Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 600 yard 30-30

A buddy is building this for a friend. It is a bolt gun. He will compete with it as a Palma rifle I believe. Below is the initial chrono work to make sure it has enough beans to do the job. Thought you folks would be interested in this different kind of project.





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I have finished with the velocity testing for now. Still using the 168 gr. Berger Hybrid out of a 28" barrel. Temperature was 51 degrees. Four powders were tested, and three of them produced good velocity. The burn rate of the Vihtavouri N530 and Accurate 2460 was perfect. The IMR4166 ran out of room at 38 gr. and didn't make much velocity.

N530

36 gr. - 2677
38 gr. - 2795
39 gr. - 2816 (velocity per grain leveling off)


AA2460

39 gr. - 2741
40 gr. - 2793
41 gr. - 2844


N201

37 gr. - 2674
39 gr. - 2789


IMR4166

38 gr. - 2603
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Just curious why did he pick a 30-30?

It looks like fun. Those velocities are going to play hell on the brass, but if he gets what he wants, it's all good. 30-30 brass is cheap enough anyway.

Maybe he can talk Lapua into a run of brass.....

Kaiser Norton

Be interesting to see how the brass does.
This will be a custom chambered bolt gun.
Good tight brass fit, minimal sizing, stiff action, I'm sure.


Even with thin 100+ year old designed brass,
whole 'nother ball game than a lever.

Well, Michael Turner of New Mexico has been shooting a 30-30 for years in serious short range competition. Of course he uses a custom BR rifle. He has sent many of us home with our tails between our legs at matches. My buddy, Bamban, is a High Master shooter and decided on a whim to build a rifle, Maybe Palma, for medium range comps. That is 300-600 yards.
The chrono work and velocity workup was with Michael's Ruger #1. I believe they have found brass from a kinda new company that is working well, Starline maybe? I can find out. I have some Federal brass without headstamp that was given to an elderly friend of mine for experimentation. I donated some for them to play with.
I will try to keep you informed as the project advances.

Just received this note from Bamban:

Michael did some proof testing of 30-30 brass using his own massive machined proof test receiver and a proof barrel, firing the same case at proof load, I believe was 30 times, brass survived.

The final product will be in a MCS action by Mo Defina. That action is pretty stout with an obnoxiously long tenon - around 2 inches.

Not your grandfather's 30-30....

The brass should survive. Does he have plans to examine the brass after each reloading? Even with a tight chamber, it's gonna want to thin itself out and stretch a little. It's no problem. It just means he'll have to determine how many good loads he can get from it before the brass is used up. For competition, cost is rarely a consideration, just functionality.

No, it ain't a mod94.
Steve, I think he will have plenty of brass and Michael learned over the years that you need to watch the brass. It does grow, as I found with my 225 and 219AI Zipper.

Interesting. The loony is strong on this thread!

John Wooters wrote about leaning hard on a .30/30 in a TCR single shot. IIRC he didn't provide load data, but ran it up to .300 Savage territory. He was whitetail hunting, of course.

Might have been in his book on trophy deer hunting. Have to dig it out and re-read it.

Sounds like fun.

Yeah, I always heard you shouldn't hot rod a .30-30 even in a good bolt gun because the brass is thin, or does this guy have a source of "SPECIAL" brass? Do they now make .30-30 +P?

What action is he using for it?

They are testing or as mentioned above some new brand of brass. It is looking good. Nosler works well for them also. They make their own custom dies to size the brass no more than necessary. They do not want to overwork their brass sizing it.

MCS action by Mo Defina

In an older Nosler manual Steve Timms mentioned loading a Ruger No. 1 in 30-30 to some pretty decent velocities with the 125 grain NBT.

I was told that you could reach him, Mo @ 203-775-1023 Some folks called it the PAS receiver also.

Lots of folks used to use the .375 Winchester brass necked down for both the 30-30 and the 30-30 Ackley. They can be hard to find now. I saw my uncle raise up his pre-64 Mod 94 and shoot, off hand, at a big doe a tad over 300 steps. She dropped like a rock from a high shoulder shot. It was her unlucky day! ha

For years I have heard the old tale about 30/30 brass being weak and thin. Nobody who repeats this tale has ever taken the trouble to measure any brass. The truth is, the web on 30/30 brass is, on average, juat as thick as the web on my 308 Norma Mag brass. The case is thin at the front but this has no bearing on strength at the head. In addition, most rifles chambered for rimmed cartridges enclose most of the case within the chamber. In a Ruger No.1, the case is entirely contained except for the extractor cut. I have long noticed that rimmed cases do a remarkable job of containing pressure.
I have seen no evidence that any case, regardless of shape or pressure, stretches at all from firing; provided the firing is done in a rigid, true, front locking, action. I'm being called. More later. GD