Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Black/Ninja Like Swat Team Members

I have a question. Why does the county swat team dress in black and include masks and black cloth head covers under their helmets? I assume the black is so that they don't show up at night. I can understand that but what does the black cloth mask and black head covers do for 'em ? Frankly, it all looks a little over-done to the casual observer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ya know, I've often thought that if someone was to observe armed people lurking around outside a neighbors house dressed such as that they should, ahem, shall we say "question" said persons as to what their business was.

Not exactly the way I would imagine law enforcement should be conducted.

I would think conducting business in this manner would cause un-necessary return fire.

Just my .02

It is supposedly for the officers "protection" and the "intimidation" factor. I call BS, as a former Peace Officer it would draw fire from me to see a bunch a armed individuals lurking about like that. Without positive visual and audible identification they are asking for it IMHO. As you can probably tell, I do not approve of the "new breed" of Law Enforcement, they are not military on search and destroy missions, they are supposed to be enforcing the law and "KEEPING" the Peace.

They want to look like S S Storm Troopers. It should alarm every American. Why it does not is beyond me. Their uniforms should be blue and identify them beyond any doubt as POLICE. I don't begrudge them any protective gear necessary to do the job but I do not like the Hitler S S look at all. There is a huge difference between a military assult force and a Police Special Weapons and Tatics squad. Tatics employed by a military force during a time of warfare become murder when used by a police force aginst it's own citizens. It disturbs me that our police SWAT people want to look, act, and deploy in a military assult force manner.

No flames or insults intended to our law enforcement people. You guys and girls have my utmost respect. Just voicing a concern about what seams to be a disturbing trend.

I thought it was, "To protect and serve"!! When our police officers start wearing masks it sounds more like vigilantes or afraid of repercussions if they are known for what they are doing. Kinda like some SS team. Those coffee drinking donut dunkin good old boys need an education in our freedoms. Mine says my home is my castle, my freedoms will not be infrenged. Probably get killed but break down my door at night and I won't be the only one. I'm still mad as heck about Waco and Ruby Ridge. Some pencil pushing dude behind a desk calling shots needs one himself. Start with Reno.-- no

PDS and Sonnie,
When I was still working all the SWAT team put on was a heavier vest and got out the long guns, we still looked like Peace Officers, I see no need today to alter that. But the new guys want to look "BAD" which is BS. No wonder people have less respect today. With them hiding their faces and badges what do they expect?

Some of the posters in the squad room look like the cops are some kind of SAEL team and have captions like "The Ultimate Law Enforcement". I'd like to see them torn down and replaced with copys of the Constitution and BoR!

OK, old fart, dinosaur rant off. Somebody pass me a Valium.

PDS,

Well said. I am also tired of guys (like O'Reilly, who should know better) who keep proposing we use the military to police our borders. The military mission and training is not compatible with policing civillians.

Blaine

AFP, heck who said anything about policing, we take prisoners, don't we? The aliens are just looking for a better life, and willing to do anything,(almost), put them to work building bridges and roads for prisoner wages and the women can do the cooking in the road camps. When they find out it's not a free ride back to the border for another chance to sneak in things will slow down. The way it is now they overload our welfare and medical system and when working, send the money back to Mexico. After a few short years they retire back to Mexico and live in luxury. -- no

This is what I was told by "them" (the guys in black). They wear black and cover their faces to look bad and to intimidate, which I think works very well. BUT, they should have police stamped on the fronts and backs of their helmets as well as on their vests. The reason they cover their faces is to keep them annonymous from would be law suits and wrongful arrests (they all look the same on camera). It also "supposedly" keeps the undercover officers undercover. These same officers work undercover narcotics and S.W.A.T. I think it is all a bunch of hewwey that gives way too much power to the police with no power to the people. On the raids I have seen, they don't even identify themselves as police. They just bust in and start throwing people around. It is no wonder that people are shooting back. They look like freaking gangs of black clad thugs breaking in to people's houses. Just one more way the innocent are losing freedoms. Flinch

No sir! Don't like it! Never did! Dressed like that they're not the police, they're the gov'ts jackbooted stormtroopers. No wonder the cops keep loosing respect. Dummies do it to themselves!

Sometime and somewhere and I don't know when or where peace officers became law enforcers. It used to be that you hired a simi tough guy to put on a badge and a gun and keep his neighbors from hurting each other. Then it changed and way too many bought into the militarization of the police. Way too many dumb laws were passed by well meaning but basicly ignorant politicians. Way too many bought the "WE are different, We are God" concept and harbor the idea that "civilians" would never understand. I don't think we will ever get back to just keeping the peace again. More's the pity.

BCR

First of all, I'm for individual rights and freedoms. I have been a police officer in a major MI city for some time. Everytime we go out, we're outgunned and handicapped by some dirt bags "civil liberties". SWAT team members are very often under cover officers or narcs; that is where the need for the masks came from. Its a mistake to say Tactical officers go around bashing the civilians they swear to protect. When they get called out, It's usually for a hostage rescue op or to take down a drug house. Their operations are usually the result of a major incident in which the average patrol units are not equipped to handle. Without their training and methods, there would be many more police funerals. Personally, I've attended too many in my day. Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear from SWAT teams and I believe an informed citizen would understand there need.

As for the old timer who said he was a peace officer, where did you do your tour and when? 20 years ago there were no ak 47 or ar 15s on the street. In todays picture, Hi powered/auto rifles are common . How else are we supposed to fight back. It's a totally different game today than 15 or 20 years ago.

As I said before, SWAT teams don't go around kicking in doors and bashing people for the fun of it. They respond to extremely high risk situations. The majority of the time, people don't even know they're around.

I agree Ruby Ridge and Waco were a mess. Let's not crap on the memory of the officers that died in those incidents but criticize the actions and decisions of their superiors.

That's enough for me for now. It's a pretty touchy subject when a misinformed person calls me a jackbooted thug!

Quote " Everytime we go out, we're outgunned and handicapped by some dirt bags "civil liberties".

Freedom must be a real bitch for some folks to put up with-Damn shame!

"It's a pretty touchy subject when a misinformed person calls me a jackbooted thug"

Well, If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you can bet your ass it's a duck.

I suspose you are going to tell us that the police NEVER kick in the door on the wrong house? I know it happens. The address gets transposed by a dispatcher and the black clad storm trooper looking jackbooted thugs kick in the door before anouncing themselves as police officers. (They don't anounce themselves because they don't want to give the bad guys any warning)

I know I would get myself killed, but don't think for one second that I am going to take the time to ask if you are a police officer if you kick in my door. I'm going to be returning fire as fast as I can. My big RedAss over this whole topic is: In AMERICA we should not have to be concerned about this. We are protected from unreasonable search and seizure. Kicking in my door without anouncing your self as a police officer and serving me a warrant first is WRONG. Worse, it's illegal and it violates civil rights.

If you want to hide your face while doing your duty to protect the public then you must be doing something wrong or something you are ashamed of. If you are not then you don't have to fear legal action if your face is caught on camera in the performance of your duty.

If you look like a disrespectable thug should it suprise you that the public does not respect you.

Least you forget; a poliice forces duty is to protect the public not wage war on the bad guys or anyone else. If Civil Rights get in the way of you doing your duty to protect the public you should be questioning what you are doing.

I'm sure that law abiding citizens in Germany, Poland, etc...were also told that THEY had nothing to fear...........

We are on a slippery slope....it only goes downward....and it goes faster as you progress in that direction.

Getting to be a lot of ducks around anymore. If an officer is under cover why is he partisipating in a raid? He will have to go to court, does he wear his mask there? No partner, just like our politicians our police forces are getting out of line. Small town locals are beginning to play Rambo for the public. Touchy heck yes, for both sides. Waco, the force doesn't have a leg to stand on, climbing ladders to roof to break in a window like a thief, should have shot the whole bunch, perhaps then the supervisors would have got their due. Remember how many women and children were killed? Whose bright idea to drive a tank over a persons automobile? This sound like an American police force? Some police officers think they are above the law. Try to kick down T Lee as old ways, bull sxxx, a bullet is a bullet regardless what it comes from, if I remember correctly they used plenty of automatics back in the 20s and 30s. Ever hear of a Thompson or is that before your time? Trying to justify masks and black clothing is foolish, there are other ways. -- no

Perhaps the Police Departments should reconsider allowing undercover agents, and 'narcs', from being SWAT members?

Sounds like an easy problem to fix, but I suspect it's used as an excuse to maintain the status quo.

I still think the average criminal hestitates a split second before firing on a uniformed peace officer. Maybe not the hard core ones, but probably the vast majority would pause. By wearing an obvious police uniform, with a face, rather than the 'storm trooper' get up and mask, I think an officer may stand a better chance of walking away to serve another day.

Thompson hell, how would you like to face a BAR? They had a few of those around then too.

Easy boys, let's not get on mac's case too hard. Evidently he is a product of modern LAW ENGORCEMENT and has had drilled into him the concept that the cop is different and somehow "better" than the common herd. It isn't his fault and of course he is proud of what he does. It is a tough job as it always has been. It is an example of what I said. Enforecement becomes the be all end all and common sense and accomidation fly out the window. Too many dumb laws and too many kids think they need to be enforced to the full letter and cut no slack to anybody.
Give you an example. Here is this guy sitting on a park bench skunk drunk. Not bothering a soul just gassed up. Now is public intoxication a violation. Sure it is. Would I arrest him. Heck no, he isn't doing any thing to anybody why futz with him. But he is violating the law.
Or a kid riding a motor scooter with out a helmet. Is he violating the helmet laws? Sure he is. Arrest him? Why. He isn't hurting anything but himself maybe and despite what some of the new law boys feel I am not his mother.

BCR

mac84,

I ain't that "old" of an oldtimer, I retired in 1992. Seen a few changes in my time. Our S.W.A.T. team here (we didn't have one way back in my IL days) still wear a uniform of sorts, green BDU's with Dept. patches and an embroidered Badge on the front and SHERIFF in big yellow letters on the back. Yep, they carry the latest in weaponry and commo gear, but if they show up you damn well know they are the Police! Heck we even have a couple of helicopters with FLIR, night vision gear and enhanced listning devices. All to make sure we have the right place, FIRST!

I was a Deputy Sheriff in Will county Illinois, you know, right outside of Chicago. Then moved to Florida where my 37 year old daughter is Corporal of road patrol on my old department here in Southwest Florida.

In the "good" old days there wern't AK-47, sure enough, there were the same guns we carried and more powerful ones as well, organized BG's had Browning automatic rifles (30-06 full auto) that "High-Powered" enough for you? Thompson sub-machine guns, surplus Sten and MP-40's. We had .38 revolvers and 12 ga shotguns and a few Thompsons and M-2 carbines as well. Nothing has changed, just the vintage of weapons.

The major problem was the fact, THEY knew HOW to shoot them days, no movie "spray and pray" sideways shooting for them. The good old boy's here in Fl had rifles and shotguns, the druggies had black market M-16's, Uzi's and Mac-10's. Yep, they had that stuff 35 years ago, and wern't afraid to use them. At one point early on in my career we had to face hundreds of rioters and had snipers trying to take out anything that looked like a cop, not to mention, and you can check, the black panthers setting booby trapped cars around to catch the careless Officer.

How about WAY back in the roaring twenties and into the thirties when folks like Hammer and Purvis were working? Did they not face some bad shoot outs?

Gimmie a break, if you are a Peace Officer, you are one because you want to be. No need to hide your face and play special forces. Be proud of what you are and do the job identified as one. LE is a proud and honorable profession done by mostly dedicated ('cause they pay ain't that great) individuals. The minority of "hot dogs" are the ones that bring discredit to the fine men and women that make up the majority of the LE community.

I do blame the superiors in the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents, but where was the self restraint on the part of line officers? Why do they allow themselves to get into a "feeding frenzy" like that?

They need to kick a door, better make damn sure it's the right door, our Judges would not pass out warrants like candy on Halloween, we needed to damn near prove the case bofore getting one, not on the say so of a paid informant or anonymous snitch.

As far as funerals go, I too have been in attendance at far too many "Full Dress with honors" funerals myself, in fact one would have been too many.

I also get PO'd when somebody thinks it was a walk in the park to be a Peace Officer 35 years ago, when we left the car we had no portable radio, and backup could be 30 minutes away. I wore my Badge and uniform with pride. I was not afraid to show my face to the BG's.In fact I wanted them to know who was busting them!

Nope, don't by into the "Ninja" stuff, if they are undercover's they need to stay undercover till court, no need to go on the raid in a face mask. Being right and rightious is enough to intimidat the BG's, that and a court system that will put them away, not molly coddle and slap them on the wrist. And my feeling's are the same now as they were then, if you choose to break the law, you choose to give up your "Civil Rights" period.

Bottom line is being a Peace Officer is not a "safe" job, if you want safe, be a stock broker. If you feel the need to hide the fact you are a Peace Officer, then you need to get into another line of work.

OK, I'll go back to my cave and make a new club and burn some Mammoth meat over an open fire.

I am not a cop-basher, far from it, but cops are not perfect and they have serious issues they need to work on. I would not consider becoming one, but my father was a NY State Trooper briefly in the early '50s. He always said there should be a law that anybody who WANTED to be a cop should be turned down.

Black suited SWAT team guys are only trying to live their "Star Chamber" fantasy, though the uniforms must be intimidating to those they confront.

It is the fact the police routinely get out of hand and then say they were only following orders that scares the hell out of me. Anyone who believes cops or soldiers would not turn on their own has not a clue about history. It will happen again, that is the sad part. How could the Nat'l Guardsmen pull triggers on the crowd at Kent State? Horiuchi on Mrs. Weaver? Everyone involved at Waco? Going to other nations only points out how much worse it can get. People are people.

Fact is, people, police included, are sheep.

There is nothing new about cops kicking in the wrong door. In August of '77 in Fairfield, CA, my older brother, 6'2" blonde with blue eyes had his door kicked in by police looking for the black kid across the street.

My brother was not terribly polite to them and got badly thumped, including a collapsed trachea (imagine the elbow shove that did that!) and was left gasping for air when they walked out and proceeded to move across Van Buren St to find the real perp.

Had he not lived so close to a hospital it would have been terminal.

The warrantless police had a decription and PHOTO of a 5'8" black minor and they were willing to kick in doors to catch him.

For various reasons, mostly the fault of my brother, he failed to get much in the way of money out of the fine city of Fairfield. He became a cop-hater and went out of his way around town to promote his views... bad idea.
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