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The Osage averaged about 6’5 in height with seven footers and women well over six feet not being uncommon.

It appears the cannibalism thing was a rumor?

Tonkawa

Back when I was young, probably in lower grade school, but I do not know exactly when, I stayed overnight with a friend. He showed me a headstone for a family that was killed by the Fox and Sac Indians. It was not on their land but across the fence, in some woods, about 50 yards from the property line. That was the first that I had ever heard of this tribe of Indians, and it stuck in my memory. If the woods have not been cleared, I might be able to find the headstone. The land that my friends family owned has been put into fish ponds, and I have not been there in years. miles

If your "offer" was genuine, you would never have shared the info with anyone, and you would have contacted me yourself via PM. Rather, it was your surrogate who convinced you not to go-public more than you did.

I would rather die from cancer than accept any charity from you.

Naah, it was directly observed by Noah Smithwick (who got along very well with Indians) when as Bob relates they borrowed his neighbor's kettle, also observed by Ranald MacKenzie more than thirty years later when they guided his column against the Comanches during the Red River War.

Ummm... No.

My friend never suggested anything of the sort about go-public. Nothing. I also assure you I never contacted anyone about your information at all. Any inquiries at all came to me. Not vice versa.

We did discuss extending a helping hand to you because of your circumstances though. We were both on board with that.

Despite you previously calling us every name in the book, and disparaging both of us.

That is the difference in people with decency, and those that believe that everyone is out to hurt them.

Given your behavior here in just a short time, I sure don't blame you for being skeptical. But it is what it is. The offer was genuine alright.

To quote Mr. Smithwick from his book. Evolution of a State. ( still in print).

"Having fleeced off the flesh of the dead Comanche, they borrowed a big wash kettle from Puss Webber, into which they put the Comanche meat, together with a lot of corn and potatoes - the most revolting mess my eyes ever rested on."

He goes on to describe how all present simply dipped it out with their hands and consumed it. Then performed a scalp dance followed with a mock battle dance.

Yep and in combat they would sprint out from concealment, grab the tail of an opponent's horse and flip the horse over, Fehrenbach has it that when going against the Osages the Comanches would tie their horse's tails up short to guard against this eventuality.

The degree of sheer athleticism common to Indian warfare is often overlooked. Back East in the 1700's Iroquois warriors were travelling 600 miles on foot to wage war against the Cherokee and the dreaded Chickasaw, and vice versa. Black Hawk, of the 1830's Sac and Fox War, as a young man traveled twice alone through the land of the enemy Pawnee in order to pick a fight with a grizzly in hand to hand combat.

Here in Texas by that time we presume displaced Eastern Indian Tribes were more or less subdued by nature, but we have a story of a party of Delawares out hunting on foot, running two whole days in pursuit of a party of mounted Comanches that had killed one of their number, surprising the Comanches in their camp, and taking their vengeance.

Up in North Dakota there's a Mandan Indian Village museum featuring a beautifully painted buffalo robe. The owner of that robe lay in in concealment for six days in close proximity to a Chippewa Indian village, finally early on the sixth morning he sprang out of concealment to kill and scalp a mother and teenage daughter within full view of the enemy village, and succeeded in making his escape. All this painted on the robe, along with hte time he killed a famous Cheyenne warrior in a pre-arranged duel.

I thought it sad that all that effort, hardihood and endurance was expended for the purpose of killing a mother and daughter.

I met one of those tall Osage gals up in Oklahoma years ago.

She was a fun gal, and could country dance up a storm.

She was a bit over 6' tall. Said she was the shortest in her family.

The Osage are beautiful, statuesque, proud people. Not like other NA's I had known before.

Of course, there is no scale in this painting. But even so, the artist did a fine job of giving a sense of the hulking size of this Osage warrior.

During Colonel Parilla’s punitive expedition against the Taovaya’s and other northern tribes from Presidio San Luis de las Amarillas in 1757, he witnessed a Comanche "cacique" on horseback, leave the earthen fortified Taovaya village, armed with a French trade fusil followed by 4 or 5 warriors on foot all armed with anFrench fusil as his loaders. He would fire and a running warrior would exchange a loaded fusil for his empty one. Parilla goes on the explainthat he never had an empry gun in his hand for very long.

The indians kicked Spanish butt and captured their small 1 pounder cannon on a galloper carraige. They ended up returning this gun to the Spanish in Natchitoches Louisiana during a treaty visit in 1780! This was way after the Spanish had been granted Luisiana from the Bourbon French thru the Treay of Paris 1763. The Indians said they were just tired of hauling it around everywhere.

Well as you can see, the source was WIKI, so there you are . You should go in and edit but I bet they'll not allow it.

I have never come across a good volume on the Tonks, even Gwynn in his well written but unevenly researched Empire of the Summer Moon opens the book by singling out the Tonkawas as “always losing”.

Re: the Mississippi rifle, in its original incarnation it was a .54 caliber, 33 inch round-ball rifle with the then-common 1:48 twist. Essentially a plains rifle or Hawken in military garb. Apparently there were quantities on hand in Texas. They were the primary arm of RIP Ford’s Texas Rangers in the 1850’s (the 1851 Colt Navy revolver has yet to flood the state) and were also issued to the Tonkawas prior to Ford’s 1860 venture against the Comanches.

Here’s a really good link on the Mississippi rifle, note how many went directly into civilian hands, it really oughtta be right up there among the pantheon of famous arms of the West, prob’ly a lot more Mississippis than Hawkens for example....

https://www.historynet.com/mississippi-rifle-became-classic-western-arm.htm

kaywoodie and Birdwatcher - great reading!

Here ya go, Noah Smithwick's autobiography, as referenced by Kaywoodie, is still available in its entirety online.... Smithwick lived with the Comanches, the Lipan Apaches use to hang out at his blacksmith/gunsmith shop, and once he rode for three weeks with a party of Cherokees after Comanche horse thieves

http://www.lsjunction.com/olbooks/smithwic/otd.htm

Another great source is Texas Ranger Captain John Salmon Ford's collected memoirs, "RIP Ford's Texas". Much of it will seem familiar because McMurty borrowed liberally from Ford's career when he wrote "Lonesome Dove". Available used from $9 shipped on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

Both these guys were the real deal, but I gotta warn ya, reading either of these guys will shatter the stereotype of cold-blooded butchers of Indians settling Texas.

Tell ya what; please post your name, SSN#, DOB and mailing address on here and I'll send ya a copy

I’ve read both of those books Mike and highly recommend them.

Just ordered both, thanks guys.

Whatever you are smoking, is way too strong for you!

Reading empire of the summer moon now

Very interesting read

Empire Of The Summer Moon is a great read! I’m not sure however that it is very historically accurate though.