Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters MuleDeer->270 win excessive wind drift?

Just a few comments:

Wind drift is controlled by three factors: wind (duh!), ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity.

For shooting at "normal" ranges, most .270 bullets don't drift any more than most standard hunting bullets, because they have BC's in the same range as most other bullets.

While a very few .270 bullets have pretty high BC's, most aren't nearly as high as the highest-BC 6.5mm and 7mm bullets. So yeah, they will drift more than many other bullets these days.

The 170-grain Berger .270 bullet will stabilize in a 1-10 inch twist in most conditions. As an example, it shoots fine around where I live, because the lowest elevation is 4000 feet above sea level.

The biggest problem with the 270 boils down to excessive headspace. That has nothing to do with the rifle, it is excessive space in the heads of those that think the 270 isn't capable of performing exceptionally well with all kinds of bullets and loads.

What's missing here is the fact that holding or dialing is not the issue with compensating for wind, the issue(s) with compensating for wind are:

1) An individual's ability to judge wind; and

2) Wind speed/direction are not constants between the shooter and target.

So there's a certain margin of error inherent in judging and compensating for wind drift.

And the higher the BC, the less the error matters.

I want a 270 GAP to shoot the 170 Berger or a 7.04 mm WSM. With a G1 BC of .663 I think it would take more than a sneeze to blow it off course.

The Headspace thing started with the Gun writers especially Elmer. OK for coyotes and Eagles, not good enough for Elk and on and on ad nauseum.

Then there is Ingwe getting his leopard print thong in a knot over the 270 all the time.

Hi Mule Deer

Thanks for the comments! I've always lamented the fact that the .270 Win does not have faster rates of twist than 1 in 10 inches. Your observations are right on. The high BC's of the 7 mm and 6.5 mm bullets are more than the .270 Win because of the faster 1 in 8 twist
of the two calibers available today. Normal ranges are the only distances that I've ever shot at.

Wellllll....! I see that at longer ranges the .270 bullets will drift more. LIFE IS NOT PERFECT! This just says one must hold into the wind more and pray the estimation is right.


ripshin

The phrase in question, about drifting in the wind, was made to me during a discussion Mule Deer and I were engaged in regarding the merits of the 6.5 CM. John knows me very well and knows that I have done lots of hunting with various 270’s. He was gently making a point and teasing me.
In the words of Boxer/Big Stick, it is all about bullets. The high performance developments are taking place in 6.5 and 7. Certainly companies could build high BC 277’s but they don’t. So, accept things as they are or complain or do your best with what you have.

Hi RinB

Thanks for the where the quote came from(and very funny). Yeah, you're right about the 6.5 mm and 7 mm bullets! All is not lost in my situation.
About 15 years ago I purchased a CZ 550 in 6.5 Swede and used it only for my East Tennessee Ground Hog Zapper. It worked/works very well
with 100 gr. Sierra bullets. Velocity is 3,000 fps and is flat shooting and accurate( many 1/2 inch groups). One pound of Rl15 powder gives me about 7 1/2 boxes of ammo.

My Sierra 6 Infinity Program shows me all the advantages of the 6.5 caliber. Soooooo..... I guess I will start using the 6.5 x 55 for all of my long range hunting and varmint shooting. But, I've noticed that most of my .270 Win shots on big game have produced one shot kills with four hooves sticking up into the air.

Thanks for the info.

ripshin

I began using the 270 in 1970. Have taken about 95% of my big game with that cartridge using a 130 grain bullet. The count is substantial and need not be recited but I promise it is significant. Any problems were the result of operator error. Second was a 280/140.

I see a lot of merit in a 6.5/~140 (bc.625) @ 2850-2900 or so. I don’t see the any reason for much more speed. I want a case a little larger than the 6.5 CM so I can use a 22” bbl and get to the velocity I want. Some rifles shoot better at less than max so, for me, a little more engine makes sense.

When I started there weren’t high bc hunting bullets. Bullets available today have changed the formula for BG hunting performance.

Still the majority of shots are inside 300 so much of this is about preparing for the least likely scenario. I enjoy getting closer. More interesting to me.

a 6.5 140 at 2900 ... that screams 6.5x284 but the ammo is so expensive, and the 6.5 Rem mag is no where to be seen

I guess that's why I use a 6.5 CM with 140's at 2825 It is pretty economical

Dogger,

Which is why new 6.5 cartridges a little more powerful than the Creedmoor are appearing. The 6.5 PRC, recently introduced by Hornady, is very close to the 6.5/.284 and 6.5 Remington Magnum in case capacity, but is better suited to working through a short action, due to being based on the beltless Ruger Compact Magnum case.
Factory and pressure-tested handloads are 2900+ with bullets in the 140-grain class. It's not a big boomer like the .264 Winchester, 26 Nosler and 6.5/.300 Weatherby, but is right between them and the 6.5 Creedmoor.

The Sauer 100 XT chambered in 6.5 PRC is showing on the web page at Euro Optic... not in stock... yet... i am sorely tempted...

I've been reading these forums for quite a while but this is the first time that I've taken part in a discussion. This is a subject that hits close to home as I have my first Montana Mule Deer hunt coming up this fall. The hunt is on an active ranch and the outfitter said to practice out to 400+ as the smarter old boys like to bed up in the middle of the alfalfa pivots surrounded by does with no way to sneak in closer. I gotta confess that while I regularly practice out to 300 at the local range, I've never taken a shot on game past 285, which was on a South Dakota whitetail. Last year I passed up a 450yd shot on about a 150+ class WT deer in Montana because I just wasn't comfortable at that range. So for the last 7 months, I've spent several hours nearly every weekend at a 1000 yd range. I have been reloading for over 30 yrs now and read all the articles on the ability of the seemingly magical Creedmoor to buck the wind and put bullets on target way farther than 99% of us should be shooting at game (myself included). I picked up a Savage long range hunter in the 6.5CM and I do absolutely love shooting it. It shoots the 143 ELD-X into nice tight little bughole groups with minimal recoil at around 2700 (through the chrono). I also have a Tikka 270 that shoots the Superformance 130 SST through the chrono right at the advertised 3200fps and consistently prints 3/4" groups at 100 and consistently centerpunches the 10" plate at 400, and I have a Fierce Fury 300wm that absolutely loves 180 Accubonds or 180 TTSX. One thing I have noticed at the range is that whether I was shooting the 6.5 CM, the 270 or even the 300 win, the difference in wind drift between the 3 out to 400yds wasn't nearly what I expected. Even at 500 and 600 there really wasn't a lot of difference between the 6.5 and the 270, but I notice that my 300 wm shooting the 180 Accubonds at 3190fps seemed easier to hold my groups as the wind picks up. I get that the heavier 180 AB with a decent BC would buck the wind pretty well but I was surprised that the .620 BC 6.5 wasn't holding up considerably better than the 130 grainer from the 270. Maybe some of you guys with more long range experience can help me with this. I'm assuming that the raw speed of the 270 (shooting nearly 500fps faster than the 6.5) makes up most of the difference in BC's at 400yds? I've been debating which gun to use on this hunt since up til now I've never really had to worry about wind much when all my shots have been under 300. I've never killed anything with the CM and I don't feel like experimenting on a paid hunt. Meanwhile, I've taken several deer each with the 270 and 300, both tried and true rounds for me. I like that the 180 accubonds buck the wind better and the 300wm shoots amazingly accurate (the paint splatters on the ram at 400 nearly all touch when my 50+ yr old eyes have a good day), but the 270 Tikka T3 lite is wonderful to carry in the field. Sorry to get so long winded, but is there any real life advantage of the 300wm or 6.5CM over the 270 out to 500 yds?

708man
Mule Deer answered your question in a recent article about the 270. Out to 500 there isn’t much difference. You are handling the biggest challenge...your shooting ability. I would leave the 300 at home.
Practice and your physical conditioning will make the biggest difference.

What?

Your range experience will rock the boat of some, not mine.

Since you shoot the 300 WM ( WELL was omitted, i thot it but it didn’t make it to my fingers) I would not automatically leave it at home. I shoot mine well too.

ATST I really like my T 3 Lite 270 & T3x Lite 7 RM.

If it were me, I would take the TWO I wanted to hunt most. The second would be my backup. (stuff happens)!!
Good Luck


Jerry

Thanks jwall. Like I said, I'm new to what I consider "long distance hunting". I've taken my share of whitetails, a few fallow deer, an elk and even a red stag but have always tried to get closer than 300 yds. I do plan on taking both the 270 and 300 with the 270 being my choice just because it's so easy to handle and still holds groups around 5" or so at 500.

I actually plan on using the 140 SST's rather than the 130's as they group a little better for me past 300 and not that much difference in drop. It's topped with a Zeiss HD5 3-15 with the RZ800 reticle. With a 200yd zero at 13x the crosshairs are pretty much dead on out to 800. That being said, I already told the outfitter that even though I have practiced a good bit and gotten pretty comfortable shooting 400, 500 and 600, if he can get me in close enough to hit the buck in the head with a rock there would be something extra in it for him. I'd rather prove my long distance skills on steel and shoot the buck at 50 ;-)

If the weather is a little more breezy I'll probably break out the 300. I have that set up a little different. Topped with a Vortex Razor HD, the Fierce Fury is one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned and with the 180 accubonds running through the chrono at nearly 3200, the ballistic reticle doesn't really work well so I went back old school with a 300yd zero. It only prints about 6" - 7" low at 400 and about 18" at 500 at the range, which turned out to be a touch flatter than my ballistics calculator says it should shoot. Even though the Fury is fairly light (for a 300) it's still a pound or so heavier than the 270 and since the 300 has the 26" barrel plus 2" muzzle brake, the Tikka just handles and balances better.

I planned on using the 270 in the beginning but between the outfitter telling me he uses a 300wm with partitions on everything, the fact that almost nobody else at the range was shooting their 270's past 300 and the load of articles out their saying the 270 can't handle the wind had me second guessing my old faithful 270. The vast majority of my deer hunting is done with either the 25-06 or my 7mm08, both Steyr's and both shoot better than I can. For this longer range hunt, I wanted a little more bullet weight than my 25 with the 115 partitions and a little flatter trajectory than my 7-08 140 accubonds.

Besides, if I only use the '06 and 7-08 all the time, it's hard to justify to my wife that I need the 270 for the 195-213lb deer and the 300 for the 245-270lb deer!