Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns DA/SA

I'm a sixgun guy. I like double action revolers better
than single action revolvers for tack driving & general
use.

I have nothing against the striker fire system. I use 2
S&W M&P handguns & have no fault with those two. I even
use a Ruger LCP [DA] for deep carry.

The DA/SA Auto system is something I'd like to hear you
guys voice your opinion on. I chose the CZ 75 to
explore this system & it's the first DA/SA Auto I've
owned.

I like the DA first shot & have no problem with the SA
second shot. I also like being able to manually cock
the hammer for the first shot at a ground hog or crow.

The DA/SA platform I'm using can also be carried cocked
& locked. If I'm hindered from lowering the hammer
after a shot simply engaging the thumb safety renders
the pistol safe to holster or lay down if nessacary.

I'm not trying to beat the drum for the DA/SA platform
but to simply give an assessment after shooting the CZ
75 [PreB] for a couple years.

So you guys chime in on this platform. You can discuss
a certain pistol if you like but the operating system
[DA/SA] is more the opinion I'm looking for.

The CZ 75 was never meant to be carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber---it was designed and meant to be carried cocked and locked alla a 1911. The double action was a feature to allow for a second hammer strike should the chambered cartridge fail to fire. That's why the originals have no "de-cocking" device. In the the 70's there was a glut of Czech ammo that had very hard primers apparently intended for submachine gun usage. Manually lowering the hammer on a live round is an "iffy" proposition under ideal conditions.

What you're referring to is the traditional double action auto, like a Beretta 92. They are designed to be carried hot, with the hammer decocked via a decocking lever, no manual safety or manual safety left disengaged.

For self-defense, there's really nothing wrong with it, and it's actually a great advantage in terms of safety, since you don't need a manual safety to be engaged (so it's ready to go with one long pull for the first round), and that long first pull on the trigger becomes the safety, i.e., it's not going off unless you actually intended it to go off.

The only drawback is the shot to shot point of impact from first to second and consecutive shots is typically a bit off, absent lots of regular practice on the transition. No big deal, because that first shot is typically going to only be five or six inches low vs all the rest at typical gun fight distances, and an abdomen shot is not an ineffective hit anyway. This pattern can be disconcerting at the range, though, which is why some people don't like it. But, again, with lots of transition practice (decock, fire, fire, decock, fire, fire, etc.), even that can be overcome.

Over all, I like them for the reasons stated above, i.e., it provides a very safe, ready to go, condition for carry, which doesn't require that a manual safety be disengaged prior to firing (i.e., it can be left disengaged when carried, or can even not have a manual safety, such as the CZ-75D models and certain variations of the Beretta 92).

……pretty sure that Gunsite had the same experience as the Chapman Academy----the incidents of negligent discharge is SIGNIFICANTLY higher with da/sa handguns than either sa autos or revolvers…….as you alluded to, they require "lots of transition practice"…..far more complicated protocol and training sequence than any other type of handgun. The "newbies" that have shown up for shooting lessons with da/sa guns were always nerve racking to work with. Experienced hand gunners, not so much.

The comment, "a very safe, ready to go, condition for carry, which doesn't require a manual safety be disengaged prior to firing," reminds me of the Illinois State Trooper that had his newly issued S&W 39 "snatched" by a miscreant who then tried to shoot him with it. Apparently the trooper had decocked but not returned the lever to the fire position and the crook couldn't figure out how to make the gun go off….I guess in that particular case, the gun was safer than anything else he could have been carrying that day!! Other than that…safer????? I don't know.

A couple of noted trainers like Hackathorn and Farnam have opined that they don't think that da/sa guns will even be around in the near future. Adding your agreement that it's difficult to transition from da to sa in rapid fire w/o broad shot dispersement, I can't figure out why any civilian that's new to shooting would choose one when there are so many good options available.
JMO=YMMV

Perhaps someone (not me) who is bound and determined to carry AIWB and doesn't want to risk losing his family jewels, or worse.

PS I carry Glocks, and those IWB at 4:00, but I don't think a traditional double action auto is a terrible choice. Just not my personal choice.

The CZ can be carried cocked and locked and used just like a SA 1911. If needed for some reason, DA is available. There is no downside to that.

….manually lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber is MAJOR downside vs having a decocking lever.

Does a CZ 75 not have a transfer bar?

….the 75B has a firing pin block, but no transfer bar per se……the 75BD has a decocking lever…..with the 75B and original 75, you have to manually pull the trigger while simultaneously manually lowering the hammer with your other hand….then hope that your fingers don't slip. To say that there's no downside to that is…..well…..lots of people have done it for years and years….still it's just a matter of time……

I have a CZ 75B that I had CZ Customs in AZ do a full action job on including new hammer and trigger. I was planning on using it for Production class in USPSA. Even though the double action pull is very nice and the single action is too, I just don't like the DA/SA transition in this application. And, in Production class for USPSA, you have to start with the hammer down. So, after you load and make ready, you're having to lower the hammer down every time and I don't care for that.

Angus does great work and is a cool guy.

One of my main CCW pistols is a CZ 75D PCR. It is DA/ SA with no safety, but has a decocker. Never saw that as a problem.

I wonder does anyone know why at IDPA and all other competition events you don’t see many double/single action pistols. People can talk themselves into anything I guess, but most have recognized the DA/SA krunchintickers are a thing of the past.

for bwing a thing of the past there is still a schidt lpad of LE agencies issuing/approving them

Absolutely, because life is an IDPA match.

My unholstered night stand pistol is a DA/SA my regular carry guns are striker fired.

Situation dictates what I use,


Mike

The DA/SA is unnecessarily complex.

….great gun and no problem…..you just can't carry it cocked and locked like the standard 75.



….because the da to sa transition to date has been unmastered to a level to be competitive with a really good sa shooter.----Langdon's the only one that I know of that's come close.


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