Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska THe Last

I guess my big bitch are with those whom cry they have a right to " traditional ways" when it comes to hunting and fishing. But when the Gov't gives them the OK to do so turn right around and hunt seals, swimming 'bou, etc out of boats powered with gas motors rather than paddle. If you are using outboard and snowmobiles you are not doing it "traditional ways" and should be forced to follow the modern game regs.

I think the above mentioned hunting is restricted to the native people of Alaska and rightfully so. I believe the game has been rerouted from traditional routes due to the expansion of occupied area in general by the invasion of the white man. I think the natives have to travel much further to satisfy their needs and without modern access it would be virtually impossible to satisfy these needs. remember one thing we have a nasty habit history of taken what's not ours. To quote an American Indian chief [The wild west wasn't the wild west until the white man arrived] Just a thought from an old man that lived amongst them.

Wonder what then causes migration route changes out in the bush??? I think we blame ourselves for too much impact often.

As to resources, lets just say subsistence isn't sport hunting. Its for food. And while I've said before I had issues with how it was done, then it dawned on my what the uses are and the time involved and heck yes, if legal, use what you have, you aren't hunting, you are at the store shopping for food. To say it the same way here if subsistence/native hunters should paddle a skin canoe to the "store" then probably all of us that eat food from a grocery store should walk or ride a horse etc....

The fact is that things will always be changing and all you can do is get along the best you can, watching out first for you, then for family, then for others. Fairly simple in many ways.

They were nomads back in traditional days, let them be that again if they want to use tradition as an excuse to circumvent game laws.

Hey Sam, hope that you are doing well. Shoot me an email if you can.

rost495
your' first paragraph makes sense and well taken. but then again the bush would still be there if not exploited by a few whose intention were less than honorable. we have little left on this spaceship called earth Alaska was the referred to as the last frontier and a lot of its' resources and tradition have been lost in the name of progress. I fear as time goes by the next last frontier will be the south pole and exploited in the name of progress. just a thought.

Then quit crying about 'Traditional ways" that others may observe, unless they are breaking a law.

All residents of Alaska have to follow the same FnG laws, no matter their skin color or heritage.
The only exceptions at all are that Native Alaskans that reside on the coast can still hunt Marine Mammals for food, skins and such.
When commercial hunting of Marine Mammals was stopped, those who had a tradition of eating and utilizing those animals and products were allowed to carry on as before and those who only had commercial venues were stopped. That was like 1971 or so.

It seems to me that you dont know what 'traditions' other people have, how they came about, as well you seem , to me, to confuse "Tradition" with "Primitive".

People can start and stop "traditions", like Christmas, for example. We know when and where that started and why and how its evolved. Would it be wrong to sing a Xmas carol or , just because Moses's book came out before Christs, that the new Testament is null and void, and not "traditional"?

The Inupiaq I live amongst are progressive people who adopt what makes life easier. Adapt and progress, survive and determine their own way.


Change and adaptation can be found in transportation, and weapons, clothing and even religion. They let go of the old and move onto the new and retain their identity, and evolve and survive as human beings do.

Firearms here in the Arctic are 200 years in regular use, outboard motors 100 years in use, all bought and payed for by those who could afford them, sold by those who made them and brought them here for sale.
Started 200 years ago and keeps happening, but insted of ships , they fly in a jet to a store rather than a trading post, ect.
Just because someone of one skin color invented something gives them no right or say in who decides to adapt/buy/use what they have, despite their nationality or race.



$$ money or skins, people buy what they can use, all the world round..

The animals havent changed, the lands havent changed, the need to eat hasnt changed nor the mindset of those who are actually doing the work.

The place I sit and await Caribou to cross the river still has a 5 Caribou a day limit, as well, only so many Caribou can fit in a boat, so it limits itself.
My wifes family has been hunting that area for at least 150 years that they know of , and probably more.
They used to use a kayak and lance to catch swimmers and snares in depth to catch those who crossed. Kills of 20+ a day for as many days as Caribou were passing through, were common, but when that all your clothing, you food through the freeze up and feed for your dogs, trade in skins or bedding and boots, it may have not been enough some years.

Dog teams and such are much reduced as is the need for clothing/bedding skins and the amount of hunting being done is much reduced from just 50 years back. Time and 'traditions' change, but the need to eat is there.

People who stay within the law should be able to do their hunting any way they want.

Not to bring religion into this, but last year I was in Jerusalem at the Wailing Wall and was approached by a rabbi. Turns out he knew my rabbi and he asked if I wanted to do a traditional Jewish religious act (called wrapping Tefilin) at the wall, which is considered to be one of the most traditionally pious acts possible. I said yes, so the rabbi gets on his cell phone, calls my rabbi, and over the speaker my rabbi in California recites the prayer with me.

Traditional? Nope. But it certainly was a modern adaptation of a traditional act and probably as true to the essence of what was meant as could be.

I see what Chip and his family do in a similar light.

As far as tradition and such go, the negotiations for ANILCA and ANCSA happened in the '60s and '70s...

Well Caribou under your logic I guess I should be able to hunt with full auto rifles because my kin folk used flintlock. And because they sold deer for the market, a.k.a. market hunters, I too can do it and fill my dump truck...hell a dump truck only holds so many deer, right ?
The people I live among accept that laws should be the same for everyone regardless of race, spirituality or ethnic background

I think we are at the point to agree to disagree IMHO.

Folks around here hunted with flintlocks and progressed to the legal semi auto's in a couple of century's in parallel with other folks further south and beyond.
Commercial hunting is alive and well today with an entire industry devoted to guiding. Instead of being a Hunter, people make $$ catering to Hunters by showing them the way, camping with them, flying them, lodging them, etc.,.it has evolved from selling carcasses to selling a chance at killing something, and as a subsistence Hunter rather than trophy Hunter , I bring my wife to do "Guide" duty's.

If full auto was legal and practical to hunt with, though for which I cannot think of any examples, then fine.

If the game population is high and sustainable, then fill your truck, like a fisherman fills a trawler.

If you filled your pickup with Deer, would you give it all away after butchering?

Perhaps give what you can and keep what you must?

Food is a large part of a culture, (Where would the Italians be with out Spaghetti?)and Caribou, etc are cultural foods here, and cannot be bought in a store. Most every hunter I know hunts for multiple family's and young, old and infirm. Sharing and giving get high respect here amongst the small villages where everyone knows each other and familys are extended and deep, people are expected to share.
Some hunters are better than others some people only fish, some work labor jobs and pay the bills, yet , at the end of the day they eat, sleep and wake up warm to do it again. What may seem excessive to some is because they dont understand the redistribution system thats in fine working order all over Alaska.

The people I live among accept that laws should be the same for everyone regardless of race, spirituality or ethnic background, as everyone has to have a Alaskan State Hunting/fishing/trapping, etc license and follow the same laws, bag limits, seasons as everyone else. Game Unit to Game unit, locals seem to know best and adjust accordingly

You'd think that the folks descended from the folks who took the land would be too big to whine about inequality in game regulations. We've changed, smaller now and taken to sniveling.

I can see now the logic you use. The same logic a convicted felon uses if his conviction is expunged.... "I am not a convicted felon it was expunged"...well the felon seems to forget you must be convicted to be expunged.
Oh yes it was the Chinese whom started spaghetti not the Italians and folks around here were hunting with atlas, spears and rocks long before gun powder was developed.
I have no issue with you personally we've never met nor will we likely ever meet, my issues are with those whom use culture as a means of (read that excuse) being able to walk both sides of the aisle using a liberal state's ruling body to their advantage. Remember I was an Alaskan myself for 50 years.

I must go plow snow now so the neighbors can ski out onto the lake and spear trout thru the ice.

sounds like I wouldn't plow then..... if principles matter.

Ya know Chip, we give away some of what we take here too, its just common sense for those that can't get out and need or want some meat. If we are lucky to take what we want thats even better. But I generally give away to others first, and then look towards our needs. That could get one dead in the north, but not here.

Regardless living as you would want to be treated is never a bad thing IMHO. Respect. Communication. Sharing. Love. Not a thing wrong with those. Might have even read some about that in a book a few times.

I'm assuming this contains your argument, more or less. It appears you take "traditional ways" to mean traditional methods.
Traditional ways could also mean hunting as a lifestyle. The methods used would be whatever is effective and available. Why should their culture be frozen in a past time? Ours is not.
But that does leave the different laws for different people fire still burning. Legislation is such a messy business.

I presently have a kid going to school in Fairbanks. He is a village kid from Noatak. He was captain of their basketball team and is forced to go to school in Fairbanks in foster care. He has hunted and fished since he could walk. During one fall, he shot a truculent grizzly that was trying to get their caribou meat at his grandfather's camp. It was filled with parasites and worms and the young man didn't record the DLP or salvage the meat. A Brown shirt happened by and cited the young man and it was decided by the court to give him 6 months of time in the Juvenile detention center. He got into several fights at the center and has actually been in FCC for those interactions. He wants very badly to go back to Noatak where he is happy and he can hunt and fish and actually play basketball because the result of all the legal carnage was that his inconsistent academic attendance caused him to be ineligible and his foster parents couldn't get him to BB practice.

Traditional subsistence users are subject to laws. And it hasn't always been the best for them. This kid doesn't use a cell phone and wants to get back up to the Noatak river where he can make meaning of everything. He did what he felt was natural but the system wanted to teach him a lesson. Should he have shot the grizzly? Yes. Did he understand that he had to process the bear? No. Is it a learning experience for him to be associated with the riffraff of society while he learns his lesson. I don't think so.

People might get all butthurt that Alaska Natives living in the village have different hunting opportunities that people who don't live in the village. But the truth is that sometimes the system isnt quite fair and many of those kids from the vill have a distinct disadvantage with dealing with the rules that have been placed upon them. I say let them co-manage areas like that and have tribal court systems. Don't cause a super good kid to be confronted with the worst part of our society because he doesn't know how a DLP works.

One of the roughest things in Alaska is that if you do something that you shouldn't do like shoot a sublegal dall sheep and you report yourself that the system will throw the book at you and make you pay while somebody who poaches and gets caught will pay less. That crap has to change.

At the risk of breaking a 24hcf rule, I wanted to post a little more on topic.

Seeing a different episode, looks like these guys have different seasons. So they aren't limited to just that 10 day season (or whatever it was) in the fall.

How many different seasons are available to a family to hunt caribou or moose or bear for food in the bush?

[quote=kaboku68One of the roughest things in Alaska is that if you do something that you shouldn't do like shoot a sublegal dall sheep and you report yourself that the system will throw the book at you and make you pay while somebody who poaches and gets caught will pay less. That crap has to change.[/quote]

I totally agree with you on this. When I got to Elmendorf in 2011, at my in briefing for the base, one of the guys from base wildlife told us "It's easier to get away with murder in Alaska, than it is to commit a game and fish violation". Truer words never spoken in my opinion.

Also, I know a guy in Palmer that thought he was shooting a fork horn moose several years go, only to find out it had another tine and one that was broken off on the other antler, thus a sub-legal bull. He called ADFG to report what he did, and started harvesting the moose and bringing it out of the woods as he was instructed to do. After 2 or three trips back and forth, the brown shirt showed up. He wrote him up for several violations one being wanton waste of game meat. Said individual lawyered up and fought the charges and won in court. Granted he still had to pay his lawyer and court fees, but he was cleared of it. That is a prime example of why people that maybe make an honest mistake don't report it. I have given up calling in fishing violations, as I have always been told there are no troopers available to investigate to respond.