Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles .280Rem + H4831SC = optimal load?

It looks like H4831 is the best temperature insensitive powder for the .280Rem.. I am going to concentrate on the 160gr. Partition. A couple of manuals indicate 55gr. of H4831 is max.
I am not a speed freak and willing to trade a few fps for accuracy.
Does anyone else have something to add? H1000?

Reloader 22

WN

Read other threads on similar subjects. If you want to shoot 160s, IMO, you'd be better off with a slower powder. You're not a speed freak? OK, do you want to shoot real slow? Or shoot fast but safe accurate loads? R-22! OR VV-N165 with 160s. You'll optimize velocity AND accuracy. Think slow! H-1000, IMR7828, if you want to shoot 160s. H4831 would work for sure, but it would be on the fast end for 160s IMO.

My 160 load in .280: 60grs R-22, 160 Partition, WLR primer. 24" bbl gets right at 3000fps. And yes its a very accurate load...nobody that knows squat will tell you more speed equals less accuracy as a rule.

I agree with that last sentence.

I'm just curious, but it that one of the loads that you've had someone check via quickload? That's sounds like a strong load for a 280AI let alone a 280. Alliant calls for a max. load using less than that behind a 140 is why I'm askin'.

Well I'll start with H4831 in the 160's and use it as a benchmark.

That's always a good benchmark........RL22, 7828 or Ramshot Magnum probably will do better, velocity wise though. Norma MRP is also very good if you can get any.

MM

mtnman,

Published .280Rem Data is fixed at SAAMI specs for the .280Rem 60,000psi. .270Win SAAMI specs are set at 65,000psi. The 30-06 is set at 60,000psi. Does it make sense? Yes, to SAAMI. The truth is you can run the .280 and 30-06 to 65,000psi safely in modern bolt or singleshot rifles. I don't generally do it with my 30-06 just because. But I handload my .280Rem to .270Win SAAMI pressures. I have no pressure testing equipment. I developed my loads looking at 270, 280, and 30-06 data. I understand there are differences in the bore capacity, and thats why a 30-06 can run a 150gr pill at or close to 3000fps at VERY moderate pressures. While a .270 can do it, but at about max pressure, though within SAAMI specs. So then, why not a .280? Its been my belief that a .280 will do with 140s, 150s, and 160s, what .270 will do with 130s, 140s, and 150s at similar pressures. Likewise a 30-06 will do it with 150s, 165s, and 180s. The differences in wts at the same or near same velocity is a product of the different bore capaciies of each. Alliant's load data shows 165s pushing 2900fps, and 180s at 2800fps and not even really close to max SAAMI pressures. So, thats how I developed my "hot rod" data.

The answer to your actual question is yes its been run through Quickload. Pressure per Quickload was 63,928 and a velocity of 2987fps. Since I have no pressure testing equipment, all I have to go on is that SAAMI says a maximum save AVG. pressure for the .270Win is 65,000, Im attempting to load my .280 and remain at or below safe .270 pressres as established by SAAMI. It appears that in my guns my loads are at that level, though admittedly at the top end. You may not wish to go there, and that is your call.

Some of the things I do that I feel work for me shooting what some consider "hot loads"...I measure each and every charge and I trickle powder to the exact charge wt. I don't shoot my bbls hot. I don't shoot in 100 degree weather. Lastly, I've shot the loads I've published here at the fire for many years prior to coming here. I have only my experiences to go on, and the data in books to help guide me. Thuse far in 20 years of loading I have never so much as blown a primer. Might happen tomorrow, but it aint happened yet. Lastly, I use velocity as my #1 indicator of pressure, then I check the brass signs. Im not saying I can obtain book velocity with the published loads, but the published velocities are safely obtainable on average. Every gun is different. Some are slow, some super fast. Im using the slower end powders. Pressure spikes are less likely to happen with them as opposed to the faster ones. Im obtaining published velocities, and all the indicators I have to go on say that Im doing it within safe pressure specs.

didn't mean to step on a nerve, just curious about the load as it sounded a bit hot. and for that matter apparently it is hot just based on the quickload pressure numbers. Guess the only comment I'd make for whatever it's worth is to say that if you're publishin' those loads for folks, you might wanna provide some of that additional background so they understand that it's walkin' on the edge a bit.

mtnman,

No nerve hit. I just got long winded...I could have just answered the question and left it at that. Yes, Quickload says its hot. According to SAAMI its still under Max Avg Pressure for the .270Win which I consider safe to shoot in a .280Rem. Honestly, IF my loads run an average pressure under 65K psi, I don't even consider that running the ragged edge...BECAUSE I know that SAAMI and the industry have set the "Max Avg. Safe Pressure" well short of the ragged edge.

Bottom line, I don't advocate doing it the way I do it for anyone but me, or someone else that wants to do it my way. For them I'll provide my data freely and issue the standard caveat: These loads have proved safe thus far in my guns, YMMV, work up to these max loads.

280REM you are spot on. I also reload the 280 and 270 to potential. The 270 can handle a 130 with 62Gr of H4831 and a mag primer. Velocity is 3150FPS. The 280 can also handle 59-60 gr of RL22 under a 160gr. I also have been doing it for years. All loads group very well. Brass lasts 20 or more reloads and I also have never blown a primer or had a case separation.

Blessings

PEF

Ed,

Maybe its just me and you bud, but when SAAMI says "Maximum Safe Average Pressere" I take that to mean "The posted speed limit" not "as fast as you can actually go". IOW, "Maximum Safe Average Pressure" is just that...not the absolute ragged edge. FWIW, my .280s have run 140s in excess of 3200fps...with 2 seperate loads. One was my mistake in data, and the other was a box of Hornady Lite Mag. Neither showed signs of excess pressure...unless of course you count velocity as a sign. Personally, I do take that as an absolute sign of being in dangerous territory. JME, YMMV.

Just a quick post of my first session today with the Rem Mt. LSS in .280. After digging thru 30" of snow to get to frozen grass I got the chrono all set up. After some zeroing in and settling the scope in, my results are the following.

55.o gr H4831SC with a 160 gr. Partition, WLR and (-.030") showed 2637 fps. Hodgdon posts it as 2660fps so it is very close for a change. Groups around an inch but too some to many any opinions.

The 55gr. H4831SC load with 160gr. Accubonds came in as a consistent 3/4 - 1" groups. Velocity was 2647fps.
I know SAAMI redlines the .280 at 60,000psi and this load is listed at 49,500psi. I think I have a little room to "kick it up a notch" to see how the speed and accuracy are affected.

CAREFUL!

The online Hodgdon data is not in PSI but in CUP! PSI and CUP are 2 different animals

You have a little room, but not as much as you think! MAX is going to be in the 57-58gr range with H4831, at about 2850fps give or take. Only the slower powders such as R-22, H1000, IMR7828 will give you 2900+ safely with 160s. Not to mention you're running a 22" bbl as well. 2900-2950fps with 160s will be top end!

Mr. Bigwhoop ...

You ARE A WARRIOR!! I'm still trying to figure out when I'm going to run some loads at paper this month in time to attempt "VMAX meets the murder on the North Forty" with the Two Bit Aught and my various 7's ...

BTW ... should you notice a mess of crows that need to be turned into a Non-NEA funded art project with the media of lead, guts and feathers on a snirty canvas ... please PM me before March passes ...

With Noslers, I find them to be "honest" when using a chrono to guesstimate pressures. 2650fps suggests you have room to grow with that load. Kick it up another grain.

If you're happy with the velocities and accuracy with H4831 I'd chose it over RL22.

My Ballistic Tips will almost always turn a tad smaller groups than Partitions--regardless of cartridge or rifle--I suspect the it's the same with Accubonds. If I can (very) slow fire 5 shot 1 inch groups-- and then anything better I consider icing on the cake for a hunting load.

Casey

Thanks .280. Here are my second day results.
I bumped up from 55gr H4831 to 56 - same 160g Partition at the same OAL.
56gr. H4831 = 2687fps - 9 shots total
57gr. H4831 = 2714fps - 9 shots total

The accuracy was quite poor so more work is needed.I am still at -.030" - my usual starting point.

For the 160gr. Accubonds the bump up shows:

56gr. H4831 = 2690fps - 9 shots total
57gr. H4831 = 2744fps - 9 shots total

About 1 MOA with these

I may have to get a pound of H1000 to check on accuracy and speed.

Anyway I didn't have to dig that circle of snow out again to get the chrono setup.

bigwhoop,

If you can get the accuracy you desire and about 2850fps in that 22" bbl. You'll have a very good 160 load.

FWIW, I have done much playing with the .280Rem, and this is JME. H4831 is very near an optimal burn rate for maximizing 150s and 154s. The slightly faster R-19 is near perfect for 139s and 140s as is VV-N160. Finally, R-22 has always given me the top end velocity with the 160s and 162s. VV-N165 is right there with R-22, and to boot it does well across the entire wt range. R-22 and VV-N165 give good results across the entire wt range...BUT they are loads at the very top end of pressure according to Quickload...averaging around 65Kpsi. I'm putting 62grs of R-22 behind 140s currently, and even putting mag primers under 61grs. Still it doesn't yeild the velocity that R-19 does with 140s. IME, you have to be very nit-picky, but you can find the perfect marriage of bullet wt and powder burn rate and SAFELY maximize the .280Rem.

The amount of snow on the ground there...is it really cold too? If its in the teens or lower, you can expect your velocity to jump 50-75fps if you shoot that same load in 70+ degree weather. No powder is immune to temp.

You're bumpin' about 50fps per grain...which is normal with these recipes. That should tell you that you might be able to get to 58.5 or MAYBE 59grs. 58.5 should put you around 2800+fps which is good and should be safe too.

If you're going to invest in another pound of powder for the .280...Id stongly suggest R-22, or VV-N165 (which comes in 2lb cans).

Keep us informed

.280,
Thanks for the dialogue. The .280 is something I always wanted to try but had so much hunting success with the .270 and '06 it was hard to "branch out".
Anyway, so if I want to optimize the 160 gr bullet you would go to R-22 OVER H1000?
SNOW? Yes we got nailed with the last two storms - I had 30" fall over 9 days.
I should get a pic of the chronograph sitting in the dugout snow.

I must qualify that I have shot little H1000. Many say it works well in the .280. R-22 seems to be the optimal powder in the 06 family of cases, atlest with those between 6.5 and .308. The velocity gain over H4831 will be nominal in a 22" bbl most likely. But you may reduce pressures some running the same speeds. JME, YMMV. H1000 OTH may not reach its full potential in the .280 case..IOW you may run out of room on the case before you reach acceptable velocity. If so it likely wont burn too efficiently. Again, its something to play with. If you have another big mag...go ahead and buy some H1000, but I wouldn't if the .280 were my sole purpose. R-22 will give you max safe attainable velocity almost for sure, but whether your gun will like it accuracy wise is another story.

And you didn't ask but I'll offer...IMO the .280 does its best work with 140s. Most any brand of bullet will work on deer and antelope, and well constructed 140 bullets are reputed to be adequate on elk sized game. All running 3000-3150 depending on load and bbl length...there's little more you could ask of a .280. Again, JMO, YMMV. You could do a lot worse than a 160 at 2800fps! A LOT worse! I just like to save 160s for my 7mmRM.

Good Luck!