|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 56
Campfire Greenhorn
|
OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 56 |
For some reason, the thread shows me as not logged in so I can't reply there. I just felt I had to say something about the subject.
First- the child. Child protective services can only do so much and usually it's not enough. They'll threaten to remove the child, the mother will go insane and Dear Old Dad will promise to clean up. When that fails, they'll threaten to remove the child, Mom will go insane and he'll go to rehab. When he relapses, and he will, the whole scenario will be repeated. Mean while, Dear Old Dad, who like all addicts considers himself not to be the problem but a victim of the oppressors who would deny him of his right to destroy all around him, will still be in the house with the child. Mom will rally to his defense and the daughter will suffer. I don't know the solution.
I came off heroin in 1971 and crawled out of a bottle of whiskey in 1975. I understand well the process of blaming every one and everything for my failures and know well how violent the addict can become when his life style is threatened. Damn everyone else.
Damn the addict, damn the supplier and damn the enablers. Those who have called for execution have the right attitude. Legalise the stuff,sell it pure and roll a garbage truck down the street every morning while the Herald cries "Bring out the dead!"
Sorry if I get emotional about this but I've seen, seen it and seen it again. Unless they want to kick (and most don't) they'll just destroy every one and everything in their path. Oh, and don't forget, they'll also invite anyone they can recuit to share their joy.
Kill 'em. Kill every last one of them.
'Lonzo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
WTF?? I'm sure your position may have been somewhat different in the 70's.
Why wouldn't the addict in the 21st century be entitled to the same oppurtunities as you seemed to benfit from.
The puritanical approach of some recovering addicts is disengenuous and remarkably pathetic.
Also Mr. Tubbs, I am happy for your success in overcoming your addiction. Now get to the killing friend!!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 439
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 439 |
congrats on your recovery
and altho the truths that you have spoken are harse it is the sentiment of many AND the addict will take you down with them.
Thank you for the brutal honesty
and it is the cycle that is depressing over and over and over it will play.
Stay tough and know that I am keeping you in my prayers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,544
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,544 |
My sister in law was married to an addict and life was not easy for her or her kids, that is for sure. I have heard that maturity ends at the time the addiction first begins. From what I have seen, I believe it.
"Doing right isn't always easy but it is always right."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 56
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 56 |
I cleaned up both times with out help because I wanted to. I realised the heroin was a killer and went cold turkey by myself. The whiskey- I was either going to dump it or watch my wonderful wife suffer until I lost her. Powerful motivater.
You're right. I'm down right cold on the subject. If I wanted to destroy my life, that was my business but I had no right to destroy her's. One day, instead of stopping to buy the quart I consummed daily, I drove past the liquer store. Never felt a need since.
Cold? Yeah. Those who poison and destroy all around should be destroyed. And yes, I include myself during that period.
'Lonzo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760 |
Alonzo,
Your logic is illogical. Kill them all, but not you? You are an addict. You see, your story, its not at all non typical. Your rock bottom was the fear of loss. There are more addicts like you than most realize. Everybody's perception of the addict is the street walking crack-whore or the local homeless wine-o. As I have related here, I have a close friend and a close family memeber who have suffered addiction. Both professionals with families and good jobs. Neither of them had to hit the "rock bottom" of complete loss before they considered themselves at rock bottom. The fear of the loss was motivation enough. I have sat in professional groups with them...professionals such as doctors, lawyers, nurses, pharmacist, etc...more of them than not had only to have a close call at work or a brush with the law to WANT to quit. Some just like you merely feared work or legal problems. Its a broad brush some of you paint with about addicts. VERY broad!
War Damn Eagle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,377
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,377 |
I'm trying to understand the position here, so let me know which of these is a correct summation.
1. I quit successfully, but no one else can or at least damn few of them can or will, so kill all of them before they have a chance to quit or not quit.
2. I quit and my life since 1975 has been ____ (good, bad, indifferent?) so I wish someone had killed me back in the early 70's; or, someone should have killed me in the early 70's so I never would have had the chance to quit or not quit. Also, kill all the current addicts.
3. Other?
Next question and this borders on .280Rem's post: How is an addict defined?
- Down and out, lost everything and living on the street stealing to survive.
- Working day jobs but not quite enough to support the meth habit, dealing meth to make up the rest.
- 40ish female holding down her job as a pharmacist but taking two oxycontins every night.
- Army sergeant, E6 or E7, performing his duties as supply sergeant or working in S3 and doing a good job of it, but every night knocking back the drinks at the the service club to try to erase certain memories and staggering back to the barracks. (I knew this guy.)
Which ones do we kill?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760 |
Jim,
You hit the nail on the head buddy.
Also, the definition of "Addict" is very clear cut. What is not clear cut, or true across the board is how it affects them or the people around them. And each drug is different. There are scads of addicts out there, especially those addicted to pain meds, that lead perfectly normal lives with little or no ill effects and they even get their drugs "legally" through prescriptions.
Moreover, I honestly believe almost every person has some type of addiction to something, not always drugs or alcahol, but something...its just that some addictions are less dangerous or upsetting, and some are just plain acceptable, or more acceptable. Most people don't call smokers addicts, but thats exactly what they are.
War Damn Eagle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
Mr Tubbs; Thank you for an interesting perspective that includes firsthand experience. Those who disagree with you show that there is a middle ground to be reached, and that everyone has some details to contribute to a solution. Myself, I'm with you to a great degree because I think that those who commit such grievous crimes--morally, socially or legally---against others should be eliminated. Don't need them. As in my statement in the original thread, I stand unconvinced that the best cure for the problem is to let it try to improve itself, or to feed it money and sympathy. Congratulations on escaping your addictions and continued best wishes to you, but if I had known you then, I'd feel differently about how you should have been treated...which is what I think you are saying, too.
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760 |
Bulletbutt,
This line of thinking like yours and Alonzo's is not logical. Kill all addicts! Unless their addicts in recovery. "I like you now that your not in active addiction and I support killing all that are in active addiction before they get to be addicts in recovery." By definition Alonzo is still and addict. Seeing that he came out of it without the ruin of himself and all around him, and the fact that I have seen the same thing too...is that not evidence that your theory is flawed? "Eliminate" theives? Or just addicts? Death penalty for addiction? But what if they commit no crime? YES its not uncommon! What about the addict addicted to pain meds prescribed by a doctor for real pain? You don't care how they got there, they're addicts now so eliminate them?
War Damn Eagle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760 |
For some reason, the thread shows me as not logged in so I can't reply there. I just felt I had to say something about the subject.
First- the child. Child protective services can only do so much and usually it's not enough. They'll threaten to remove the child, the mother will go insane and Dear Old Dad will promise to clean up. When that fails, they'll threaten to remove the child, Mom will go insane and he'll go to rehab. When he relapses, and he will, the whole scenario will be repeated. Mean while, Dear Old Dad, who like all addicts considers himself not to be the problem but a victim of the oppressors who would deny him of his right to destroy all around him, will still be in the house with the child. Mom will rally to his defense and the daughter will suffer. I don't know the solution.
I came off heroin in 1971 and crawled out of a bottle of whiskey in 1975. I understand well the process of blaming every one and everything for my failures and know well how violent the addict can become when his life style is threatened. Damn everyone else.
Damn the addict, damn the supplier and damn the enablers. Those who have called for execution have the right attitude. Legalise the stuff,sell it pure and roll a garbage truck down the street every morning while the Herald cries "Bring out the dead!"
Sorry if I get emotional about this but I've seen, seen it and seen it again. Unless they want to kick (and most don't) they'll just destroy every one and everything in their path. Oh, and don't forget, they'll also invite anyone they can recuit to share their joy.
Kill 'em. Kill every last one of them.
'Lonzo The above statements are a good indication of how badly drugs can affect your thinking and judgement!
War Damn Eagle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
I didn't say kill ALL addicts. You added that word, and it changes what I'm trying to say by including anyone that you may technically classify as an addict, as opposed to those I would classify as an addict, (and that I think we'd be better off without). I don't care about Webster's dictionary definition, and I don't care about what Dear Abby would say; I am talking about the type of people that I think this thread is about. Sorry if I am vague; I'm just trying to stay within the lines of what I think is the premise of this.
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,527
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,527 |
Eliminating addicts is no answer. Mr Tubbs,, you are still an addict, you just haven't allowed yourself to go back. Good for you and I am glad you pulled out. But, if you are still addicted, even though not using, do we kill you,, just in case?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
With that kind of logic should we just kill everyone, because they MIGHT become an addict?
What I'M saying that works for MY sense of values, is that people who are on drugs so devotedly (new word)that they impose excessively (in my opinion)on other people, had better watch out when I'M put in charge (joke). So, if you don't like my ideas, don't vote for me when I run for the office of God (joke); but I'm neither going to change my opinion on this (nor do I expect you to change yours) based on what I've learned about people being held responsible for their actions.
I realize I would be harder on these people than alot of others would.
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760 |
Ok, I'll bite. We're living in your world now. Whats an addict in your world, and which ones do we eliminate?
War Damn Eagle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
There's just something patently hypocritical about one addict wishing the death of another. Oh,that's right; Mr Tubb's overcame his addiction so he's now qualified address the plight of those suffering and how to correct it!! Does 24 years of recovery make you any better than the man with 24 hours? If you're in the rooms Mr Tubb's, isn't there something about a 12th step that you seem to have forgotten? Or, in your life, is that step only applicable to those already in the rooms? Or, worse yet, are you what they consider the "dry-drunk"?
See, sometimes in the world of addiction you can't win for losing. Your automatically a liar until you walk the walk. F**k that noise. Your winning Mr Tubbs and you have my sincere pat on the back. Don't turn your back on the sufferers. Only the addict seems capable of talking down on someone while his own face was in the gutter!
Last edited by isaac; 03/13/07.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,272
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,272 |
Where and when is the pain, heartache and suffering caused by the addict addressed? Lots of, "Let's save all the poor addicts, because everyone is an addict," never takes into account the often horrific consequences because of the addicts actions.
Lots of support for the abusers, yet not a single voice for the abused.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
Actually, there's a pretty good indication that there are (Webster's definition of)addicts, and there are some within that definition that are worse than others...just read the public records. My thought is; as a society with as many people in it as we have, that are causing serious problems for others that don't cause problems, we can legalize the elimination of the worst offenders...using the standards we allready have to define "worst"...and I will feel that we haven't lost anything worth saving. Don't need them. As I understand it, other countries have the death penalty for drug dealers. As I understand it, that is a deterent which keeps alot of people from ever dealing drugs for the first time and isn't that what we want? I apologize, but I have to leave for a while and go to an appointment. I am looking forward to continuing my education in this matter by association with those that I disagre with, when I return. Thank you for the opportunity to show you where you are wrong, and I am right... 
Last edited by Bulletbutt; 03/13/07.
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206 |
First let me say that when I read the initial post here, I was lost? Didn't understand at all and felt like I joined in about halfway through an ongoing discussion.
For background let me say, I am 62 years old. I have never been drunk and I have never taken any illegal drugs. So I know it can be done.
Many times when asked to have compassion on drunken drivers or those who prefer to spend their time whacked out on drugs, my first thoughts are for the VICTIMS of such people. I often wonder how many worthwhile lives we must allow to be destroyed in the effort to save the damaged and disorderly?
How many have to be maimed or die at the hands of drunk drivers while we worry ourselves over the poor drunk who has killed and maimed others? How many people must endure the violence associated with forceably taking money or possessions to pay for
illegal drugs?
I find our american culture has somehow become askew and lacking in justice in these cases. The reason for this, I believe, is that too many friends and relatives of the GUILTY want another chance for their loved ones which tends to bend justice inappropriately.
Be drunk or whacked out on crap and maim or kill one of mine,
rest assured that no matter what a [bleep] up PC society decides,
I'll spend every nickle I have to make you pay in a like manner!
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!
And I do have compassion. I will pray for you and forgive you, and then I'll see to it that you die quickly!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,737
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,737 |
For some reason, the thread shows me as not logged in so I can't reply there. I just felt I had to say something about the subject.
First- the child. Child protective services can only do so much and usually it's not enough. They'll threaten to remove the child, the mother will go insane and Dear Old Dad will promise to clean up. When that fails, they'll threaten to remove the child, Mom will go insane and he'll go to rehab. When he relapses, and he will, the whole scenario will be repeated. Mean while, Dear Old Dad, who like all addicts considers himself not to be the problem but a victim of the oppressors who would deny him of his right to destroy all around him, will still be in the house with the child. Mom will rally to his defense and the daughter will suffer. I don't know the solution.
I came off heroin in 1971 and crawled out of a bottle of whiskey in 1975. I understand well the process of blaming every one and everything for my failures and know well how violent the addict can become when his life style is threatened. Damn everyone else.
Damn the addict, damn the supplier and damn the enablers. Those who have called for execution have the right attitude. Legalise the stuff,sell it pure and roll a garbage truck down the street every morning while the Herald cries "Bring out the dead!"
Sorry if I get emotional about this but I've seen, seen it and seen it again. Unless they want to kick (and most don't) they'll just destroy every one and everything in their path. Oh, and don't forget, they'll also invite anyone they can recuit to share their joy.
Kill 'em. Kill every last one of them.
'Lonzo Mr. Tubbs I'm the resident Mr. Harshness when it comes to drunks and addicts. I don't think it's advisable to kill the addicts as it would be wasting a clear eyed, clean living individual's life. However I would not stand in thier way to prevent them from destroying themselves with their addiction. You are to be congratulated for your strength of character in kicking two of the most addictive chemicals loose in our society. Hopefully you can and will share your experience with others to give them an example of what is possible. Jim
"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
555 members (06hunter59, 1_deuce, 219 Wasp, 12344mag, 222Sako, 1minute, 70 invisible),
2,634
guests, and
1,333
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,564
Posts18,473,207
Members73,940
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
