Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How much is “Enough”?

A 30-06 with the proper bullet would likely be enough for anything in the Western Hemisphere. But there’s other things in my mind that play into the equation. Distance to game, angle of shot (do you want to have to wait for a perfect angle??), weight of the rifle (mountains can get steep), bullets available - not as big a deal as 50-60 years ago, prairie (wind) and there’s more.

I’ve gotten to not want to carry meat, hide, and antlers out of a steep ravine or even a draw. I like to plant the animal were it stands because!! I have steel knees, arthritis etc.l’m older than some and I get in worse shape as time goes by. Stopping time and keeping in shape are about equally likely.

So, a native gal kills a record polar bear with a 22 LR, a famous guide kills a charger bear with a 9mm. Perhaps then I’m over gunned and I over kill.

(I hope no one is offended when I take a rifle that shoots a cartridge that has a belt on it). Especially since I feel the 30-06 is the finest cartridge ever developed.

This year, I’m lucky enough to go for moose, I may never get to go again. Should I be concerned that someone else thinks my 300 Win Mag is too much gun?

That has not been one of my concerns! My concern is a 81/2 lb rifle too heavy? I know the area is fairly flat, but still. Should I carry a 350 Mag 600 with a Kevlar stock - much lighter and handier or a 30-06 carbine or should I carry a ss 270 with a Kevlar stock - lighter and powerful enough — more than that 22LR and the 9mm and they could get the job done some of the time.

If anyone would care to bet, I’d bet more Canadian moose have been killed by the 303 British than any other cartridge and I have zero proof of that. I have a SMLE but I won’t be taking that, I guess I don’t follow what’s popular. The 303 probably is equal to the 270, I suppose.

I’m thinking I’ll take a backup rifle. I’m thinking the 300 Win Mag is primary and now I gotta worry about the backup rifle. Oh my.

If everyone would just get a Big Green Egg, there would be no need for such discussions.

Enough to handle the game and whatever threats are in the area, whether the threat wants to eat you, stomp you into pudding or cut your throat and throw you in a ditch.

Elk ribs are much thicker than Deer ribs. But I don't think they magically bounce bullets off.

The anatomy of elk will make deer hunters think they are aiming at a vital area when in fact they are not.

They are a different shape, and bi colored.

They also can run for the roses if given the chance!

Who was that man who said “ anyone who thinks a 30-06 isnt perfectly adequate for large bears is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship “?
Charlie

A fellow who is a true sage and valued member of the 'fire.

Experiences such as these confirm my belief that knockdown power is a myth.




P

Last moose was pretty much same story .338 RCM 185 TTSX range 15 feet or so. Three shots right through the boiler room in about 10 seconds. I didn't hit any significant bone. It just took about 20 seconds to figure out he was dead. I rather doubt that a 458 lott or a 250 savage would have really done that much differently

If you hit the heart, it will die. How fast doesn’t seem to be that much cartridge dependent. If you shoot through the shoulders, the animal won’t run off and it is to some extent cartridge dependent. Not enough cartridge or poor bullet selection = may not do the job. A white tail doe’s shoulder stopped a 165 grain bullet from my 30-06 and the bullet never entered the body cavity. If I would have used a better bullet, no problem. But bullets and cartridges matter.

Which bullet and what did it look like?

I didn’t want to start a war with Sierra lovers. It was a Sierra 165 soft point. Granted I was close to the doe when I shot it. The second shot was in the head and that worked.

My brother shoots Sierra bullets in his 6.5x55 and does ok with that combination. So just because I do not use those bullets anymore, I’m not saying they are bad - Sierra probably Improved their bullet design since then.

The year I shot that doe, my brother-in-law lost a bull elk using the same bullet. He said he could see the bullet hit - just behind the shoulder. He followed that bull for most of the day - blood drop here and there.

Another brother had a failure with the same bullet but I don’t recall the details other than lack of penetration and over expansion.

We had driven to Sedalia (SP?) Missouri and had picked up quite a few bullets.

Another bullet failure was with a 6mm on Antelope. I call it a failure even though the horns are hanging on the wall in my gun room. It was with 105 grain Speer hot core bullets. I shot that buck 6 times through the ribs/lungs before he dropped. Each bullet made a pencil size exit. That 105 Speer bullet was a very accurate bullet in my 6mm by the way.

I know it is where the bullet lands that is important. But that doesn’t mean bullet construction - depth of penetration and controlled expansion are meaningless. To get penetration there needs to be a certain amount of velocity/energy same with expansion.

I’ve experienced other bullet failures and I’ve been kidded for taking too small a rifle (cartridge). But after hunting as many years as I have, I have opinions based on my experience. Other hunters have the same right to their opinion.

It’s just clear that my opinion is the best. 🤗

Thanks. Did you recover the 165 and get a look at it?

A person couldn't manage the recoil of a round whose projectile carried enough momentum downrange to on its own actually knock down an elk.

Yes, the bullet was close to flat, lead and jacket separated.

Interesting stuff, more of you agree with each other than not. This is totally random, and not really germane, but may be food for thought. My son in law has a couple livestock trucks and has moved cows in the intermountain west for years. Lots of experience. He inherited a number of good centerfire handguns from his Dad, and I've seen him shoot, way better than average. No Elmer Keith to be sure, but competent. After several unfortunate trials, you guessed it, he's back to the .22 long rifle 40 gr solid at whichever angle presents itself. Now to be clear, these are skull shots for an instant humane execution. Assuming bigger was better, I turned him on to the famed mule shoot study by the army back at the turn of the previous century. After trying three centerfires, including the vaunted .45 acp, it's back to the .22. He is not as long winded as I, his reply: "I hate drama, them critters are hurtin' an stressin' the others, the .22 does the job".
Be interesting to see what the large animal vets think of this.

I euthanized a lot of ketotic Holsteins, calves, some mules and horses.

The 22 mag solid was good. The 30/30 was also good. 357 was way too loud, 3006 way too much.


We had a downer heifer from a hard calving, it was eating not ketotic, just wouldn't even try to get up. The co owner of the farm took out a 22 Ruger black hawk and shot it in the nose! He was aiming he thought at the brain case but was too low.

That freaking heifer jumped up and hauled ass!

We got her corralled and in the hospital pen, about 10 days later she was off antibiotics and ready to enter the milk string.

I tagged her # 22 of course!

I think perhaps a simple statement would be.

The benefits of increased kinetic energy in a ordinance terminal ballistics performance is easily erased by the inherent recoil induced. (in some shooters ability to remain accurate.)

Flintlock:

IF we could get a close -between the eyes shot, not much is going to survive.
However, that doesn’t happen all the time plus 22 RF aren’t legal for big game most places.

Jerry

What goes around comes around. Now we're back to this.

Must be something to that stress factor. UPS man hit an nasty old range cow last year and reported it to my daughter, she said she'd deal with it, drove back to one pissed off old cow. Slobbering mad. Two shots from a .270 and a dented Dodge later, she cut out the backstraps, called me a week later to say she couldn't even stick a fork in the gravy, the meat was so tough.