Something I'd like to know is never covered in these incapacitation graphs - not lethality graphs - and that's the relationship between shooter and shootee.
With the 9mm - I guess a lot of those are going to be cops shooting and bad guys getting shot. A bad guy going after a cop is going to be somewhat motivated I guess.
With the .22lr - who's that? Not a cop? Maybe a woman shooting her husband or boyfriend. "What the f***, b****, you shot me!" Less motivated to continue? More easily incapacitated?
I like to know who's shooting and who they're shooting and why.
All things are always on the move simultaneously. - W.S. Churchill
When I was a paramedic we were hospital based. 92 percent of EMS are fire dept based, but our barracks was out in the parking lot of the county hospital. So that, if another ambulance brought in a gsw, of course I heard them describe it on the medic radio, and I went right over to the ER to check it out and to work, I might start an IV, cut off patients clothes, put pt on monitor etc.
Also lots of gsw brought in by car and the nurses would call us on the phone, and I would go over to assist. Furthermore, the ER was, as Tom Cruise said of the bar in Top Gun that had all the sexy gals in it, "This is a target rich environment." The ER was also a "target rich environment." I spent a lot of time over there, I would help an RN, or stacked xray tech, any way I could.
So I got to work many more gsw than I would have had I been a fire dept medic. Also, I got to check out the xrays. Hell doc would be looking at an xray of pneumonia, I couldn't tell s***, looked like cumulus clouds to me. But, a bullet, it shows up on xray very well. A bullet jumps out at you like it has a light on it. Just fascinating to see the entrance wound, then see the xray of where the bullet winds up.
beansnbacon33 you are on to something because in my extensive study of gsw, a single .22 lr to the torso, fifty percent chance of death. Two hits from the little .22 to the torso [chest or belly, they are equally lethal] about a 90 percent chance of death.
Do as I did the other day, put a .38 Special cartridge on the coffee table next to a .22, in fact, I had a .22 mag hollow point. The .38 just looks like a bad ass. And the .22 looks like a joke.
The .22 is no joke if you are looking down the barrel.
I will tell y'all another thing about the little .22lr. Surgeons hate it because it won't exit. Where you shoot somebody with an honest .44 mag, that bullet travels in a straight path and exits. Shoot someone with a .22, the damn bullet enters the chest, but it doesn't exit, it bounces off a rib, goes through the chest and damages the lung some more, then bounces off another rib.
In some ways the little .22 is more lethal because it is less powerful. It is a nasty lethal round.
I believe your assessment by experience 100%, but we're talking stopping power. a lot of times in self defense situations drugs are involved and a 22lr ain't going to stop most of them when they're cracked out.
I'm sticking with the .45 as my goal is to stop them on the spot not die in your care.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
It does not, believe me, take 3 days to die from a .22 shot. Some of y'all boys are delusional.
I never saw somebody get shot but my ambulance usually got there five minutes after the shooting, maybe 10 minutes. We could still smell the gunsmoke. I saw many cases where a guy took two shots from the little .22 and he was Dead Right There, ten minutes after the shooting, when I got there.
So I don't know if the .22 dropped 'em in their tracks but they were down, and out, five or ten minutes later.
It is funny, a rooster can take three hits to the torso and not even develop a limp. But a human takes two hits to the torso and he is dead. I don't even know what to say about the rooster story. That is bizarre. I guess a 3 pound chicken is tougher than a person.
Y'all boys go ahead and believe what you want to. Have any of y'all ever been in a room with a person who has just been shot? Have y'all ever put your hands on a person who just got shot, and gotten their blood on you all the way up to your elbows?
if i was a toter, and it happened to be a .22 rf, or even .22 rf mag i was carrying,
i'd attempt to remember the decision rule of 3 shots, quickly in the torso.
maybe i'd be wrong, but what if i missed the head?
a .22 kills far above it's paygrade.
to implement a shooting is key.
You are right, the .22 kills far above it's paygrade. It is a vicious lethal little round. I worked several hundred gsw when I was a paramedic and I saw about 14 people killed with a single .22 hit to the chest or belly. I saw people killed with just about everything, including, saw one killed with a single shot by the anemic little .25 auto. What I learned is, you don't want to get shot with anything, especially a torso hit.
And we have the story of SC Trooper Mark Coates. Now, he shot the bad guy 5 times with a .357 and the guy lived! That is one in a million. The bad guy had one of those .22 mag mini revolvers. He got one lucky shot to the armpit, missed the vest. Trooper Coates ran about 5 steps to the front of his patrol car and he dropped.
MARK HUNTER COATES Corporal Mark Coates was shot and killed after stopping a car for weaving in traffic on I-95 near the Georgia border.
During the traffic stop the subject began to struggle with Corporal Coates and they both fell to the ground. The man fired a .22 caliber handgun into Corporal Coates' chest, but the round was stopped by his vest.
Corporal Coates was able to force the man off of him and return fire, striking the him five times in the chest with his .357 caliber revolver. As he retreated for cover and to radio for backup, the man fired another shot. The round struck Trooper Coates in the left armpit and traveled into his heart.
The man survived the incident and was sentenced to life in prison.
Corporal Coates was a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and had served with the South Carolina Highway patrol for five years. He was survived by his wife, two sons, two step-daughters, parents, sister and brother.
there is a little more to that story. The guy that was stopped was a grossly overweight fat guy, and the bullets didn't get through the fat. As to the .22, it hit and artery and he bled out. That was a topic of discussion way back when in my law enforcement classes.
How often does someone get shot just once with a 9mm?
You will also notice how the .357 Magnum's missing from that list, which IMO show's the authors bias.
If you only get to shoot someone once with a handgun, and they absolutely positively must be stopped, .357 Magnums were it's at....unless you include variations of the AR-15 with a brace.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
