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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,628
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
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Because of Dave Ramsey, every vehicle I own is 15-20 years old. "I'm not against people having new cars. I'm against them having you. We spend a tremendous amount impressing somebody at the stoplight who we'll never meet. It makes you broke and keeps you broke!" - Dave Ramsey Dave is a car guy. Owns vacation homes, and toys . Just says to make your income is high enough to afford toys that go down in value
Again I am not saying people have not gotten rich borrowing. It comes down to how much risk you want to take.
It is like I tell the liberals when they ask why I carry a gun. I tell them I am not willing to take .000001% on my family getting raped and killed, but if you are, that is up to you. All toys don’t go down in value. My Winchester/ Colt collection has done almost as good as my old Porsche collection. Striking while the iron is hot has made me financially independent.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Even when I had a mortgage, I could never beat the standard deduction....never have figured out how it was such a benefit to have one? Maybe needed a much bigger house and payment for it to help?
My situation exactly
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,414 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,414 Likes: 6 |
I saw lesbian Suzie Orman yelling into my TV screen, "WHEN YOU GET DIVORCED, YOU TAKE HIM FOR EVERY CENT YOU CAN GET!!!"
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
What is your money doing for you sitting in the bank? Dont answer me, think about it. Research your options. Seriously take the time to look at every angle. Talk to a financial advisor. Hell, theres a few on this board. If you still come to the conclusion that your money is better off in the bank or under your mattress, well...good luck with that. Money in the bank for me = An emergency fund (as recommended by Dave,) and enough cash for discretionary spending. I keep some in a safe deposit box as well for my wife's security blanket/in case the banks fail.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
I don't hate Dave Ramsey but I do think his smugness and air of superiority works against him. Its like being debt free is a cult or something. Debt financing is something I've used to my advantage repeatedly in my life and so have millions of others. To hear him talk about it, you'd think we were engaged in devil worship or human sacrifice. BKinSD . . . just my opinion . . . but your post comes off as a bit smug. 
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,770 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Jul 2015
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He's right about debt, but he has absolutely no vision when it comes to the proper uses of insurance & annuities. He's just dumb that way.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,149 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,149 Likes: 3 |
He's right about debt, but he has absolutely no vision when it comes to the proper uses of insurance & annuities. He's just dumb that way. The only people I've heard touting annuities and whole life insurance policies are getting commissions for selling them. Go ahead and give us your best sales pitch.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,785 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,785 Likes: 3 |
Not true. They are tools in my tool box as well and they're wonderful where they fit. Just not for everyone.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
Ill not say another word about your God. I will say this though, and ive said some in other threads. I come from a huge family. My grandpa was rich beyond what most would imagine. He never worked for anyone else but himself. And out of 17 siblings, everyone except one did the same. After the depression they all set out to make their fortunes. After the war, the boys all started where they left off. Making money.....with other peoples money. Eventually they all had the opportunity to use their own money, but they didnt. The risk wasnt using other peoples money, but their own. Again, they were all essentially debt free, but chose to acquire debt to become even greater.
An extremely successful business, that other business rely on, 15 farms(eventually 17 before his death), all on anothers dime. Passed down(unfortunately not to me) to the next generation who are keeping his ways alive and all not a care in the world, financially.
A lot of you seem to be the product of todays society and education system. Never learning how to make it on your own. Leveraging good debt can make your wildest dreams come true. It did Dave Ramseys. Though youd rather believe he made it on his own cash, zero debt. Foolish. Extremely foolish. FWIW, I've not listened to DR a single time, nor read a single one of his books - but happily debt free. I'm beginning to think you and blackheart were separated at birth.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
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Joined: Dec 2010
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i have followed dave ramseys advice for 25 years and my kids are doing it now and we are all debt free. its common sense that is lacking in this world and should be taught in all schools. So teachers are responsible for teaching finances to kids ? most baby boomer parents are so fuggen in hock that they can't comprehend what dave is saying and will be destitute in their later years unless mom and dad leave them a pile of cash. i'd rather have the schools teaching this type of thing than half the horschit they do now. i don't agree with everything he says, such as: no credit card - always have a CC, just don't use it unless absolutely necessary and then pay it off asap invest only in growth stock mutual funds - this is highly dependent on your place in life. good advise for someone with 20-30 years until retirement but not good for someone in their late 50's. what i do agree with: go into debt only for a primary residence. debt for rentals is asking for bankruptcy unless you really know what you're doing and are lucky. ask all the wanna be real estate tycoons who lost their ass in 2008. 3-6 months expenses in nonvolative investments. i like a years worth, but i grew up with depression-era parents so i am paranoid. pay off debt smallest to largest. good psychologic method even if the math doesn't always add up following his advice with my minor adjustments has set me and my family up quite comfortably. i know people who made more than me and are living paycheck to paycheck while living in a big expensive house, driving fancy cars, eating out all the time and going to fuggen hawaii on vacations. they will be fugged when they retire and i will be able to continue to live a nice comfortable life and leave my kids not only a legacy in money, but financial knowledge.
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: Dec 2010
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He's right about debt, but he has absolutely no vision when it comes to the proper uses of insurance & annuities. He's just dumb that way. insurance is not an investment. period, end of story. the only people who make money on that are the schitheads who sell it. look at the real ROI for those vehicles and then compare them to a good portfolio of mutual funds and real estate. no comparison.
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Not true. They are tools in my tool box as well and they're wonderful where they fit. Just not for everyone. Very true with low cost ones like Vanguard offers and others like Fidelity and T Rowe Price have. Very worthwhile consideration once a person has maxed out on the tax deferred instruments, IRA, 401k and others.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Ill not say another word about your God. I will say this though, and ive said some in other threads. I come from a huge family. My grandpa was rich beyond what most would imagine. He never worked for anyone else but himself. And out of 17 siblings, everyone except one did the same. After the depression they all set out to make their fortunes. After the war, the boys all started where they left off. Making money.....with other peoples money. Eventually they all had the opportunity to use their own money, but they didnt. The risk wasnt using other peoples money, but their own. Again, they were all essentially debt free, but chose to acquire debt to become even greater.
An extremely successful business, that other business rely on, 15 farms(eventually 17 before his death), all on anothers dime. Passed down(unfortunately not to me) to the next generation who are keeping his ways alive and all not a care in the world, financially.
A lot of you seem to be the product of todays society and education system. Never learning how to make it on your own. Leveraging good debt can make your wildest dreams come true. It did Dave Ramseys. Though youd rather believe he made it on his own cash, zero debt. Foolish. Extremely foolish. Pahick, from the above it appears you came from quite a privileged background, such riches and all. Your musings would be much more readable and appreciated did you stop lacing your breakfast cereal with C-4. You ain’t impressing too many here. Now,,,if and with all of the numerous ‘suckings’ you’ve included in this thread means that’s how you got yours, well hell, Bravo. Leverage, indeed.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,408 Likes: 2
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,408 Likes: 2 |
He's right about debt, but he has absolutely no vision when it comes to the proper uses of insurance & annuities. He's just dumb that way. insurance is not an investment. period, end of story. the only people who make money on that are the schitheads who sell it. look at the real ROI for those vehicles and then compare them to a good portfolio of mutual funds and real estate. no comparison. I always maintained enough injury/ life insurance to be sure that my kids would be able to complete college if they chose to and that my wife would be secure in the event of my demise or catastrophic health issue. It was unpleasant to write those checks but it made more sense than making boat or credit card payments. When my LIQUID assets exceeded my needs for the future I quit paying for insurance. Life is not static and circumstances change and should be anticipated and planned for. mike r
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Jul 2017
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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If you don't like being debt free you can always go back in debt.
I do have credit cards. I like not having to carry lots cash or balance checkbook 100 times. Granted I keep enough in it, I don't have to keep track.
I do think he is right, when you pay with cash, you think about more. Maybe if just took out massive piles of cash I wouldn't think about spending. But when I take out a few hundred at time, I think about it more. Not saying I don't spend it still.
Not saying fortune doesn't favor the bold. Just saying it is a lot of risk if you have a famly. I also think you can still get wealthy without as much debt. Save up and gamble that money.
But a paid of home is secruity.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
He's right about debt, but he has absolutely no vision when it comes to the proper uses of insurance & annuities. He's just dumb that way. insurance is not an investment. period, end of story. the only people who make money on that are the schitheads who sell it. look at the real ROI for those vehicles and then compare them to a good portfolio of mutual funds and real estate. no comparison. Insurance can and does have a potentially very important place in Estate planning as in tax free transfers to heirs after death. As far as the ROI you mention, there are low cost Variable Annuities. Mine has returned handsomely. From all that’s been said on this good thread, there’s many ways to skin the cat pending personal situations. But, overall, Ramsey is correct, debt is bad.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
It takes money to make money...
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
It takes money to make money... Also takes hard work and no debt to have money to make money.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,890 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,890 Likes: 5 |
It takes money to make money... No, it really doesn't. There are lots and lots of ways to make a buck. People will pay over $100 per hour to have you clean their gutters. Ladies making that much organizing closets for people. Now, money is handy if you want to make money without working....
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
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It takes money to make money... Doesnt have to be yours
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