise with the 168 30 cal going 2800, and they all expanded also. Ive tried to do the same with the .257 100 grainers, but haven't had the opportunity to do so yet.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Have you contacted Barnes about your batch of "hard" bullets?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Gents, thanks for all the great input and experiences. At some point I'll be rebarreling a Pre 64 M70 action to 30'06 and this has all been helpful!
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Am going to South Africa in late May for a cull PG hunt and am bringing a Blaser R93 .30/06 with a Zeiss 2.5-10x42 rail mount scope. Ammunition is Barnes factory loaded 168 grain TTSX. These loads have grouped at .900" at two hundred (200) yards in that rifle for 3 shots. Also tested the new Federal Edge TLR 175 grain .30/06 load on the range, which also shot very well. But despite posting an enquiry here on the 'Fire, could not find anyone who had actually shot game with the Edge TLR, so I settled on the Barnes. South African PH I will be hunting with strongly recommended the 168 grain TTSX as well.
Will post results when I return.
Have shot lots of bait animals when cat hunting in years past with the PH's .30/06 and 180 grain Barnes TSX as loaded by Federal. As is the case with all hunting, shot placement is critical. While most dropped at the shot (if I did my part), I shot an impala too far back at 200 yards and chased the poor animal for several hours before finally putting it down with my .470 at close range.
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Have you contacted Barnes about your batch of "hard" bullets? No. The ones I handloaded were from a bulk buy(don't know how many lots), but I also bought some Vor-tx factory ammo, and there was really no difference as far as the duds went. That's why I said I chalked it up to the smaller caliber hollow point as being the culprit. Barnes are made out of 99.9% pure copper, and the GMX/E-Tip are gilding metal(~95% copper), so I'm not sure how much a bit of impurity would affect expansion. I still have the bullets, I guess I could have them tested for exact metal content.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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qwk,
Now I'm a little confused. In your first post you called your bullets "ttsx," which normally stands for Tipped TSX, with the plastic tip. Now you mention the tiny hollow-points.
Are your .25 bullets Tipped TSX's or plain, hollow-point TSX's?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2016
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qwk,
Now I'm a little confused. In your first post you called your bullets "ttsx," which normally stands for Tipped TSX, with the plastic tip. Now you mention the tiny hollow-points.
Are your .25 bullets Tipped TSX's or plain, hollow-point TSX's? tipped tsx(blue tip). If you pull the tip out, there is a hollow point like the tsx. It must not be big enough to expand in smaller calibers as consistently. That's the only logical conclusion I can make from my experience so far. Unless somebody spends the time and effort like I did, how are they going to know what their bullet did after it left the barrel? This is especially true with the mono bullets, as they have unbelievable penetration. I would be willing to bet this happens more than one thinks. Having said that, Barnes is still my go to bullet for all big game.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I’m thinking the TTSX has a larger cavity than the TSX.
In the big bores, the TSX opens pretty well. To me, the small bore TSX bullets are the ones more prone to not opening well.
DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 03/29/18.
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Going on my one and only Moose hunt in November. Was thinking of using my 30/06 or my 7mm mag. Should I use the 150hr TTSX or the 165gr TTSX, also have
168gr TTSX , and Federal Trophy Bonded Bear claw 165gr. For powder I,m using RL26 at 3008fps in the 165gr bullets and the 150gr TTSX at 3100fps with RL17,RL16
and Superformance. I,ve only shot 160gr Accubonds in the 7mm at 3050fps with Retumbo and Norma MRP. I have some 150gr TTSX for the 7mm but have not shot any.
I,m going to load some 150gr 7mm tomorrow. Never hunted with the Barnes bullets before.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Going on my one and only Moose hunt in November. Was thinking of using my 30/06 or my 7mm mag. Should I use the 150hr TTSX or the 165gr TTSX, also have
168gr TTSX , and Federal Trophy Bonded Bear claw 165gr. For powder I,m using RL26 at 3008fps in the 165gr bullets and the 150gr TTSX at 3100fps with RL17,RL16
and Superformance. I,ve only shot 160gr Accubonds in the 7mm at 3050fps with Retumbo and Norma MRP. I have some 150gr TTSX for the 7mm but have not shot any.
I,m going to load some 150gr 7mm tomorrow. Never hunted with the Barnes bullets before.
You cannot make a bad choice. Neither are much different.
Semper Fi
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Going on my one and only Moose hunt in November. Was thinking of using my 30/06 or my 7mm mag. Should I use the 150hr TTSX or the 165gr TTSX, also have
168gr TTSX , and Federal Trophy Bonded Bear claw 165gr. For powder I,m using RL26 at 3008fps in the 165gr bullets and the 150gr TTSX at 3100fps with RL17,RL16
and Superformance. I,ve only shot 160gr Accubonds in the 7mm at 3050fps with Retumbo and Norma MRP. I have some 150gr TTSX for the 7mm but have not shot any.
I,m going to load some 150gr 7mm tomorrow. Never hunted with the Barnes bullets before.
Hunting moose here is a yearly occurance, we've had over the counter tags my whole life. There's nothing wrong with your 7mm, and there's nothing wrong with your 160 Accubonds. The Barnes is a step backwards.
Life begins at 40. Recoil begins at "Over 40" Coincidence? I don't think so.
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An accubond better than a mono on thick skinned game? Lol. Have you even used mono's?
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I don't hunt with Barnes bullets, and have little experience. But my cousin shoots them in his 06, and he had a moose tag here in Montana. I called a nice bull in for him, and he shot it broad side at 75 yds. He shot it behind the shoulder,and gave him 1 more because his guide told him to. The bull only made it 20 yds. Two exit holes about the size of a quarter, internal damage, why sufficient, was not extensive. Any bullet through the lungs would have killed the moose at that range, but the Barnes worked as advertised. I think it was 165 gr. Just 1 observation, take it for what it is worth. Hope it helps.
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An accubond better than a mono on thick skinned game? Lol. Have you even used mono's? Probably more than you can imagine. And moose as thick-skinned game? Get real.
Life begins at 40. Recoil begins at "Over 40" Coincidence? I don't think so.
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An accubond better than a mono on thick skinned game? Lol. Have you even used mono's? Probably more than you can imagine. And moose as thick-skinned game? Get real. They must have them thin-skinned whitetail moose in your neck of the woods.....
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