Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Arizona Boys HELP needed

Nothing against you personally funshooter because I respect your contributions here but the situation sounds like exactly what happens when a bunch of out of state Californians buy “ranchettes” and then raise holy hell when guys like the rancher go about things just like they’ve been doing for generations. If it’s definitely not your property then I it’s definitely not your problem.

I’m sure that the appropriate agency will find out if he’s done something wrong and he’ll deal with it but it’s none of the other “ranchette” owners business.imho

ETA....if he lets good wood lie for a season or 2 then you should invest in a mill and a splitter. 😉

Had some Ranchet owners do just that and the State came in and told them they could not take any trees dead or alive off of State Trust Land with out a permit.
They tried to get a permit and they were told no.

We have a guy coming up on private property's and steeling standing trees , Taking it to Kingman and selling it as firewood.
He has been forcibly removed by the Sheriff several times and they still catch him from time to time and he does not live in the area 2 Sheriffs for 100 sq miles is what we have been told. Not much they can do.

If we knew why the cut with no harvest. We may not agree with it but we would have some answers
The State stepped in 4 years ago and stopped him and told him to clean it up.

He did not and is at it again.

How much destruction he will do this time around before he is stopped is anyone's guess

The Fire Marshal today on the phone use to work our area and did not sound like he liked the guy at all.

He said If they can prove that he does not have the proper paperwork to do what he is doing and does not follow the Land Treatment Application to a tee.

They can Revoke his Grazing Rights.

Again how many sq miles will be destroyed before they find out. if it is legit or not.

And afterwords how many acres and miles will possibly burn due to his destruction.

Most of the Ranchet owners just want him to clean it up as he go's

He tells them to F OFF

I'd not be surprised if his cattle had some low survival rates in the near future. Happens more than you think.

That’s how every single cedar clearing here and in NM is done. Yank it our or snip it, let the pile collapse out. Beats having a ton of new doublexrut defacto logging roads created during the haulout. You can still find the old cables and anchor chains from when it was done old school with rome plows back in the day. I will add that a lot of projects with cost sharing are entered into between the land department and surface lessees. Most are for range improvement, and cedar clearing is the most popular of those. Welcome to AZ!

If he was hauling it out after they dried out a bit and used the trees for harvest (firewood or lumber) we would understand.

He does not they cut 4 years ago and were told to stop and clean it up.

Every tree cut 4 years ago acres and acres 50 60 maybe 70 or more trees still laying there to rot

no harvest at all

Just do not understand creating a fire hazard and not making a dime off of it.

To be sure: are these the shrubby looking junipers that are being cleared and not pine like ponderosa? If so, most of it is worthless slash

I told my friend up there today there is more to this we have not been told.

I said maybe the Rancher has an agreement with the State to clear the trees once they are gone maybe he gets a kick back on the development.

Don't know just speculation on my part.

Something is very wrong on cutting Acres and even Miles of trees to let them lay and rot.

We are asking for our questions to be answered and to have the fire hazard cleaned up.

That's it

I guess that is to much for the higher up and for others just to call us Liberals because we do not want our property's burnt out.

They are what I think is Aromatic ceders
Do not know for sure but man do they smell good when you cut them even the ones that have been dead for many many years all dried out and almost crumbling cut them and burn them smells good.

They cut it up and take it to Kingman to sale as firewood so there is some money to be made
My friend says they get $500 an acre.

I have several neighbors that when they clear for building they take it to Kingman and sale it.
So there is a value maybe small but it is there.

But these just lay and rot the Rancher makes no attempt of cleaning the up at all.

Makes no sense to anyone up there

At least around here you aren’t going to get grass to grow for grazing until you get the cedar cut. Even at $500 an acre I doubt hauling them for firewood or post is economical unless you value labor at free. If he’s got a crew doing it the labor costs would make hauling it for sale to be throwing good money after bad

No grass growing where they cut 4 years ago nothing at all

No water no grass we do get Monsoon rains in the summer but not much at all for the past 6 years or so.

The area seems to be getting drier and drier every year

Even the Ranchets with wells on them do not grow much on them
Small personal gardens at most dirt is pretty much dead and will not sustain much of anything but Cedars and Scrub oak very few Pinion pines in the area but there are some people up there cherish them because they are far and few of them.

It also does not make sense to us up there that after the trees are cut and dead. The State will not allow anyone to pull a permit to clean it up for the Fire Hazard

They can come in a steal it but Just do not get caught. But no permit to do it legal strange bureaucracies.

there is a place not that far really from where you are at called camp wood. for an obvious reason. when ft whipple was at the original location at delrio springs, just north of chino, the cavalry guys were cutting wood at camp wood. My wife's uncle bob was employed by i think the wpa during the depression to cut that stuff during the depression. It is typically dry but over time the cleared areas do regain vegetation. As to the rancher, at least some of them, it was easy to figure out to subdivide some of the land and sell those ranchettes for so much down, and carry the contract. When the out of state purchaser figured it out about hauling water, the knee deep mud in the winter, yada, yada, they would default he would forclose and sell again. lot easier than pushing some stinking cows around. I am not sure who the rancher is, but the guy who was managing the old boquilla's sheep ranch, now owned by the navajo, wasn't particularly well recieved by some.
In the dark ages I use to patrol that area from time to time on the yavapai side. The fire danger is real, more so from those thickly packed trees
I know i got in that area one time on foot, a blizzard started up, this before gps and i had a heck of a time finding my truck. I think you just need to find the right person to get answers at the arizona state land department.
as far as the cattle from the rancher running all over, a member of my family owns some land up just south of the grand canyon, and same situation. You have to fence to keep them out, it's in the purchase contracts. Things change i am sure, but long time ago people didn't always bother to get permits to cut wood particularly in the outlying areas where they knew gooberment wasn't gonna be around. I think at the time a permit would get you about six cords, and i don't remember paying for a permit, not once was i ever checked hauling wood out.

in some of those areas where they have knocked over the trees, it's a great place for bunnies making a home in the downed trees. I have done a lot of cottontail hunting that way.

It's been a few decades since I lived down there, so I'm not up on current procedures, but when I was in high school a friend from a ranching family was griping about how they could not sell the cedars for firewood that they were clearing. The permit was for clearing only, and did not allow commercial sale.

At that time, '70s and early '80s, public was free to take the downed, dried trees for personal use, but could not sell it, or cut live trees. Areas where they had been cut or uprooted eventually grew into pretty good range, but could take years, sometimes over a decade, depending on rainfall. You said you have had six very dry years, that goes far to explain why there's not been much grass growth where he cut four years ago, especially if it's allowed to re-seed naturally instead of the rancher being required to seed it. Ron is right, it makes great cottontail hunting area, and quite a few mourning doves nest there, too. He's also right about the live trees being a fire danger, probably more than the dried out ones, if they are very thick.

Those "cedars", mainly Utah Juniper also commonly called shaggy-bark, do use a lot of water, and not only shade but also the shed foliage hinders grass regrowth. When the first settlers came into that area those trees were not nearly so common, but they proliferated in areas that were overgrazed. The Big Chino wash used to have enough year-around flow that the early beaver trappers found it worthwhile to trap it.

I personally am not against the cut.
I am worried about how thick the dead stuff is right now from 4 years ago and how thick the new stuff is getting creating a Gigantic Roman candle situation that once started will never stop. In areas you can not walk threw the stuff and with new stuff it will be even worst. If you can not walk threw it how can Cattle get threw is them selves.
Serious clean up needs to be done before a everything ignites

Not many Cotton Tails up there lots of Jacks and since I purchased their #s have dwindled almost to nothing. I think the water has a lot to do with it.

I use to race the Jacks with my Quad side by side there were so many. Now your hardly see any at all.

The Deer and Elk are getting harder to see as well not much up there for them but hiding spots

Pigs are a problem and there is an open season on them Javelins you need a permit.

I know a lot of areas that have a cedar tree problem and are being cleared as much has possible. A huge waste of ground water and grass if they are left to spread on their own.

we always called it shaggybark juniper. I burned a lot of it for years due to jimmy carter. at the time our house was built in prescott there was a moritorium on new gas hookups, so we had to go all electric. Couldn't afford it so it was the juniper in the fireplace to heat with, and sometimes cook with. As to the beaver, the az game and fish years ago got control of a ranch near paulden where the verde river starts. At one time there was still beaver in it, when i was a kid. the K4 ranch was bought by the tricity group, prescott, prescott valley and i think chino, and they have put in a giant sucking straw.

Ya they have been left to grow for over 100 years and I can see some thinning really needs to be done
But cutting and leaving them to start fire is another issue with me

Everyone gives Prayers for our members on the Fire When these fires get rolling

Why do we all need to just let people create the condition for then to really take off in the first place.

Flagstaff burned a couple years ago Real bad Cali. is on fire right now all over the place. Washington is going up in flames.

And I am witnessing a disaster in the making in my own area and I can not do anything to help stop it it seems.

I guess I just need to take the Hint and Shut my Mouth let it happen because I live in a Liberal State so that makes me a out and out Liberal due to association.

Sorry for my rant It just is getting frustrating knowing what is going to happen in a few years and we have no way of slowing the inevitable down.

I have been bitching for most of my adult life on land policies and the forest state lands in central arizona. I have pictures of family in the late 1800's around flagstaff, big trees, lots of meadows.
there are areas on bill williams mt that you cant hardly walk through it's so thick now. The forest service lady around willaims let a "controlled burn" on a real windy day a few years ago, started a pretty good forest fire.
At one time logging was allowing, and there were mills in williams. A lot of scrap wood would be piled up in the summer, to burn when the snows came. That stopped for a lot of years. Then the bark beetle came in weakening or killing the trees. There is a road over the top of the bradshaw mountains north from phoenix to prescott. Use to be like driving through a tunnel. Beetles killed a lot of trees, so did drought, and too many trees competing. The fires came and it looks like the surface of the moon.
I have thought the same for a long time in the area you are concerned about. Just a matter of time, I think.
A lot of the forest around prescott is now gone, due to fires.

i was talking to a friend of mine up north today on this thread. His comment was the guy should be prosecuted if he doesn't have written permission from the state to cut on state trust lands.