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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
How can 'anything' new be a legend?  , pass my 45-70 Shiloh Sharps please. Cut your cases back under 1.80" and you'd be good to go in Michigan's Restricted Firearm zone. Regulations man, not common sense. We talkin' regulations, please bitch get realz Damn, in that case, I'll bring my 450 Bushmaster.  it chunks 250gr barnes x's.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1 |
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle. we can use the 45-70 and the 444 in Iowa so the question would be why?
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,576 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,576 Likes: 26 |
You caint run no 444 out of an AR!
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
You caint run no 444 out of an AR! I got an old 1914 year model 351 Winchester SL with a couple 10 round mags, it's cowpile accurate to 75 yards braced against the back porch post. 
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
Personally, I would be embarrassed to use an AR deer hunting. No offense to anyone intended. Just a personal thing.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,734 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,734 Likes: 1 |
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic. Mark, The 45 Raptor is built on the 308 basic, 1.8" case firing .452" bullet. Gunsmith in Lansing has the reamer; Krieger and Shilen make the barrels; Starline makes the brass; and you use 460 S&W dies. Saves a bunch of cash. 405wcf
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1 |
Jim My 450 Bushmaster is a CVA single shot, 1 shot 1 deer in 2018. Don't get me wrong love AR's just not for deer. Bought the rifle to play with .452 cast bullets
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
It should take a little flack off the 6.5 CM from the old farts. They can discuss how the 351 SL was first/better and how they used one to track down Bonnie & Clyde.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1 |
Think the Monitors(BAR's) in 30-06 might have helped on Bonnie and Clyde
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960 |
Mark
NRA Life Member
Anytime anyone kicks cancers azz is a good day!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Oh The Drama!
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960 |
Hey Scott, what RAR did you buy? The 16" Ranch model?
Mark
NRA Life Member
Anytime anyone kicks cancers azz is a good day!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Oh The Drama!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Hey Scott, what RAR did you buy? The 16" Ranch model? Are you asking about a 450? I didn't get one.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960 |
I'm in one of the areas where we must use the straight wall case. I'm finding it interesting that Winchester is giving us the hype but not the data. "More energy than a 30-30" is a BS fact. The 450 Bushmaster has better energy than a 30-30, but is it not nearly as effective of a hunting cartridge (I've used both). What about velocity, BC, SD, and bullet construction?
Lack of info makes me skeptical. I'm guessing by using a case in the 1.7" (rather than the Michigan max of 1.8") area that they are also targeting the AR market. This then leads me to believe, that this is designed around a MOP in the 40,000 psi area. This would not be too exciting. However, make high quality bullets and brass available to handloaders who will push this puppy towards 60,000 psi in a bolt gun in it could become real interesting. We shall see.
FYI for those of you outside the Great Lakes area, this straight wall thing is a big deal for us. Until recently we have been slug guns or muzzle loaders. Here in lower MI, the 450 Bushmaster has absolutely changed the game. We kill over 400,000 deer per year in our state, most in the southern lower peninsula. That equates to a lot of straight wall cartridges.
405wcf Exactly, a new range of cartridges to fit within the regulations. I'm talking with barrel, bullet and reamer folks right now on a 41 cal version. Using 308 basic. Mark, The 45 Raptor is built on the 308 basic, 1.8" case firing .452" bullet. Gunsmith in Lansing has the reamer; Krieger and Shilen make the barrels; Starline makes the brass; and you use 460 S&W dies. Saves a bunch of cash. 405wcf Cool, pm me the gunsmith's name please.
Mark
NRA Life Member
Anytime anyone kicks cancers azz is a good day!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Oh The Drama!
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960 |
Hey Scott, what RAR did you buy? The 16" Ranch model? Are you asking about a 450? I didn't get one. Sorry I confused Gunner's post with yours.
Mark
NRA Life Member
Anytime anyone kicks cancers azz is a good day!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Oh The Drama!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
How do you keep the bullets in the case?
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
How do you keep the bullets in the case? Anything like this, taper crimp, coupled with an appropriate powder to fill the case to compression so the bullet CANT set back, I do that in all my auto load/self defense rifle/pistol ammo.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,960 |
Mark
NRA Life Member
Anytime anyone kicks cancers azz is a good day!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Oh The Drama!
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,729 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,729 Likes: 2 |
We hunt in Iowa for deer season and they require either slugs, muzzleloader or straight wall cartridge. It looks interesting to me from that perspective. I could see several makers pick it up for a light bolt action rifle. we can use the 45-70 and the 444 in Iowa so the question would be why? Less than 1/2 the recoil.
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