|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,032
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,032 |
For the 308 the loss is typically closer to 25 fps per inch. that what she said
Uber Demanding Rifle Aficionado
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12 |
Split the difference and go 20". That's what my 308 is and it works just fine..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 975
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 975 |
My Remington 660 carbine wears a 20 inch barrel. I had a smith glass bed the barrel channel and lighten the trigger a little. Otherwise, everything is same as the day I bought it. Accuracy and deadly power is quite impressive. This South Dakota muley was taken at approx 225 yards or so. I would not want a longer barrel than 20 inches. Sherwood
FIRE UP THE GRILL - is NOT catch and release!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 17
Campfire Savant
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,770 Likes: 17 |
Both of my 307’s are 20” barrels. Not too bad to shoot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 665
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 665 |
For Colorado hunting in your place I would get the 22" because you guys out there don't climb trees for you deer and elk hunting. We do that here in the Midwest and the 24" on my 7mm RM hit every limb and got hung up with it on a sling over my shoulder pointed up or down. The 18.5" barrel on my .308 was way handier for tree climbing and bullet velocity was never a consideration. That 7mm RM still has that 24", but when I built up a custom 7mm-08 it has a 20" for these parts. I'm more of an in tents hunter these days and a 22" like on my .300 Savage works just fine. This is my exact reason for getting my 20" built. My browning 7 mag is 24, with boss it's 27. It will hit every limb, and tower stand window known. I have now taken the boss system off and had a custom matching thread protector so it's 24". The .308 on the other hand I wanted it shorter than 24". The little velocity lost by 4" wasn't anything to me. I did however go with a #4 magnum shilen contour so it could be threaded to 5/8×24 with no ill effects or adapters. The gun is not a boat anchor nor is it a mountain rifle. It's a little heaver than my son's 24" .308 sporter. When mounted with my SB 2.5-10x56 Klassik (which is a larger optoc) the rifle combo is very well balanced. As for noise, you would need a decibel meter to tell the difference in my 20" and my sons 24". Both Rem 700's. So as far as being "louder" I'm sure it is, but I can't tell the difference.
Last edited by SDupontJr; 12/01/18.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Bought a Ruger Scout with 16.1" barrel with the intent to get a suppressor, which hasn't happened yet. Love the way it handles but it is not a rig I'd get for a loaner. Velocity loss is about 170fps compared to a 22" barrel, Remington 150g loads.
This is my 4th .308. If I get another it will be a standard 22" barrel as the other I currently have is 18" (AR10).
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,946 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,946 Likes: 5 |
For the 308 the loss is typically closer to 25 fps per inch. elocity loss is about 170fps compared to a 22" barrel, Remington 150g loads. These statements need to be put into perspective. Individual rifles even with the same barrel length can yield VERY different MV. I've seen as much as 130 fps difference from 2 different rifles with the same length barrel shooting ammo from the same box. I've seen a 20" rifle shoot faster than another 22" rifle and match a 24" rifle. Somewhere between 25-50 fps from the same barrel length is common. It might be accurate to say that rifle "A" shoots the same loads 170 fps slower than rifle "B", but not all of that 170 fps can be attributed to the shorter barrel. The 25fps/inch number is thrown around on the internet a lot, but I've never seen any documentation to support it, even with magnum cartridges. In fact with 308 class cartridges 10-15 fps/inch seems more accurate. There have been lots of tests done where a longish barrel was tested for velocity and velocity measured again as it is cut shorter. Using the same barrel is the only way to get meaningful numbers. With a barrel 20" or longer velocity loss with ANY center fire rifle cartridge is a lot less than we've been told. Especially with anything over 24". Once you get below 20" velocity does drop off at a greater rate. My 18" 308 doesn't give up much at all to my 22" 308's but that may just be the individual rifle. I've never worked with a 16" rifle, but wouldn't be surprised to see a bigger difference at that length. But with a 308 a 20" barrel isn't a bad place to be.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,621
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,621 |
My son killed his first elk at 10 years old with a 16" 308 at 450 yards... that rifle was a tack driver and had killed many critters... let a friend borrow it and he stuck his suppressor on it... after it was all said and done my barrel was no longer 16" and I didn't want to SBR it... if you're going to go short don't go shorter then 18"... that way if you need it rethreaded it's no problem...
Public landowner...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,113 Likes: 12 |
For the 308 the loss is typically closer to 25 fps per inch. elocity loss is about 170fps compared to a 22" barrel, Remington 150g loads. These statements need to be put into perspective. Individual rifles even with the same barrel length can yield VERY different MV. I've seen as much as 130 fps difference from 2 different rifles with the same length barrel shooting ammo from the same box. I've seen a 20" rifle shoot faster than another 22" rifle and match a 24" rifle. Somewhere between 25-50 fps from the same barrel length is common. It might be accurate to say that rifle "A" shoots the same loads 170 fps slower than rifle "B", but not all of that 170 fps can be attributed to the shorter barrel. The 25fps/inch number is thrown around on the internet a lot, but I've never seen any documentation to support it, even with magnum cartridges. In fact with 308 class cartridges 10-15 fps/inch seems more accurate. There have been lots of tests done where a longish barrel was tested for velocity and velocity measured again as it is cut shorter. Using the same barrel is the only way to get meaningful numbers. With a barrel 20" or longer velocity loss with ANY center fire rifle cartridge is a lot less than we've been told. Especially with anything over 24". Once you get below 20" velocity does drop off at a greater rate. My 18" 308 doesn't give up much at all to my 22" 308's but that may just be the individual rifle. I've never worked with a 16" rifle, but wouldn't be surprised to see a bigger difference at that length. But with a 308 a 20" barrel isn't a bad place to be. Great post. True statement. Every barrel is different for sure. The numbers ive seen, after cutting a barrel down, is closer to 40 fps/inch. But that number isnt the be all end all. Just what ive seen.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,032
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,032 |
i had the ruger predator with 18” barrel. it was a tackdriver. noise and recoil was a bit much for me after 10 rnds or so, so it went down the road. i also have heavy barreled 20” remingtons and a savage. no issues shooting them.
Uber Demanding Rifle Aficionado
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 639
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 639 |
I used my 18.5" .30-06 for elk this year. It's really nice with a can, but without it's fairly blasty. My current 20" .308 and the few 18" .308s I've had in the past weren't as loud, but they certainly aren't the quietest option. If you aren't going to suppress (which I assume is the case since it will be a loaner rifle), I'd stay 20" - 22", but if you are, definitely go 18".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
For the 308 the loss is typically closer to 25 fps per inch. elocity loss is about 170fps compared to a 22" barrel, Remington 150g loads. ... It might be accurate to say that rifle "A" shoots the same loads 170 fps slower than rifle "B", but not all of that 170 fps can be attributed to the shorter barrel. Not all, but the majority. The 25fps/inch number is thrown around on the internet a lot, but I've never seen any documentation to support it, even with magnum cartridges. In fact with 308 class cartridges 10-15 fps/inch seems more accurate. ...
The difference between my 16.1" barreled Scout and Daughter's 22" is 5.9". A 170fps difference is a 28.8 fps/inch reduction. The difference in the 130g TTSX load we both use is 177fps for 30.0 fps/inch. Example on one, of course.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,090 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,090 Likes: 1 |
My Remington 660 carbine wears a 20 inch barrel. I had a smith glass bed the barrel channel and lighten the trigger a little. Otherwise, everything is same as the day I bought it. Accuracy and deadly power is quite impressive. This South Dakota muley was taken at approx 225 yards or so. I would not want a longer barrel than 20 inches. Sherwood That rifle was the catalyst for the Model 7. Aussie writer Nick Harvey had a modified version which looked like a dwarf Model 700 when the brass from Remington came out to Australia and saw it. The rifle fascinated them to the point that when they returned to the US, the model 7 was released.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,382
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,382 |
From Charlie Sisk: Charlie_Sisk Campfire Ranger Reged: 02/21/02 Posts: 1321 Loc: Dayton, Texas Been doing a little more experimenting......... #88566 - 09/14/02 03:15 PM Edit Reply Quote For a long time I have wondered about how barrel length affected velocity. I had always been told you need a certain length barrel for certain calibers. I have read when folks compared one gun to another with different lengths but I always thought that was not an apples to apples comparision. So I did a few test myself. All these were Shilen barrels. I used the same brass through out the whole test. All weighed to with 1 grain. Bullets were tested on the Juenke machine. Powder charges were weighed to .1 grain. The same rest, chronograph, Redding press, primers all from the same lot, bullets for the same box, same lathe, same crowning tool, same cutoff tool, and each rifle done from start to finish on the same day. Ambient temperature was the same because I shoot from inside the shop. I held the rifle the same way on the rest every time. I shot ten rounds first to break in the barrel. Then cleaned with Sweets and fired one fouling shot. Then shot five rounds and took the average. I used a midrange load fron the Nosler book, not too hot but certainly not a reduced load. Here is what I got. 22-250 Hodgdon 380 34 grains Federal GM210M Remington brass 55 grain Ballistic Tip 27 inches 3469 fps 26 3451 25 3425 24 3407 56 fps from highest to lowest 270 Winchester Hodgdon 4350 54 grains Federal GM210M Winchester brass 130 grain Sierra 27 inches 3115 fps 26 3093 25 3071 24 3054 23 3035 22 3027 21 3001 114 fps from highest to lowest 300 Winchester mag Federal GM215M Winchester brass 74 grains of Reloder 22 180 grain Partition 27 inches 3055 fps 26 3031 25 3024 24 3003 23 2984 22 2960 95 fps from highest to lowest 340 Weatherby Federal GM215M 250 grain Sierra 81 grains Reloder 22 Wby brass 27 inches 2837 fps 26 2817 25 2809 24 2791 23 2777 22 2755 21 2731 106 fps from highest to lowest I think I will do a little more thinking before I recommend a barrel length in the future. What do you folks think ? Charlie .338 Winchester & .257 Roberts Here is the info about the 338 Win and the 257 Roberts. 338 Win mag Winchester brass Federal GM215M primers Reloder 19....73 grains 250 grain Partitions 27 inches.....2806 fps 26 inches.....2787 fps 25 inches.....2761 fps 24 inches.....2743 fps 23 inches.....2716 fps 22 inches.....2697 fps 21 inches.....2676 fps 20 inches.....2656 fps 150 fps from 27 inches to 21 inches 257 Roberts Federal GM210M primers Remington brass H-4350....45 grains 120 grain Partitions 27 inches.....2860 fps 26 inches.....2834 fps 26 inches.....2815 fps 25 inches.....2815 fps 24 inches.....2798 fps 23 inches.....2775 fps 22 inches.....2760 fps 21 inches.....2739 fps 20 inches.....2717 fps 143 fps from 27 inches to 20 inches I want to test this on the next 450 Marlin I build and on a 222 Remington. If I get the same results with those, in my mind the test is over. I think this will be enough data to support the findings. Are there any folks out there who have a degree in this sort of thing ? Maybe explain how many data points would be needed to be able to say this would work with the majority of calibers ? Someone with experience in statistical (spell check) quality control? Charlie -------------------- Sisk Rifles 400 County Road 2340 Dayton, Tx 77535 www.siskguns.com charliesiskguns.com 1-936-258-4984 The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment, componentry, and testing methodology ONLY. As your equipment, componentry, and methodology is different, NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, nor should any data presented form the basis for any load development. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTS, as doing so could be extremely dangerous.
Cancer Sucks
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,246
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,246 |
I am surprised at Charlie's test. I thought there would have been a bigger difference in fps.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Grandpa:the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Dad:son you have 2 choices for supper eat or don't eat.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939 |
I don't think the elk will care..... but I bought a Vanguard in 30-06 during the Wally World big sale last September. It is the first rifle I have owned with a 24 inch barrel. Maybe I am crazy but it seems significantly quieter than my other '06's with 22 inch barrels when I have fired it at game and the time I forgot to put my ears back on when sighting in....it was 90 degrees then and I took them off while waiting on the barrel to cool. Other than that I haven't noticed the two extra inches on the barrel as making the rifle "unhandy".
An 18 inch barrelled .308 must be a loud rascal. If you are gonna use it for a loaner, maybe loan your friend some earplugs with it....or use a can. I shot a Doe yesterday with my Weatherby VG 243 with the 24" barrel. First time I have shot it without ear protection. As soon as I pulled the trigger my first thought was actually "wow, that wasn't loud at all."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939 |
On the other hand I also have the Remington 600 Mohawk 243 with the 18 1/2" barrel. That thing is brutal without "ears" on.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,739
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,739 |
my- 8 mm-- 20" 35 W -- 18" 7-08 -- 20 " .308 -- 18" .308 -- 18" Depends where you hunt. Here in the N.E. Ideal --- Nothing wrong with 22" ----- FPS loss per inch vol. ---- means nothing at 50 yards. . People say a rifle with a 18" tube doesn't balance well---- What ???? ---- Noise to loud ? I don't remember really hearing the shot go off myself. Ear protection on the bench. Hunting with shots out there 300+ yards I'd might stick with the 22" but that's me.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,939 |
I always hear the shot go off while hunting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,277 Likes: 2 |
I have chrono'd 13 different 308's over the years. I consider the 308 an "efficient" cartridge in that bbl length seems to make less difference than many other cartridges. When I began to notice this, I put all the velocity data together and the average velocity difference was 18 fps per inch of bbl.
As noted, different rifles can produce significantly different velocities with the same load, even with same bbl lengths.
Most cartridges I have chrono'd with different bbl lengths, shorter than 20" produces more velocity loss per inch than say, 22" to 20".
Shorter bbls are LOUDER. Shorter than 22" seems to produce noticeably louder muzzle blast. Which is why I avoid the "youth" rifles in shorter bbls for kids. My experience is kids are quicker to associate muzzle blast with recoil. For hunting without ear protection I won't use shorter than 22" anymore. If stand hunting where one can wear ear protection that may be different.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
524 members (06hunter59, 16penny, 16gage, 160user, 10gaugeman, 1beaver_shooter, 56 invisible),
2,761
guests, and
1,254
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,624
Posts18,492,811
Members73,977
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|