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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,212 |
Just because they resulted in a dead animal doesn't mean they performed well. Sierra bullets have produced some atrocious wounds on animals I have shot them with, even with somewhat big caliber, heavier bullets such as the .308" 180 GameKing, especially when impact velocity is high.
Slow them down, shoot them out of a .30-30 or something like that and they'll be fine I am sure, but they're not for me and my normal hunting rifles.
I have also found them to be like Nosler bullets, in that they're normally accurate out to X yards, then their accuracy goes to hell, I presume because their internal concentricity (or lack of) causes them to wobble like a Marine on liberty once they slow down to a certain point.
The 63 SMP is the sole exception for me, out of my .22 hi power. I believe it is a varminter bullet though, not a GameKing or Pro-Hunter and I sure as hell don't shoot it long range. Having run thousands of Sierra bullets over a Juenke I completely disagree on concentricity being a Sierra problem. They simply are as good as they come. The old screw-machine Partitions are the only ones close. Also, like any stabilization issue, it shows up from the start if it is there. Run a thousand Core-Lokts over the Juenke and watch how the tiny handful of perfect ones shoot compared to the average... Could be, I have never played with a Juenke. I have however had most all Sierras I have played with be nice and accurate out to a particular distance, then they turn into shotgun patterns. In the same rifle(s), other bullets of the same weight and length have remained accurate at that particular distance and beyond. Why I don't know, but that's been my experience.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
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I'm far from being rainman so I will never have one of those machines At this time we only know of two people capable of assembling this meter and making it work. Mr. Juenke and the BulletDoctor. The skill level necessary to assemble these kits is at Rainman level. So if you are looking at purchasing one of these kits, make sure you got Rainman skills. We have included in this website an electrical diagram of how the meter head, circuit board, dials and switches are connected to each other. Before considering purchasing this kit, study the diagram closely make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into. We will not be able to help you if you can't get it working. http://www.bulletinspector.com/
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,499
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,499 |
Just because they resulted in a dead animal doesn't mean they performed well. Sierra bullets have produced some atrocious wounds on animals I have shot them with, even with somewhat big caliber, heavier bullets such as the .308" 180 GameKing, especially when impact velocity is high.
Slow them down, shoot them out of a .30-30 or something like that and they'll be fine I am sure, but they're not for me and my normal hunting rifles.
I have also found them to be like Nosler bullets, in that they're normally accurate out to X yards, then their accuracy goes to hell, I presume because their internal concentricity (or lack of) causes them to wobble like a Marine on liberty once they slow down to a certain point.
The 63 SMP is the sole exception for me, out of my .22 hi power. I believe it is a varminter bullet though, not a GameKing or Pro-Hunter and I sure as hell don't shoot it long range. I saw this first hand last year when I was working a load up for my 270 winchester. I was set on using 150gr partitions I was going to go "old" school for my sheep hunt. Man those things would group phenomenal at 100yds. Then I moved out too 200 ydsand 300yds and it fell apart. I then picked up some 145 eld-x stuffed the case full of rl26 shot out to 300yds to verify my bdc I shot 1 1/2 group. I should of took a picture of it. I need to go dig around and find the target. I also was going to use a 130gr Sierra btsp same thing great groups at 100yds but 4 inch groups at 300yds. Anyhow that's how I ended up using 145 eld-x in my 270
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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Way too many variables in the system to be certain what causes that sort of thing... but it is NOT the bullet suddenly going unstable or wandering as a function of the bullet.
Among the suspects would be parallax in the sighting system, number one.
A poor fit between reticle and target at the longer range can create issues both because of the physical characteristics of the optics and target and because of eye variations in different people.
Unseen weather at the longer distance creating air movement...
And many more, but bullets are not the problem.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,085 |
That's for sure! A bullet doesn't just suddenly become out of balance because it has slowed down a thousand feet per second.
There can be some challenges transitioning into sub-sonic velocity, less than 1225 fps, but that doesn't occur until waaaaay beyond 300 yards.
Ted
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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All tested on the same day up at talkeetna 1000yd range..
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 93
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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The PHs I used 10-20 years ago were cheap and accurate, but I'd never use them on anything bigger than deer--and even then only if the deer was broadside. Unless Sierra's done something since then to make them hold together better and penetrate deeper, I'll continue to use something tougher like Accubonds.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2009
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Bullet entered the opposite shoulder and exited here. 7rem mag 160 gameking 75 or 100 yard shot ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/YCshBb9f/6-BDB42-A4-70-A3-44-BA-8660-19-D67-FD3-E4-FD.png) Photoshop, and you making a 100 yd shot....... pffftttt...................... Ok.. Well.. He was in bow range 
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
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Ted, I've used the 215 Game Kings in my 338 Federal quite extensively. They shot great in that rifle and performance was stellar. I've taken a couple bison and a few moose/caribou with them. I wasn't pushing them real fast but in my option they are hard to beat at 338 federal velocities.
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
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I’ve had good results on bears and caribou with the 150BTSP .277 and the 165 GkHP .308. Launched from a 270wcf and a couple different 30/06s.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,212 |
Way too many variables in the system to be certain what causes that sort of thing... but it is NOT the bullet suddenly going unstable or wandering as a function of the bullet.
Among the suspects would be parallax in the sighting system, number one.
A poor fit between reticle and target at the longer range can create issues both because of the physical characteristics of the optics and target and because of eye variations in different people.
Unseen weather at the longer distance creating air movement...
And many more, but bullets are not the problem. I am way more of a hunter than a shooter, and certainly am no physicist, so I honestly have no idea why my experience with them is what it is. I don't think parallax or different wind conditions have been the issue...as other bullets out of the same rifles and scopes at the same range sessions have grouped just fine at distances way beyond where the Sierras (and Noslers) would start going to hell. Why Sierra bullets do this escapes me and I will bow to others with more shooting experience, but I do believe it is the bullets, for whatever reason.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,212 |
That's for sure! A bullet doesn't just suddenly become out of balance because it has slowed down a thousand feet per second.
There can be some challenges transitioning into sub-sonic velocity, less than 1225 fps, but that doesn't occur until waaaaay beyond 300 yards.
Ted Good point. Those bullets go sub sonic way past where I am shooting at. I have absolutely zero idea why Sierras do this (to me at least), but they do at ranges that other bullets don't.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
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Not to go on too big of a tangent here (as I honestly don't know), but if bullets don't become destabilized as they slow down to a certain point both in velocity and (more importantly) RPM, but still stay transonic, why do twist rates matter? Shouldn't a slow twist barrel stabilize a given bullet the same as a fast twist barrel, as long as the bullet is transonic since RPM slows down as the bullet slows down too right? I was thinking that when a bullet's RPM slowed down at some point it would start to destabilize and wobble, regardless if it was still transonic or not.
I hate to bring so much gun gak into the conversation, but am genuinely curious.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,740
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,740 |
I was always under the impression sierra bullets were by far the most accurate.
The game kings were boat tails, pro hunters flat base.
They weren't the toughest just the most consistent and uniform.
I have harvested elk with them outta a 300 savage, and yes they came apart.
But to answer the original posters question, one is a boat tail one a flat base.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Posts: 7,740
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,740 |
As a side note sierras reloading book is very large and informative.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633 |
Not to go on too big of a tangent here (as I honestly don't know), but if bullets don't become destabilized as they slow down to a certain point both in velocity and (more importantly) RPM, but still stay transonic, why do twist rates matter? Shouldn't a slow twist barrel stabilize a given bullet the same as a fast twist barrel, as long as the bullet is transonic since RPM slows down as the bullet slows down too right? I was thinking that when a bullet's RPM slowed down at some point it would start to destabilize and wobble, regardless if it was still transonic or not.
I hate to bring so much gun gak into the conversation, but am genuinely curious. To start, I think you misunderstand "transonic" which (in this situation) is the condition of slowing down to the speed of sound. When they go transonic, as Ted mentioned they can destablize. Rotational velocity slows far less than linear velocity. Bullets actually get more stable as they go downrange. Slow twist barrels do not rotate long bullets as much as fast twist and since bullet length is a huge factor in stability longer bullets need faster twist rates.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633 |
That's for sure! A bullet doesn't just suddenly become out of balance because it has slowed down a thousand feet per second.
There can be some challenges transitioning into sub-sonic velocity, less than 1225 fps, but that doesn't occur until waaaaay beyond 300 yards.
Ted Good point. Those bullets go sub sonic way past where I am shooting at. I have absolutely zero idea why Sierras do this (to me at least), but they do at ranges that other bullets don't. Your situation is unusual if only Sierra bullets do that, but it is not a bullet stability issue.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633 |
The PHs I used 10-20 years ago were cheap and accurate, but I'd never use them on anything bigger than deer--and even then only if the deer was broadside. Unless Sierra's done something since then to make them hold together better and penetrate deeper, I'll continue to use something tougher like Accubonds. I would use Sierra seconds before I would use Accubond firsts... I have never seen an Accubond exit hole.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,633 |
All tested on the same day up at talkeetna 1000yd range.. I do not doubt your data at all. I do doubt the conclusion you came to about cause. If a betting man did not bet on parallax he would lose this bet more often than not.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,740
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,740 |
I find it interesting..........
Any caliber is ok, you just gotta be accurate.
Sierra bullets ( my impression) strives on accuracy.........allegedly the most important point.
But not good enough.
Can't lose 4 winning?
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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