One guy...no the whole ARMY SF...these are their DUTY guns issued by UNCLE SAM...
That said they are now having to tradition to 9mm... Were supposed to be getting Glock 19s but now it looks like they will all be getting SIGS... Will find out for sure when I talk to his dad...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
One guy...no the whole ARMY SF...these are their DUTY guns issued by UNCLE SAM...
That said they are now having to tradition to 9mm... Were supposed to be getting Glock 19s but now it looks like they will all be getting SIGS... Will find out for sure when I talk to his dad...
Bob
When I retired in late 2013 most of the battalions in SF Groups were issued the Beretta M9 as the standard sidearm. Regular SF (Green Berets) do not get near as much leeway in choice of weapons as popularly thought.
With that said each SF Group also has a battalion that has a mission which allows them access to a wider variety of stuff. Those battalions were using the Glock as a primary sidearm.
Maybe you aren’t smart enough to understand my point.
I understand what you think your point is, which is why you are so foolish.
BS, if I as well as other can shoot deer or pigs with a 9mm or 45 and see a difference then it is there, so asking one experience is not in your words foolish.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Dont kid yourself into thinking the agencies dont pick the 9mm based on cost and the fact the females and she-males dont shoot nor get their hands around the bigger ones as well. Its not because they unanimously figured the 9 was just as good. Most in law enforcement dont shoot much nor shoot well. A 9mm is the best choice for the vast majority of them and cheapest. Doesnt make it the best nor the one you should carry.
Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
I knew that without all the above drivel. And look at how dumb I am or appear to be.
Clue........... Hint..........
Originally Posted by Tradmark
Dont kid yourself into thinking the agencies dont pick the 9mm based on cost and the fact the females and she-males dont shoot nor get their hands around the bigger ones as well. Its not because they unanimously figured the 9 was just as good. Most in law enforcement dont shoot much nor shoot well. A 9mm is the best choice for the vast majority of them and cheapest. Doesnt make it the best nor the one you should carry.
I AM THE GOOD FRIEND OF RENEGADE50. HE MENTORS ME. HE PUNISHES ME WHEN I AM WRONG. HE CALLS ME OUT WHEN I AM LYING. HE CARES GREATLY ABOUT ME.
So you know a guy who knows a guy who carries one pistol because he's the boss and can do whatever he wants.....And that is supposed to prove the general rule wrong?
Give me a break.
...and just for your edification...this wasn't "a guy who knows a guy who carries one pistol because he's the boss and can do whatever he wants". ...I've known this person since he was a baby as it's one of my best friend's sons who I helped to teach to shoot.. I also attended his wedding in Nashville four years ago and got to talk to him and many of his men about gun stuff... He's also one of the youngest and lowest ranked officers to ever win the McCarther Leadership Award.
Maybe it's you who should give me a break....
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
This controversy will never end for sure. But hitting is always ignored so that is one reason for the nine with more shots then ever needed. Same for a .380 even if it stop a man, you can't hit where it counts unless he is cutting you with his knife. Best nine I ever shot was a war relic, P38, even a finely fit Luger did not out shoot it. Sad to say I have had white house security guys here and the cops from Dulles and the air marshal. The best was a cop from Dulles with a 1911. The rest would miss their foot. Head shots are a joke with most and you might get an ear if lucky. Recoil really affects many and I would stick out a gun to most and none would even try with eyes that went blank. It is why the .41 went away for police, kicks. There are some like steel shooters that can hit and others that never miss but 99.9% of those that carry just put others in danger. Carry your toy that you need to remember to point 3' right and 2' high to hit and tell me your gun is deadly. False sense of security just because you have a gun. My daughter was out for Easter and she shot my 1911 to print 2" at 25 yards. She learned to shoot young and could break a bottle at 75 yards with a flint lock, was a Marine and won the trophy and out shot all the men too. Show me a 2" group at 25 with any nine or .380 off hand and I will cook a steak for you. A wound channel in jello does not work. Even if a jerk has breathed in or out will change results according to air in the lungs. You forget air will compress but liquids do not. Jello is close to meat but do you shoot meat? Do you hit the heart or a leg? Is animal hunting a comparison? It sure is. The difference is a man will feel pain and fear he is going to die so that can end it. A normal man will stop if shot in the foot. If drugged to the moon and feels no pain you will be dead unless you expend the whole mag into him. You will miss most of them anyway. It also goes to hunting rifles for deer where a guy needs a 30 round magazine. Yeah I hear it here, bang, bang for 5 minutes since they cant hit a thing. Some day a nine magazine can rest on the ground or a Glock will have a 100 round drum. It comes down to internet shooters that play games and no experience at all. All of you will rake me and others over the coals and call us names and claim a .22 is a good bear defense because you can shoot him between the eyes at full charge. Not a thought if the bullet will penetrate the skull. NOT! The brown stripe through the woods only means you should have pepper spray to season you. The only thing I know if a perp was breaking in my door he will bag of muck and to hell with my car since I can buy another. I will never take my .22, .380 or anything less then the .44 mag or the 12 gauge. I have the AMT 9MM win mag and it is nothing more then a .357 in the end. But it will sit as I take more. Little gun pushers live in internet games.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that you'll shoot duty .40 rounds as well as you will duty 9mm rounds.
You and I both know that when you start shooting for real, with scored hits shot against the clock, the 9mm is easier to shoot well than the .40 S&W. Most people who don't believe that have never actually tested themselves against a known hard standard with both calibers.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
This controversy will never end for sure. But hitting is always ignored so that is one reason for the nine with more shots then ever needed. Same for a .380 even if it stop a man, you can't hit where it counts unless he is cutting you with his knife. Best nine I ever shot was a war relic, P38, even a finely fit Luger did not out shoot it. Sad to say I have had white house security guys here and the cops from Dulles and the air marshal. The best was a cop from Dulles with a 1911. The rest would miss their foot. Head shots are a joke with most and you might get an ear if lucky. Recoil really affects many and I would stick out a gun to most and none would even try with eyes that went blank. It is why the .41 went away for police, kicks. There are some like steel shooters that can hit and others that never miss but 99.9% of those that carry just put others in danger. Carry your toy that you need to remember to point 3' right and 2' high to hit and tell me your gun is deadly. False sense of security just because you have a gun. My daughter was out for Easter and she shot my 1911 to print 2" at 25 yards. She learned to shoot young and could break a bottle at 75 yards with a flint lock, was a Marine and won the trophy and out shot all the men too. Show me a 2" group at 25 with any nine or .380 off hand and I will cook a steak for you. A wound channel in jello does not work. Even if a jerk has breathed in or out will change results according to air in the lungs. You forget air will compress but liquids do not. Jello is close to meat but do you shoot meat? Do you hit the heart or a leg? Is animal hunting a comparison? It sure is. The difference is a man will feel pain and fear he is going to die so that can end it. A normal man will stop if shot in the foot. If drugged to the moon and feels no pain you will be dead unless you expend the whole mag into him. You will miss most of them anyway. It also goes to hunting rifles for deer where a guy needs a 30 round magazine. Yeah I hear it here, bang, bang for 5 minutes since they cant hit a thing. Some day a nine magazine can rest on the ground or a Glock will have a 100 round drum. It comes down to internet shooters that play games and no experience at all. All of you will rake me and others over the coals and call us names and claim a .22 is a good bear defense because you can shoot him between the eyes at full charge. Not a thought if the bullet will penetrate the skull. NOT! The brown stripe through the woods only means you should have pepper spray to season you. The only thing I know if a perp was breaking in my door he will bag of muck and to hell with my car since I can buy another. I will never take my .22, .380 or anything less then the .44 mag or the 12 gauge. I have the AMT 9MM win mag and it is nothing more then a .357 in the end. But it will sit as I take more. Little gun pushers live in internet games.
I can keep all my shots inside a pie plate at 25 yards, off hand, with my Glock 17, no problem. Two inches? Forget about it.
Silly stuff abounds. I train many new shooters with revolvers and I never, ever start small. I give them the largest according to what I see. A lady might get a .44 mag while a big man will start with my .500. It comes around to "NOT BAD AT ALL" and they start to get real accurate. Now when we drop to the piss ant guns all fear is gone and they shoot so good it makes me proud. What is a .40? It must break your fingers! I NEVER start with a .22 because every step up has recoil anticipation that is hard to cure. Get rid of fear first. A lady that shoots a .22 will cringe at a .357. Sorry you are all wrong. When she can shoot a .44 she will shoot anything. Training has always been wrong. Give police a .38 SP over a smaller gun and then go to the .357 and he flinches so bad he can't hit a thing and then bring in the .41 Mag and the world ends. Most comments about the .45 ACP are recoil related but the cartridge has almost none. It is the heavy slide coming back to the stop. OOPS your hand went up. You shoot a .223 good but what do you do with a .460? Internet shooters abound without any trigger pulls at all, Youtube makes experts. Bye the way I shoot for real as does Whitworth and JWP.
This controversy will never end for sure. But hitting is always ignored so that is one reason for the nine with more shots then ever needed. Same for a .380 even if it stop a man, you can't hit where it counts unless he is cutting you with his knife. Best nine I ever shot was a war relic, P38, even a finely fit Luger did not out shoot it. Sad to say I have had white house security guys here and the cops from Dulles and the air marshal. The best was a cop from Dulles with a 1911. The rest would miss their foot. Head shots are a joke with most and you might get an ear if lucky. Recoil really affects many and I would stick out a gun to most and none would even try with eyes that went blank. It is why the .41 went away for police, kicks. There are some like steel shooters that can hit and others that never miss but 99.9% of those that carry just put others in danger. Carry your toy that you need to remember to point 3' right and 2' high to hit and tell me your gun is deadly. False sense of security just because you have a gun. My daughter was out for Easter and she shot my 1911 to print 2" at 25 yards. She learned to shoot young and could break a bottle at 75 yards with a flint lock, was a Marine and won the trophy and out shot all the men too. Show me a 2" group at 25 with any nine or .380 off hand and I will cook a steak for you. A wound channel in jello does not work. Even if a jerk has breathed in or out will change results according to air in the lungs. You forget air will compress but liquids do not. Jello is close to meat but do you shoot meat? Do you hit the heart or a leg? Is animal hunting a comparison? It sure is. The difference is a man will feel pain and fear he is going to die so that can end it. A normal man will stop if shot in the foot. If drugged to the moon and feels no pain you will be dead unless you expend the whole mag into him. You will miss most of them anyway. It also goes to hunting rifles for deer where a guy needs a 30 round magazine. Yeah I hear it here, bang, bang for 5 minutes since they cant hit a thing. Some day a nine magazine can rest on the ground or a Glock will have a 100 round drum. It comes down to internet shooters that play games and no experience at all. All of you will rake me and others over the coals and call us names and claim a .22 is a good bear defense because you can shoot him between the eyes at full charge. Not a thought if the bullet will penetrate the skull. NOT! The brown stripe through the woods only means you should have pepper spray to season you. The only thing I know if a perp was breaking in my door he will bag of muck and to hell with my car since I can buy another. I will never take my .22, .380 or anything less then the .44 mag or the 12 gauge. I have the AMT 9MM win mag and it is nothing more then a .357 in the end. But it will sit as I take more. Little gun pushers live in internet games.
I can keep all my shots inside a pie plate at 25 yards, off hand, with my Glock 17, no problem. Two inches? Forget about it.
But it is OK. I never bash anyone but am bashed over and over. It is how you load, what you load and what the gun can do and nothing personal. You are doing good so I will not say bad. I have never said bad about a single person in my life but only a process that is wrong or dangerous. I might care for safety most and accuracy and results next but to see JWP and me as the same is an honor so thanks to all. I do not care what is said, experience is what is needed. It is not TV. Yeah a BG drops at a shot on the run and everyone has a full auto. Two 1911's at once to kill every BG. Fantasy world for most gun owners. Now the net with experts that can't hit a barn wall from inside.
I know a guy whom I have known forever that knows a guy who is married to a woman whose brother is married to a girl whose father once said that exact same thing.
Well now that BFR has chimed in I feel completely convinced that the 45ACP as handed down by Lord Cooper far exceeds anything else offered in mere mortal calibers. And yet people are stopped from their dastardly deeds daily with the piss poor 9mm and even the 380! For you guys from Rio Linda just because it recoils more does not make it a more manly gun and poking a hole at 1000 ft per second thru the pump will result in the same outcome be it .35 inches or .45 inches in hole diameter.
I know a guy whom I have known forever that knows a guy who is married to a woman whose brother is married to a girl whose father once said that exact same thing.
Well now that BFR has chimed in I feel completely convinced that the 45ACP as handed down by Lord Cooper far exceeds anything else offered in mere mortal calibers. And yet people are stopped from their dastardly deeds daily with the piss poor 9mm and even the 380! For you guys from Rio Linda just because it recoils more does not make it a more manly gun and poking a hole at 1000 ft per second thru the pump will result in the same outcome be it .35 inches or .45 inches in hole diameter.
How do you guarantee you will put a round through the pump?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
It's easy, fire off a cylinder of .460 Magnums first and then reload with the plain old .45's. Those will be like shooting a .22 LR. Two inch groups offhand at 25 yards will be EZ PZ. Shooting at a bad guy is a piece of cake then.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that you'll shoot duty .40 rounds as well as you will duty 9mm rounds.
You and I both know that when you start shooting for real, with scored hits shot against the clock, the 9mm is easier to shoot well than the .40 S&W. Most people who don't believe that have never actually tested themselves against a known hard standard with both calibers.
..what "clock"...are we talking gunfighting here or IDPA...
95% of civilian gun fights take place in the 3-5 YARD area...so you are going to tell me that your "average" shooter who can handle a Glock 19 just fine can't put 2-3 rounds into a target just about as fast with a Glock 23...
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Don't kid yourself into thinking that you'll shoot duty .40 rounds as well as you will duty 9mm rounds.
You and I both know that when you start shooting for real, with scored hits shot against the clock, the 9mm is easier to shoot well than the .40 S&W. Most people who don't believe that have never actually tested themselves against a known hard standard with both calibers.
..what "clock"...are we talking gunfighting here or IDPA...
95% of civilian gun fights take place in the 3-5 YARD area...so you are going to tell me that your "average" shooter who can handle a Glock 19 just fine can't put 2-3 rounds into a target just about as fast with a Glock 23...
To be really effective, we apparently need 45 slugs that break into a couple of 9mm slugs, so our split times would improve and the gunfight stopwatch guy could award us extra points.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
