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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Has anyone ever experienced the difference in accuracy between and good flash hole and a bad flash hole, or are fellas just talking out of their flash holes?
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
With regard to gaping flash holes, Larry’s original correspondence should have been received as a badge of honor. He’s fiercely loyal. If you’re one of his preferred products/producers, e.g. Barrett FC, SWFA SS, Alpha Brass, Burris Extreme Tactical Sig Rings, HH, XTRATUF, etc., he’ll boisterously tout your wares far and wide. I can’t imagine how many Super Sniper scopes and Kimber Montana’s he’s sold. If you make a product that competes with one of his darlings, he’ll measure you by that existing standard. Larry’s preferences aren’t stagnant. When convinced he’s been presented with a superior product, he will abandon gear that he’s vocally championed, i.e. Talley LW rings, the Kimber Montana, Leupold, etc., etc.....
Larry’s communication style is, as JS put it, his hook. It prioritizes authenticity, function, accuracy, and diligence over courtesy, convention, and fluff. It’s absolutely dependent on conflict and striving. Whatever his faults, he’s determined and intelligent.
I think most will agree, including Larry himself, that, if nothing else, he’s an unwavering and spirited master internet troll. His infamy encases a tempered soul like that of a teen starlet’s—forged in the pedophilic fires of Hollywood. You don’t want to roll in the mud with Larry and there’s really no need when Fred and Jud have already jumped on that grenade.
Not for nothing but, in this instance, an appropriate CS strategy might be to send frequent samplings of only your most defective and anomalous casings. Then sit back and wait for a response. I guarantee the value of those responses will more than outweigh a few handfuls of brass scrap and the price of postage.
Finally, you’d do well to reconsider how you’ve estimated your audience, particularly the audience you’ve not considered. Ha...that is as apt a description as any I have seen. 
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Has anyone ever experienced the difference in accuracy between and good flash hole and a bad flash hole, or are fellas just talking out of their flash holes? To be honest I do not recall ever getting any cases with wonky flash holes...and for the past twenty-odd years I have been mostly using Lapua and cutting the pockets and flash holes anyway, mainly for cleaning and to use a standard decapping pin. And the best one to answer this question would most likely be Stick, as I do not know of anyone else that gins around with stuff like he does.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
Has anyone ever experienced the difference in accuracy between and good flash hole and a bad flash hole, or are fellas just talking out of their flash holes? Read Steelhead’s post above. He cites. ![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.cc/ttgfjchfn/3779_A34_C-6_D95-4579-8_F06-46_CE8530_E77_D.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://s19.postimg.cc/z4vc42b83/5_AB67_F47-0200-48_F9-8_BFC-523_E6187_C0_DA.jpg)
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499 |
Derek,
Appreciate you taking the time and effort in reaching out to customers. Mistakes happen and your response has been well. I started and currently own a small family business, it’s tough and there are some people that aren’t looking for answers only problems like you said. Luckily the vast majority aren’t like that otherwise it wouldn’t be worth the effort. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over some of the responses, for some one mistake is unforgivable and entertaining any expectation of reasonable conversation isn’t what you should expect.
MM
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
Sure. We use a punch and backing die combination. The punch is a hardened piece of carbide the diameter the flash hole needs to be. For large rifle, .080". For our small rifle, .060". The backing stem, which is also carbide to hold its' edge, is inserted into the mouth of the casing and contacts the inside of the bottom of the casing. The casing is then driven, by the backing stem, onto an alignment guide which contains the carbide punch. The way we have improved the punching operation since Larry received his casings, is by designing a more accurate guide bushing, that the casing is pushed on to, so the flash hole is more centered in the primer pocket. Before the new upgrade, from time to time you could get a casing with a flash hole out of center by about .000" - .015". Since the improvement we are now about .000 - .004" If I'm reading this right the backing stem would have a hole in the middle to accommodate the punched out brass bit and the tip of the punch as it comes through. The improvement of the guide bushing allowing for better control of the hole location would then allow for a smaller diameter hole in the backing stem. This in turn would lead to a cleaner edged hole and less dishing of the bottom of the primer side of the primer pocket. Am I on track here? Correct. But, there is a ratio you need to follow during the punching operation. If you close the gap between the punch and the backing die too close, you will actually create a burr on the inside of the casing. If you take a look at Lapua casings, they tend to run the punch a little too close to the backing stem, as a lot of their casings have a slight burr on the inside. However, their flash holes appear from the outside to be very crisp. Not saying anything bad about Lapua or how they make their casings, it is just an observation I have made. When you punch any metal, there is a shear zone and a tear zone. When the punch first contact the metal, the punch cuts into the metal sharply. As the punch continues through the metal, pressure builds up. When the pressure the punch is creating by pushing and cutting the metal overcomes the strength of the remaining metal, the metal tears out. This tear out is what prevents a burr on the inside of the casing. Here is a link to a better explanation with pictures. Punching Diagram
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
Has anyone ever experienced the difference in accuracy between and good flash hole and a bad flash hole, or are fellas just talking out of their flash holes? Read Steelhead’s post above. He cites. Got it. I didn't realize I forgot about his post. Ya. I'm the one who created the website. I agree with everything it says about flash hole concentricity and crispness. That is why if someone finds an issue with any of the casings we produce, we are happy to replace them free of charge whether it is a flash hole, overall length, or any other dimension. To get into the nitty gritty of flash hole centered-ness. I haven't seen any studies on the effect of an out of center flash hole affecting accuracy. I'm not saying it can't, but I haven't seen any study. I don't want to give bad advice. I know that a partial flash hole, one where the punch was split in half, wouldn't provide proper ignition of the powder inside the casing. It is the same thought as having a big burr on the inside of the casing. If the flame from the primer doesn't reach the powder uniformly, you, in theory, could have a less than ideal powder burn. That would result in a drop in velocity of the bullet. That would, if you were shooting far enough out, cause you to hit low on your target. A flash hole slightly out of center, I'm not sure exactly what effect that would have on the powder burn. What we are talking about on the website is trying to eliminate as many variables as possible. Internal volume, flash hole centered-ness, primer pocket depth and tightness, etc... A few weeks ago I was shooting out at 1,000 yards. At that distance, the spin put on the bullet by the rifling in the barrel causes the bullet to drift to the right about 5 inches. That is if nothing else effects it like something to do with the bullet, powder, primer, or casing.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,230
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,230 |
In the meantime while we await capture...Feel free to mail me Larry’s 1000 rounds of replacement brass in 26 Nosler. I will keep it in trust for when Big Stick returns...You can PM me for my shipping information.
Thank you for your understanding.
Beaver10 😎
Listen here ya selfish son of a bïtch if free brass shows up i get half. After all 1000 rounds of Nosler Brass is likely enough to torch 17 barrels minimum
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
In the meantime while we await capture...Feel free to mail me Larry’s 1000 rounds of replacement brass in 26 Nosler. I will keep it in trust for when Big Stick returns...You can PM me for my shipping information.
Thank you for your understanding.
Beaver10 😎
Listen here ya selfish son of a bïtch if free brass shows up i get half. After all 1000 rounds of Nosler Brass is likely enough to torch 17 barrels minimum Haha. I haven't heard of someone threatening to fiery furnace someone. I'm keeping that one.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
In the meantime while we await capture...Feel free to mail me Larry’s 1000 rounds of replacement brass in 26 Nosler. I will keep it in trust for when Big Stick returns...You can PM me for my shipping information.
Thank you for your understanding.
Beaver10 😎
Listen here ya selfish son of a bïtch if free brass shows up i get half. After all 1000 rounds of Nosler Brass is likely enough to torch 17 barrels minimum Haha. I haven't heard of someone threatening to fiery furnace someone. I'm keeping that one. You’ve got a lot of catching up to do...
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,230
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,230 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 7 WSM....that'd sting.
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 I don't have any good news on that front. We have 4 new calibers coming out in the next 90 days, and none of them are the 28 Nosler. I think we will be tackling that one early in 2019. It is based off of the RUM family, and we don't make that family yet. But we are coming out with a new ELR cartridge, in conjunction with another company, and it should hit the market in a few months. It is really impressive.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 X2 on 28 Nosler brass. I think Nosler is dragging their feet because they can’t produce a 28 Nosler in house that doesn’t have a magazine box length limited to 3.425”...
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 7 WSM....that'd sting. I have designed our new tooling for the WSM family, and even made some sample parts, but it is also going to be coming out in early 2019. The good news is that once we come out with it, we will make sure it stays in stock, as best we can, so there isn't any shortage of it after we start building it. That is the same for the 28 Nosler when we come out with it.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 7 WSM....that'd sting. I have designed our new tooling for the WSM family, and even made some sample parts, but it is also going to be coming out in early 2019. The good news is that once we come out with it, we will make sure it stays in stock, as best we can, so there isn't any shortage of it after we start building it. That is the same for the 28 Nosler when we come out with it. Oops.....let me give you some background. BS/Boxer/Larry is the official spokesperson for all things 7 WSM. Just ask him. I've no dog in this fight. Welcome to the 'fire....
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 106 |
On a serious note DerekP, any plans to run any 28 Nosler Brass soon. It seems that shït is unobtabium right now and I bet you could sell a million piece run in 48 hours. If you run it and need a beta tester I will humbly offer my services......😁 7 WSM....that'd sting. I have designed our new tooling for the WSM family, and even made some sample parts, but it is also going to be coming out in early 2019. The good news is that once we come out with it, we will make sure it stays in stock, as best we can, so there isn't any shortage of it after we start building it. That is the same for the 28 Nosler when we come out with it. Oops.....let me give you some background. BS/Boxer/Larry is the official spokesperson for all things 7 WSM. Just ask him. I've no dog in this fight. Welcome to the 'fire.... Haha. I'm good then. No need to elaborate.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,012
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,012 |
Maybe Larry got a little buzzed, and went to work with his homemade flash hole uniformer. A roto zip bit chucked in the old Black @ Decker drill, and the trigger switch duct taped to full RPM.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Maybe Larry got a little buzzed, and went to work with his homemade flash hole uniformer. A roto zip bit chucked in the old Black @ Decker drill, and the trigger switch duct taped to full RPM. Say what you will about Stick mate, he does know what he is doing.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I've seen enough deflection to know where my money will never go.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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