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If you read the thread you would have noticed that I have set my max pressure at 43k CUP instead of SAMMI 50k. I have no fears of blowing the gun up
......the occasional hunter wielding a hopelessly inaccurate rifle, living by the fantastical rule that this cartridge can deliver the goods, regardless of shot placement or rifle accuracy. The correct term for this is minute of ego.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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More of the issue is working hardening of the lug, it shearing off, with the bolt coming back into your face. I shot one in 30/30 growing up, and the rifle was plenty accurate.
Be safe Jevyod, be safe.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 88
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 88 |
I shoot a 340 in 222. It's been a great groundhog gun. After playing with the barrel band tension it shoots 3/4 inch groups with factory Fiocchi 50 grain vmax. I have no fear of being injured using a 340. I use the b square mount scope mount. It's not pretty, but it shoots.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The designer never gave metal fatigue a second thought.
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Almost certainly neither did Mauser before he designed his bolt actions. . Have you seen examples of fatigue failure on these actions? Documented cases? Where have the cracks appeared? How many load cycles? Do you have any good pics of the fracture surfaces? Have you done any crack testing (MPI, dye penetrant) on these actions?
More of the issue is working hardening of the lug, it shearing off, with the bolt coming back into your face.
Again, any actual examples? Work hardening required repeated plastic deformation - a fair bit of it too, to be significant, so how much plastic deformation had there been of the lug before failure? What of the root of the bolt handle? Got any pics?
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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sell it ,like has been said it might bring a a decent price ? and just buy a new normal cartridge ? its a thought ?
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Campfire Regular
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Here is a picture of the rifle in question. I kinda dig it! Sorry to those who think I ruined a fine rifle. I am 34, not 84
......the occasional hunter wielding a hopelessly inaccurate rifle, living by the fantastical rule that this cartridge can deliver the goods, regardless of shot placement or rifle accuracy. The correct term for this is minute of ego.
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,188
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,188 |
Other side
......the occasional hunter wielding a hopelessly inaccurate rifle, living by the fantastical rule that this cartridge can deliver the goods, regardless of shot placement or rifle accuracy. The correct term for this is minute of ego.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,938 Likes: 16
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Regular
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Yup I suppose my choice of wording left some to be desired!! I should have said some will fuss that I took an ugly worthless rifle and made it even more worthless and ugly!!
......the occasional hunter wielding a hopelessly inaccurate rifle, living by the fantastical rule that this cartridge can deliver the goods, regardless of shot placement or rifle accuracy. The correct term for this is minute of ego.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,163 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,163 Likes: 2 |
Throw it in a creek and take photos.then I couldn’t tell if it’s big schtick’s or your photos.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,324 Likes: 9 |
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I enjoy it when certain folks get all riled up. That's what quality entertainment is all about. Rusty
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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Yup I suppose my choice of wording left some to be desired!! I should have said some will fuss that I took an ugly worthless rifle and made it even more worthless and ugly!! It looks pretty good and you sound like you know what you're doing with it. Just enjoy it and ignore the negativity here.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
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Some years ago, a crochety old bird hunter & writer (George Bird Evans) bought a high dollar Purdey SxS. Decided that it did not fit him just right, so took a file to it, until it did. He did a nice job, but lots of traditionalist really cried the blues. When it belongs to you, you are free to do whatever you wish with it.
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years. It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone..... Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The designer never gave metal fatigue a second thought.
.
Almost certainly neither did Mauser before he designed his bolt actions. . Have you seen examples of fatigue failure on these actions? Documented cases? Where have the cracks appeared? How many load cycles? Do you have any good pics of the fracture surfaces? Have you done any crack testing (MPI, dye penetrant) on these actions?
More of the issue is working hardening of the lug, it shearing off, with the bolt coming back into your face.
Again, any actual examples? Work hardening required repeated plastic deformation - a fair bit of it too, to be significant, so how much plastic deformation had there been of the lug before failure? What of the root of the bolt handle? Got any pics? Hey keith, maybe you missed this. I am genuinely curious as to the basis of these claims. As a metallurgist I used to do quite a lot of failure investigation, and to be perfectly frank I have my doubts about your claims, but before dismissing them as BS I'd be happy to see the evidence, if you have any.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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I just wish there was an easy way to switch between CUP and PSI. Hodgdon uses CUP and Accurate uses PSI. Have you found Mr. Denton Bramwell's equation for calculating CUP >> PSI ? If you "goggle" (grin) CUP/PSI you'll find his treatise and EQUATION. He has talked about it here and I have the info but I also found it quite easily on the 'net'. Good Luck Prejudice runs deep as do personal opinions. On this rifle, I have NO opinion. I like the looks of what you did with it. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I really am fascinated by the cartridge but I've passed on a couple Savage 340V's now. Still waiting for a model 70 that isn't out of my price range.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
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In the example I mentioned, I cannot say whether or not there was any work hardening involved but the lug definitely failed. It did not fail on the first shot so metal fatigue was obviously in play. GD
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,220 |
That was my thought too. Kinda of like calling a Yugo a fine motor car. While it distresses me a little when I see a fine firearm irrevocably modified in such a way that its value is diminished, I understand that whoever owns a firearm has the right to do with it whatever he/she wishes to do.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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In the example I mentioned, I cannot say whether or not there was any work hardening involved but the lug definitely failed. It did not fail on the first shot so metal fatigue was obviously in play. GD Work hardening is unlikely, to say the least, as you'd have noticeable plastic deformation before failure in order to produce work-hardening - enough plastic deformation that the rifle would already be unserviceable. As well, just because it didn't fail the first time doesn't mean it was fatigue. There have been many examples of rifles which have failed after some period of service - sometimes years of service - because something has changed or gone wrong, such as an overload or failed case, but which failure has nothing to do with fatigue. I suspect that in the case you cited it was about rechambering to .307 and loading hot, pushing the pressures up well past what the rifle was designed for, rather than fatigue. It is also possible that there was more than one contributing factor. The appearance of the fracture surface is the key. With fatigue you'll see an area where the fatigue crack has grown progressively over a number of load cycles, before the remaining area is no longer sufficient to support the applied load and the crack proceeds to failure. It is quite distinctive. You can also pick up incipient fatigue failure by crack testing, before the piece has actually let go. due to the fact that the fatigue crack progresses gradually under the influence of multiple load cycles - and usually a lot of them, which is why it tends not to be a factor in sporting rifles. . You can also see a clear difference between that and say, brittle failure, or the effect of a defect, or an otherwise sound part which has been overstressed, eg by overloading. That is why good pics of the failed piece, and especially the fracture surfaces, would be so useful. Having said that, I'd also say that one swallow does not a summer make. These rifles were built to a price, but they were made for nearly 40 years. While I might not choose one for myself it seems to me that if the bloke who owns it is happy with it, and it shoots well enough to do the job he has for it, then that is really about all that matters. You example is a good one as to why you might not want to try pushing things past the design envelope, though it would be interesting to know a bit more about what might have caused the failure. The bloke who opened this question seems to be pretty clear on not being overly ambitious with loads though. I say good luck to him, and hope he knocks plenty of critters off with his rifle.
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