Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Let’s build a Big Bear Rifle...

Any of those would be pretty cool in my book. I’ve got a good Whelen and a 375 Improved so I don’t need nothing but I’ve dug the 400. Ol Elmer clipped a bunch of game with his. I happen to have a 280 Hawkeye I really don’t need and it’s too heavy to be a 280 in my book. Might make a good 9.3 or 400 depending on what Jess says.

Jesse and I did just that with my wildcat. He stamped it: 41 OM. It stands for 41 Occumpaugh & Manzo. No fire-forming is necessary. Some of the whippy barrels might not have sufficient thickness for the rebore.

Rather than the fire-forming required for the 400 whelen using cylindrical brass, cream of wheat, and all the other stuff: the 41 O&M is simple. It only requires you to take a dirt cheap PRVI 9.3x62 brass case, and size up the neck to accept a .410 bullet, rather than the .411 bullet of the Whelen. It's as simple as resizing 308 win brass to 358 win brass.

I used to think that I needed to fireform them, to "define" the shoulder a bit more, but there's no need.

.410-411 are the real deal, and with the 400 whelen-type cartridges, the recovery from recoil is insanely fast because the recoil is negligible. Being a 4-5 down gun, a bit more forgiving if you miss or wound on the running shot. I can't say the same for a .416 Rem Mag. It's a very long bolt pull, and the recoil feels twice that of my 41 O&M:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ng-1895-scout-rifle-project#Post13233780

Im glad it worked out the way it did, and real good job on your part. Guides love having guys like you that actually know how to handle themselves and their rifles in tough situations. My thoughts on these situations mirror the sentiments Tim Sundles shares on his website. Like Tim, I put human safety above anything else. If a bear acts curious, aggressive, or even just seems off a bit, kill it as soon as you possibly can. All this nonsense about trying to figure out if a bear is bluffing is pure hogwash in my world. When they cross that line they die, cubs or not.

Yukon, my mother was a bear hunting guide, and like you, plenty of stories of predatory behavior from the big ones. I have an old book with traditional stories from my great, great grandfather, Chief Peter Tenass of Eel Ground, New Brunswick, and his brother Chief John Tenass from Red Bank, New Brunswick. The stories were recorded in 1911.

When a bear killed a mother and her children, those Micmac Indians went to the woods, and killed every bear in the area. Over a hundred bear. They left only one. Not even Indians believe in that "save the bear" bullsht.

For those idiots who claim that being mindful and cautious are more important than carrying a gun, just recently in about the past 5 years:

1. An old coworker was killed near Eagle River while hiking.

2. Just a few miles from my cabin, two remarkable young women were hurt badly by a black bear, one died.

3. An old classmate, kenny, was badly mauled outside of Juneau.

4. At a tribal gathering in Lilooet, BC a few years ago, some tribal members told me about their grandmother recently being eaten alive behind her home by a black bear.

In all four instances, they were unarmed, and did nothing wrong.


When I was in a village on Illiamna Lake, no bear walked through the village with children playing about and lived another day. Those bears were dealt with. Human lives are more important than warning shots. Make that shot count.......

Wow Mainer I would love to read that book. Those Elders that lived on the land were / are great people. I've been lucky enough to spend most of my life among the Cree, and they are the finest people I have ever known. I learned to hunt from them.
When I was about 9 my dad hired an old Cree fellow to help us on the ranch. His name was Maxi Desjarlas and he never owned a car or had a drivers license in his life. He lived off the land, trapping in winter for cash money. The Moberly country where we lived was bush country. Real thick stuff. You had to be able to hunt if you were going to put food on the table. Many times I remember Maxi killing bull moose in their bed.

Those Elders also didnt take chances with bears.Especially grizzly bears. In their culture they considered the grizzly bear a bad man. They would describe a big bodied bear as a 'big man.' Took me years to understand that. They were referring to a grizzlies intelligence. Anyone who has much experience around them will realize just how smart they are. I've actually watched them use what can only be described as reasoning skills to get themselves out of bad situations.

A friend of mine was killed a few years ago by a grizzly. He was on a solo sheep hunt in Alberta and walked right into a big sow with cubs feeding on a deer they had killed. His rifle was in one of those pack scabbards and he wasn't able to use it. I heard later that the scene was pretty bad....he had gotten to a knife and likely stuck the bear a few times. She or most likely both her and the cubs, turned up the heat and the result was pretty nasty.

In another fatality that happened the same year about 12 miles from my home, a grizzly came through the window of this couples home. They made it outside but the bear followed them and caught the wife in the driveway. The husband did get to a gun and killed the bear. I know one of the paramedics that was involved, and he said he hasn't seen anything like it in 30-years.

They are nothing to fool with. They have the ability to do a lot of damage in a very short period of time. Im thinking your 95 is about as good a bear gun as I've ever seen. Im searching for one in good shape now.

You’ve got my attention Mainer!

Beretz,

Instead of $2.15 per brass case for the cylindrical brass (currently on back order per midwayusa), you'll be at 52 cents per brass case with the 41 O&M and no fire forming:

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12661

I'm unsure why Quality Cartridge charges such a price for those things? It's a cylindrical case that hasn't undergone any forming, you'd think that would make them cheaper than even a formed 30-06 case.

For reference, a Norma 9.3x62 brass case is usually about $1.00 per brass case.

Thanks Mainer. I’d like to know what you did for dies and such. I have a Ruger 280 Hawkeye sitting here just begging to get made over. Pretty sure there’d be plenty of meat in them chunky Ruger barrels.

Love that rifle, Mainer.

I’d maybe stick with the 9.3 but the 41 O&M looks like a great round. A 350 grain AFrame at 2300+ has got to get it done!

Some terrific rifles here guys, thank you!


Interior grizzly with my 30-06 Rem 700 and 200 gr Nosler Partitions. Have to admit that a couple of 225 gr Barnes TSX bullets from the guide's rifle ended up in the bear as well. There was quite a bit of shooting going on, in a hurry, at modest range.


I hunt all sorts of critters with the 30-06, so it seemed like a good choice for the grizzly hunt as well. Accurate & reliable. Still a favorite.

The black bears I've taken weren't huge, roughly 6 feet, pretty much normal for an adult boar where I hunt in Washington. Used either my 30-06 or a 375 H&H Ruger Number One on them. Ranges were from really close, like 15' out to over 300 yards.

Washington black bear with the 375 H&H Ruger:


Interesting thread.

Guy

That's pretty danged impressive.

I do have this 375 H&H Model 70 with a Douglas Barrel. Shoots great! I just haven't hunted with it yet:




Love the stock, but perhaps it ought to go into a McMillan for serious bear-hunting chores. Not sure I'm ever going back for another "big bear" though. One, somehow seems enough.

Black bears? Oh heck ya, I love hunting the local black bear.

Guy

Almost four years ago, I was supposed to get dies made up, but never did.

I just neck up the brass to accept a 41 caliber bullet. I don't even resize new cases. In fired cases, I neck down with a 41 magnum pistol die and full length resize the bodies with a 9.3x62 die. I set the die so that is doesnt come near the neck. So about 3/4 of the case gets full length sized.

Prop the easiest way, is to just have an existing set of 9.3x62 dies modified. 100 yards up the hill there are a father and son duo that put together $15,000 rifles. From rendering bison bone ash for color case hardening, to carving solid planks of exotic wood into beautiful stocks, to building parts and heat treating them by hand. Those guys are the real-fkn-deal gunsmiths. The father once built a $75,000 rifle. He's a legend. Cracks me up, here in Alaska somebody splurts out some silly duracoat on a few cheap AR-15 parts, puts it together and calls himself a "gunsmith".

Anyhoo, 2 minute walk up the hill, I'd probably have modified a cheap set of dies five minutes later.

Got it. Thank you. Called Jess but his voicemail box is full. Might just send him the gun with a note.

One thing that Jesse did, that really impresses me, is that he made the shoulder area of the chamber real tight during finish reaming. Right where the little neck turns to the body of the case. If you were to rechamber full-power, once-fired cases, they actually have some slight resistance right on the last 1/8" of the lever stroke. Dmn good job he does.

You gonna do a 400 whelen up?

Not sure Judd, either the 400 Whelen or the cartridge Mainer did sounds pretty darned cool.

I’ll look a bit. It’s almost cheating sending a rifle to Jess cause they come back so quick.

Haha for sure!! I got a dandy model 88 308 I was thing 338 federal, but gonna do a 358 I think.... I'll have Jess do er up...

That's a dandy guy.

Thanks Judman.

It's one heck of a rifle. Kinda torn right now. Had a nice offer on it.

I bought it to hunt grizzly and cape buff. Got the grizzly with my 30-06 (of all things) and not sure I'll ever go for Cape Buff.

But, it's the finest rifle I've ever owned, Built by Michael Scherz. Very nice rifle.

Regards, Guy