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As a proponent of individual freedom, I also believe in individual responsibility.

The concept of “herd immunity” is important in public health.

When the percentage of immunized individuals in a population drops to a critically low number, the propensity for a serious disease outbreaks goes way up.

So what do you do. There has to be a balance.

DF

Here is some data/education from the CDC:

Crude death rates 1900-1999. Read the graph.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm4829.pdf
Death rates from childhood diseases dropped off dramatically before vaccines were developed, mostly due to better hygiene, sanitation and healthier diet.

Again, from the CDC ie. history of measles and vaccines.
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

"In the 9th century, a Persian doctor published one of the first written accounts of measles disease.

Francis Home, a Scottish physician, demonstrated in 1757 that measles is caused by an infectious agent in the blood of patients.

In 1912, measles became a nationally notifiable disease in the United States, requiring U.S. healthcare providers and laboratories to report all diagnosed cases. In the first decade of reporting, an average of 6,000 measles-related deaths were reported each year.

In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year, among reported cases, an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles."

How many killed in car crashes each year nationally during that same decade? Not trying to diminish any deaths regardless of cause but things need to be kept in context.

The american medical industry now kills far more people each year according to this study by Johns Hopkins https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...w_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us
which corroborates several other independent studies done previously.

You can say that again. 😁

You beat to it SBTCO. Good post.
I'm at work so its hard to post everything with getting interrupted.




DF,

If child is vaccinated for measles, chicken pox, ect. but my children are not and they come to school with the measles, the vaccine protects the other children from being infected, correct. And since that has to be the case or the vaccine program is faulty, then why would anyone be worried if my children have the measles?
And just so you know, I used this very argument with the Schools Attorney's. My children never got vaccinated and not one of my 7 ever contracted any of the diseases the other children did even though the others were vaccinated against those diseases.
I know adults who have gotten measles, ect. and they were vaccinated to prevent that from happening. This can go on for ever. Then you have the flu shots and all those who still get the flu. The argument to be shot up with who knows what is not very sound especially when you really look at the history of vaccines and diseases.
My individual responsibility is very sound, but I'm not to sure about those who follow the herd.

+1

And how old would one have to be? Is 67 old enough?

No slamming at you but age and wisdom don’t always correlate. Age only means a fellow has a wrinkled nut sack and has to pee 4 times a night.

But you pay your money and you take your chances.

then you must not be as bright as you think you are or led a sheltered life.

Its 2019.

Some mommy,s in long denim skirts don't realize it.......

And god is telling em vaccines are the debil probably....

And their kids die.

The USA aint supposed to be some 3rd world schitt hole....

I could maybe agree with you if it were true that vaccinating wiped out diseases or at least was a real preventive against them, but unfortunately that has not been the case. Even the CDC, a Gov. funded organization, has stated this. If my parents, my siblings and me, my children, and my grandchildren had contracted any of these diseases, possibly died, were physically affected by them, ect. if this were the case and I refused to believe in vaccinations, then yes, I would be dumb [bleep]. But this not the case. There were a couple of kids in my school that were crippled with one wearing a brace. Polio was the cause. They had been vaccinated.
Calling my life sheltered is humorous at best.

This is not a game. These diseases can do terrible things.

Wow. Vaccines have not had an affect on communicable disease?

And I thought the Q stuff was silly.........

You play with serpents out there?

This is a question for all parents. We all deserve full and honest information and a full informed consent. I find comments on this topic showing an acceptance by many of what the government and media have said are good for all. Should we believe this without detailed facts. Many times we are a similar opinion of our "group good/benefit" by the government and media on anti gun, anti hunting, what rights we can prove we need etc. I don't think many of us just believe the opinion when it doesn't match the facts.

Yes, there can be benefit from vaccines. But that is not the entire true facts of the issue.

From the HRSA (division of the US Dept of Health and Human services) website for claims filed and compensated or dismissed by Vaccine 1 as of the date September 3, 2013.

Total deaths 1,117. Most from the DTP shot at 696. Hep B - 53. HPV - 11. Influenza (Trivalent) was 65. Measles 19. MMR was 57. OPV (Oral Polio) was 28.

The HRSA government website ceased posting the statistics in 2015. A total of $3.1 billion has been paid between 1998 and June 1, 2015. All of this $3.1 billion was paid from government funds from a tax that all of us pay for each and every vaccine.

As of March 30, 2018, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (created by Congress and Public Law 99-660) had paid $106.5 million, just during 2018, for 283 claims since the beginning of the 2018 fiscal year. Total compensation paid over the life of the vaccine injury compensation program is approximately $3.7 billion.

The CDC estimates that only about 10% of adverse events are even reported.

Dr. Julie Gerberding, the former CDC director, went on to become the president of Merck vaccines, heading up a $5 billion global vaccine market.

I have read the studies from Dr. Wakefield in England and he did not in fact even draw the conclusion that Autism from from the vaccinations. His specialty was internal medicine and he concluded there were enough gastro intestinal issues related to the vaccinations that there should be a study done. Yes, the Lancet, British medical journal, removed his research and a flap ensured where his license was taken. Later the courts concluded his research did not have the flaws in it, but it was never republished.

If someone wants all parents to believe they are safe and effective then they need to provide actual research. There are too many unanswered questions in my opinion.

Want to read some original research that would indicate we not be getting all the true facts. (a small sampling, and these are not just a bunch of anti vaxers, but a variety of published research)

Sharpe MA, Livingston AD, Baskin DS. Thimerosal-derived ethylmercury is a mitochondrial toxin in human astrocytes: possible role of Fenton chemistry in the oxidation and breakage of mtDNA. Journal of Toxicology vol. 2012, (2012)

J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2010;73(24):1665-77. doi: 10.1080/15287394.2010.519317.

Gallagher CM, Goodman MS. Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002. Toxicological and Environmental Chemistry. Volume 94, Issue 8, 2012

Brown IA, Austin DW. Maternal transfer of mercury to the developing embryo/fetus: is there a safe level?

Seneff S, Davidson RM, Liu JJ. Empirical Data Confirm Autism Symptoms Related to Aluminum and Acetaminophen Exposure. September 24, 2012

Kawahara M et al. Effects of aluminum on the neurotoxicity of primary cultured neurons and on the aggregation of betamyloid protein. Brain Res. Bull. 2001, 55, 211-217

Redhead K et al. Aluminum adjuvanted vaccines transiently increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. Pharacol. Toxico. 1992, 70, 278-280

Singh VK, Lin SX, Newell E, Nelson C. Abnormal measles-mumps-rubella antibodies and CNS autoimmunity in children with autrism. J. Biomed Science. 2002 Jul-Aug;9(4):359-64.[19]James J, Culter P, Melnyk S, Jernigan S, Janak L, Gaylor DW. Metabolic biomarkers of increased oxidative stress and impaired methylation capacity in children with autism. Am J Clin Nutr December 2004 vol. 80 no. 6 1611-1617

SBTCO,

I researched this a bunch before my oldest was born.
And was really anti-vac, but wanted info before I made a decision.
I could find no solid reason not to immunize.
Yes, there will be problems,
Yes, some may have suffered from vaccinations.

Life is a crap shoot, odds and statistics rule.

Your kids are less likely to suffer from vacination than if not.


Yes, I was saying some individuals can't be immunized.
The vaccines don't work on them. (Just as some are naturally immune)

Without repeating my whole post, it's called herd immunity.

If everyone in a city gets vaccinated, and 3 people aren't immunized,
There will be no sick people to infect the 3. (Effectively, they are immune)
If someone brings the disease in, and one of the 3 gets sick, no one else will catch it.
If another of the 3 dies get it, there is only one potential victim left.
No epidemic.

So yes, by the hippies not vaccinating their kids,
They are a threat to everyone else.


Is my info correct or propaganda?
Who the heck knows. I dont trust the government.
But I sure as he'll don't trust the new age Swammi Salami types either.
We have a local chiropractor who is outspoken about a vaccinations and
"Modern medicine", he makes a mint selling tons of non tested, non regulated, (natural? It's not tested!)
health supplements.

Is he smarter than the CDC? The "real" docs? Or is he just making a fortune selling stuff?

You could wipe out a disease possibly if it were not for two things...lack of vaccinations in underdeveloped countries-despite the best humanitarian efforts of caregivers from countries other than those lacking, and secondly the ones who jump the gun and quit getting vaccinated here partially due to the mistaken notion that the danger has passed. These are the EXACT two reasons that these supposedly eradicated diseases have made a limited "comeback" here.

Rocky said something about "what's next the bubonic plague". There's a case of something that there is no vaccine for and which has never been totally wiped out, even here in this country. It is just not heard of as much due to antibiotics and sanitary conditions. There are always some cases floating around with it being more prevalent out west.

Ethan,

And the "limited" is key.
Limited is due to those who vaccinated.
If more people didn't vaccinate, limited would have instead been sever outbreaks.
So,

Those who vaccinate are saving and protecting the dumb, lazy, drags on society.

Sounds like other parasitic segments of society.

Some live off others work.
Some survive off others diligence.

How do i copy someone post and re-post it???

Try the “quote” function

Ok thanks.