Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors What else can I do?

Got a 1915 22hp g about a year ago, Emailed back and forth with gnoahh for some tips to get started reloading for it. The first 20 shots or so, some of the 70 grain Hornadys were tumbling through the target. Shot better with the 65 grain buffalo bullets. Prior to the first shot I cleaned the bore with hope's ten passes, looks a little rough but as I said the shots were mostly straight thru, except for 3 or 4 of the 70 grain Hornady.. So over the winter I went at the bore to try to get it to pristine. Tried wipe out, let it soak for anywhere from 15 minutes to overnight, cleaned up quite a bite but it's still a little rough in the grooves.The lands are clean looking, just a lot of build-up in the grooves. OK, tried Kroil, letting it soak up to three days in a plugged barrel. it gets minimally better but its not pristine, yet. Local gun shop guy sees a big difference, but agrees it's not the best. Went to my other gun guy, who used to work for Remington and he looks at it and says the build-up is caused by the old gunpowders used in the early part of the century. He says drill it and resleeve to 224. about 400 smackers.
I stumble around and go back to Hoppes, Kroil, wipeout, brake fluid, carb cleaner, and almost anything else I can think of, it seems to be marginally better but now more bullets tumble than not.
Just for shi** and giggles, a.224 bullet will drop right through the barrel, .228s won't start in the barrel without some tapping to go thru and have slight rifling marks on them when tappd out, I've tried to get a decent picture of the barrel but no luck with my phone camera.
Anybody got any ideas?

IMHO all that cleaning is not going to do anything positive. If you’re unhappy with it, sell it and look for another.

I agree, if you're not "enjoying the hunt" for an effective load, then you might want to start your search for a proven shooter. Gnoahhh is a vast resource of knowledge and experience, so You're on the right road there. I'd try the 55g or 60g BA bullets, then start experimenting with cast bullets, before giving up

My 250 and 22HP have flyers after I clean the barrel. But, it only takes 2-3 shots and everything tightens back up, no tumblers. All I've shot through mine so far are the 71 gr Norma's, with reformed 30-30 brass, no tumblers. I shot a nice 8 point WV mountain deer with it this year. I seem to remember someone else having trouble with the Hornady's, but could be mistaken.

Interesting, I would agree with poconojack on the cleaning. I think that is actually making the situation worse. I just tried fitting a calipered diameter .223 bullet in the muzzle of my 22 hi power. It will not push beyond the ogive with heavy thumb pressure. Out of curiosity, what distance were you getting the tumbling at?

Eric

If a .224 bullet falls in the bore you gotcherseff some problems amigo!

I would have suggested fire lapping..... but this little tid bit makes that a moot point. Like urinating into a stiff headwind. Cut your losses And take PoconoJacks advise.

I would try the 70gr bullets from Schroeder bullets out of Commiefornia. They mic at .227. Most .228’s or .227’s mic at .226 or under. And they are the right length for the 22hp. Send me a pm and i will send you a few. I will send you a few of the 65gr cast bullets i use for plinking also.

Joe

First off, that isn't "buildup caused by gunpowder from a century ago" whoever said that may have worked for Remington, but what did he do there? Security guard, accountant, company president? I'll bet a dollar to a donut hole it is cupro-nickel* fouling from old timey bullets. That stuff is pure nasty to remove from a barrel and I'm not surprised that none of those home remedies touched it much. The old timers used Stronger Ammonia, the pure killer stuff, to dissolve their cupro-nickel fouling but that stuff is nigh impossible for mere mortals to lay their hands on anymore. (The drill was to plug the bore, fill it with ammonia, let sit 10-15 minutes, dump it out and immediately flush with hot water and then oil the bejapers out of it.) If you can actually lay hands on some, for God's sake don't do it indoors, and wear a respirator. I ignored my own advice once and the stuff knocked me out cold (I did it in the bathroom). My then-wife dragged me out by my feet and revived me. But I got the cupro-nickel fouling out of that Springfield barrel.

Get some modern copper fouling remover like Barnes CR-10 or Sweet's 7.62 Solvent or any other solvent with a high ammonia content, follow directions to a T, and you'll make progress getting the bore cleaned. It'll probably still take a while though. That fouling is some kind of tenacious. (No wonder the world switched to gilding metal for bullet jackets.)

As for the "expert's" advice re: reaming the bore and lining with a .224 liner- good luck finding a knowledgeable smith to do it. Protocol has it that it's a no-no to line a bore for a higher pressure cartridge like this one. I would walk away from any smith that said he would do it.

Could be the bore was accidentally made a skinch overize to begin with. Remember these were built back in the days of analog machinery operated by humans, so anything is possible. It could also exacerbate bullet metal fouling- hot gasses torching past the sides of the bullet and melting the jackets. Were it me, after I had the bore all spic-and-span and it proved to really be oversize, I would secure a 60 grain bullet mold that produced oversize bullets (may need to go the custom route) and be happy with it as a cast bullet shooter forever after. Unless you have a source for .23 caliber jacketed bullets in your hip pocket.

No small wonder the Hornady 70 grain spire points shot poorly. They are too long to be reliably stabilized in the 1-12" twists of our guns. (Exceptions are oddball twisted guns, note the comment about 100+ year old machinery above, and where the bullets are fired- they'll work better at higher elevations than they will at sea level due to thinner air. Air temperature and humidity plays a role too.) I maintain that a Savage .22HP shooter that gets decent accuracy when shooting Hornady 70's would undoubtedly get outstanding accuracy if he switched to shorter bullets.

* cupro-nickel bullet jackets were made of an alloy of copper and nickel, heavy on the nickel, unlike modern gilding metal which is essentially copper with a bit of zinc added- any more zinc added and it would be called "brass".

100+ year old powders weren't any worse than modern powders as far as fouling buildup goes. The old guys dealt with it with a lot of snake oil solutions all of which worked to one degree or another, but remember also they were dealing with poisonous primers that we are immune from. The protocol for cleaning a gun back then was to flush/swab the chlorate salts deposited by those primers in the bore with hot water, soapy or not, and then wiping dry and oiling.

if you cast, try paper patching a few to see if you still tumble or keyhole. you may need a slightly larger expander button to get the patched bullet seated, though if you use one wrap of onion skin paper you should be good to go.
jm2cents worth

That's a good idea. I never thought of that. Been meaning to try paper patching cast bullets in rifles for decades but never got around to it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and all that.

the lesson here is DON'T listen to anyone but the campfire guys, as per the answers...

A 22HP should have a .220” bore and .008” grooves. Maybe .221” & .007”... Either way, If a .224” bulletin slides right thru, the bore has significant wear.

Cast bullets might be best answer, at a guess. Gnoahh is the go-to guy.

played with patched just enough to be interested. helped with a '76 in 40/65

Trade it for a 250 or 300

Problem solved....

...what many of us are thinking.

Another option to try is to find a buddy that powder coats and try powder coating some of the cast bullets; it will add diameter to the bullet. Sometimes they do get too large in diameter for the throat and chambering becomes an issue.

Gary, I thought I heard the Horandy's were too long, should I send him some of my Norma's to give a try? They shoot well in mine.

First off, it makes sense to me that a .224 would slide thru the barrel of a .228 barrel gun. Gary, I will try to find some Barnes CR-10 or Sweet's 7.62 Solvent, that may help. As I said, the barrel is much better now that it was when I started, but it is far from "pristine" and I really don't expect it to ever be perfect, it's a hundred years old, I would question those of you who say the barrel is shot, as the lands are very clearly seen, and as mentioned they do show on a .228 bullet when pushed through the barrel. It's the build-up in the grooves I'm chasing. Joe if you can, I'll try some of those bullets you mentioned.
Selling it is an option, but I'm a stubborn cuss and would like to get it to shoot a little more consistently. I am looking for a 250 99, have been for 3 years but they're pretty rare here in the north country, I've seen one and the guy want 1700 for it...out of my range, I own shooters not collectors. I have also a 1913 303 g, a 1922 30-30 g, a 300 from 1950 and a 243 from 1964, all decent shooter grade, want a 250 and when shows up foe less than 700 I'll probably buy it. But I really want to enjoy this 22 hp. I should add, all shots are at 50 or 25 yards so far, and even with the tumbling the bullets are in a 6-8 inch circle. now I'm off to find some CR 10 or sweets, thanks for the help guys.
And, I should add for Gary, I've tried the shortened 70 grain jig you sent along and it seems to help with the tumbling but they do still tumble.