Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Is Leupold slowly losing its foothold?

Well, when we poured the foundations for their complex, we were told that they eventually move ALL their optic to US production...I'll believe that when I see it.

Wtf is it with you Alaskans? Is it a pre requisite to be a fuucking azzhole? You stupid fuucks gotta act tough? Fuuck you Art....

From Vortex’s website:


“Nearly every component in the AMG, from the index-matched lenses to smallest screw, is engineered, machined, and assembled in the USA. The only component from outside the USA is the German manufactured reticle. If you're looking for a top-tier long-range precision riflescope, look no further than the Razor HD AMG.”

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/razor_hd_amg_riflescope

John

There was a time when you could not pretend to carry my jock... though the slobber was proof enough you wanted to.

You have exactly nothing in any category that makes your comment anything other than a jealous bitch comment.

Live with it.

You are clueless about what Vortex is actually doing and prove it every time you touch your key pad. Please show me the first incorrect comment I made. Please do not list Uncle Rico's incorrect comments because I do not have time for that moron.


Now, on your AK period thingy:
There is an old saying that I know did not start here, but I would like to think it did, that says "it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission."

We do not suffer fools well (that is where you come in) and if you stand up waving a flag of any particular flavor of stupidity we will pick up on it two, maybe three, nanoseconds after you hit the send key. For some reason, the truly idiotic (your second call to this thread) will jump right up with an even bigger flag because you realize your target audience of sycophants even dumber than you (hard to believe, but they are there) will be protesting your harsh treatment... and you will be crushed like a pre-teen girl's heart at an ice cream social.

But please, keep it up, I enjoy comedy!

Thank you Sir!

You have proven to have a command of the English language many have failed to grasp!

If I'm going to be carrying the rifle around, it gets a Trijicon Accupoint. Otherwise usually Nightforce. Leupold turns out over-priced scopes and tries to make up for it with dumb bells an whistles, like custom reticles that don't work if you change bullets.

It's not a "set and forget" world any more, and Leupold got left in the dust.

Your posts are proof enough of that statement.

Ten years ago I speculated that if Vortex were to spin up a reputation and then ride it to death and fade away then their lifetime warranty would be worthless (look at Zen-Ray). At that time I felt that it was a real possibility they would do exactly that because they had practically nothing in the way of facilities for production. If they are in fact going to move forward with all production in the USA, then it looks like they intend to stick around for the long haul. I'm still not ready for a Vortex product myself, but if things go the way they appear to be going I will be way more open to the possibility.

Vortex looks like they'll be the player to knock Leupold out if anyone does, but at this point I think Leupold holds their destiny in their own hands. If they fail, "it was nice knowing you." I have owned and still do own lots of Leupold products and don't want the lifetime warranty to become meaningless, but I'm not going to cheer for them just because they're Leupold.

That is all you have?

Ten years ago I speculated that if Vortex were to spin up a reputation and then ride it to death and fade away then their lifetime warranty would be worthless (look at Zen-Ray). At that time I felt that it was a real possibility they would do exactly that because they had practically nothing in the way of facilities for production. If they are in fact going to move forward with all production in the USA, then it looks like they intend to stick around for the long haul. I'm still not ready for a Vortex product myself, but if things go the way they appear to be going I will be way more open to the possibility.

Vortex looks like they'll be the player to knock Leupold out if anyone does, but at this point I think Leupold holds their destiny in their own hands. If they fail, "it was nice knowing you." I have owned and still do own lots of Leupold products and don't want the lifetime warranty to become meaningless, but I'm not going to cheer for them just because they're Leupold.[/quote]



I am not sure what you mean by knock out, but Vortex took a large chunk out of Leupold's market share while growing much faster than any other optics company ever has. Leupold is still number two, but a distant number two.

Didja ever get in a scrap and put some fool on the ground, and then have mercy and let him up only to get your own ass whooped good?

Adjust precisely per stated value...... (Not "wonky")
Hold zero and not drift..
RTZ for previously proven loads when doing range work with known dope from adjustments made.....
Good optic,s....

Not much to ask for a aiming device......

Got a older vx1 3-9x40 on a Kodiak. 45 pro mag ml for 6 yrs.
Have not had issues with it yet.
Only leupold I have left.
If it holds , it holds.
If it goes south, I will send it in and when it comes back it will get sold the next day for 100 dollars
And the money will be put towards a sightron or a swfa.

vortex is an interesting company. The basically gave out tons of free product to all the wanna be PRS ninjas. They did the same with all the gun tubers. They gave out hats and other swag to all the gun counter guys. They have single handily nearly put bushnell out of business. I went to cabelas yesterday, bushnell had 2 scopes in scope rack. both were the engage series. I just read an article saying the prime, nitro,and forge series are going to be china production. bushnell told me korea, the engage scopes I looked at also said korea on them. The fact is vortex stuff is junk for the most part. As a consumer they are not controlling their brand. So 5 years from now your optic that you bought will have terrible resale value. Vortex is all hype and marketing. They sell a lot of product simply because they have a LOT of product in stores. Vortex has some decent stuff, (japan built) but other than that they are simply a marketing company. They do have the AMG but that only comes in a very high power model and I think the scope is around 3 grand.

Vortex sells alot of cheap junk. Every sporting goods store around here carries them but it's all the bottom of the line Crossfire and Diamondback Chinese/Phillipine junk that they're selling and that's what makes up the bulk of Vortex's sales volume. None of those stores are carrying the high end USA or Japanese made scopes.

These reasons and the in house service is important to me.

I recently had to send in a Steiner binocular- they moved the service center from NJ to the Burris factory in Greeley, CO. This is the 3rd Steiner binocular I have owned, with 2 out of 3 failing me. I won't be back.

Conversely, I have 14 Leupold scopes mounted on various rifle and magnum handguns. One failure has presented itself. When I sent the scope in, I got excellent service and a quick turn around.

I am not a turret twister shooting 3 shot "ladder tests" to show my buddies on Facebook, so my demands are nicely met with Leupold. If they are slipping, its in not offering a gloss finish.

And you know this how?

Have you tried to get an AMG scope? When they first came out it took over a year on a waiting list. They are still hard to get. Many of their mid-price-range products are hard to get.

Frankly, you are dead wrong.

Yeah then where are they selling them all ? It sure isn't Basspro, Gander, Dick's, Herb Phillipsons or any of the smaller private gun shops in NY or Pa.. Nor is it to all the guys I know at my gun club or the clubs in neighboring towns. There are many of them who have Vortex scopes but NOT ONE has an AMG . Of course you are always right about everything and everyone else is always wrong. BULLSHYT ! Economy rifles out sell high end rifles by the truckloads. People ain't buying "Alpha" optics to put on their RAR's, Mossberg Patriots and Savage Axis rifles. Period.

Art -
Do you current own any Vortex product that you paid more than 50% of MSRP?

I can get them for 50% of MSRP.

A few of points:

-Leupold was slipping. They are working hard to right the ship and their new products are quite good and very competitive. I am quite impressed with VX-5HD, VX-6HD and Mark-5HD. They rested on their laurels for way too long and got their ass handed to them, primarily by Vortex among others. WIth riflescopes, they need to hash out their low/mid range offerings and they seem to be doing that with VX-Freedom being a consolidation of everything VX-2 and below. VX-3i was a mistake. LRP seems to be one as well. They really need to fuse VX-R and VX-3i into a single mid-range product line. Leupold made an investment into developing very good reticle illumination technology and they need to leverage that better. They also need a coherent binocular/spotter strategy. In general, if I was Leupold, I would re-label everything VX-Freedom into Redfield. Having VX-Freedom under the same name as VX-6HD is brand dilution (Vortex also has that problem).

-Vortex builds AMG 6-24x50 and UH-1 scopes in Wisconsin. I visited them earlier this month and saw it with my own eyes. They are running at full capacity on the AMGs and they are more or less keeping up with demand, but barely. Their new building does have a lot of space, and they fully intend to increase their manufacturing capacity. In general, they seem to be the best managed optics company out there right now and definitely the biggest. That having been said, Sig's entry into this world is a shot across the bow for Vortex, Leupold and everyone else. It is especially damaging to Leupold, since Sig lured a bunch of Leupold employees over. By the way, Sig is setting up a facility to build some scopes in the US as well.

-The way of the future seems to be outsourcing simpler designs to OEM and doing a fair bit of the higher end stuff in house. Asian OEMs have gotten much better in the last decade or two and if you have good control of QC, you can deliver very good product. First it was Japan, then Phillipines and now China is getting better. I am all of a sudden seeing decent mid-range scopes from China. Hawke Frontier 1-6x24, for example, compares very well to anything under $1k. Athlon Ares BTR is a decent precision scope on a budget. We'll see how they hold up and all, but build quality is clearly improving. Some people do QC on-site with OEMs and some do it in house. Vortex checks every Razor product they get from the OEMs and a good portion of the PSTs, though not all. Random checks for everything else.

ILya