Example a Lehigh monometal flat point non expanding bullet same caliber same weight one fired at 950 FPS the other fired at 1400 FPS the faster bullet will produce more damage.
If that is your experience, I don't doubt you one bit.
My question was a bit different: Two .44 caliber bullets, 250 grain and 300 grain, same nose shape, equal meplat diameters, both hard cast and do not expand. Load each to however "hot" you are comfortable with, but each loaded as hot as the other. (Maybe different charge weights, maybe different powders, but each load is equal as far as how hard you are "leaning on the gun." This probably means equal peak chamber pressure.) The lighter bullet will be faster, correct? Assume that on the animal in question, and the angle of the shot, both bullets exit. So depth of penetration is "total." In this case, you will pick the lighter, faster bullet, because it will do more damage, correct?
But on a bigger animal, or a situation where you may have to take a poor angle shot, you might choose the heavier, slower bullet to ensure sufficient penetration, correct?
Not at all. The lighter bullet might exit before any energy is transmitted to internals,
Please explain. Are you saying that if the bullet goes through fast enough, there is less time for energy to be transmitted to the internal organs?
Yes, deer shot with my .45 Colt and a 335 gr bullet at 1160 FPS will drop deer fast and so will my C&B Ruger Old Army with a RB at 1100 fps. But the 45-70 revolver with the same weight bullet will lose deer and recovered will be 200 to 300 yards. No dwell time to transmit energy. Too fast or too heavy a bullet will not do the damage. The .44 has lost no deer. To believe speed kills better you must have a bullet to match. It is always the bullet in the end. You can lose deer with the .44 by shooting the wrong bullets too. A 180 as fast as it can go is a sad sack but a slower 300 is deadly. I am a firm believer in Dwell time or a slowing bullet to give energy with enough weight to penetrate.
Maybe you just cant shoot a 45/70 worth a crap and just hit em bad.
Better yet, while we are talking about silly magic; why dont you enlighten all the gents here about how your 475 linebaugh has half the drop with a 420 gr bullet as a 45/70 with a 435gr bullet at roughly the same speed. That one was a gem too bfrshooter!
All i can say is i am glad you werent ever in charge of anything important in your working career or the world would be a worse place for sure. You can argue with physics. You just cant ever win that argument!
Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
In self defense situations there is not a huge difference between the lethality of a .380 and the 44 magnum.
When did we stop talking about stopping an attack, and commence talking about lethality? The two are not the same.
My most often carried round is 9mm. But my observation on game is that the .45acp does more damage, and the .44mag does dramatically more damage - even on hares. Stats are useful, but IME, they don't account for outliers. I can't prove it statistically, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more damage is a good thing when that exception to the rule is in your face.
In self defense situations there is not a huge difference between the lethality of a .380 and the 44 magnum.
When did we stop talking about stopping an attack, and commence talking about lethality? The two are not the same.
My most often carried round is 9mm. But my observation on game is that the .45acp does more damage, and the .44mag does dramatically more damage - even on hares. Stats are useful, but IME, they don't account for outliers. I can't prove it statistically, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more damage is a good thing when that exception to the rule is in your face.
Could not agree more.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
There’s just not a tremendous difference in performance between common calibers.
Let me be clear on all of this. This is not my personal war on the 45 ACP or 44 magnum or whatever, but it is a look at really who can shoot what effectively. My wake up call to all of this was Shrapnel saying 6 rounds triggered into the dirt from a handgun that you cannot control will get you killed or something to that effect. Give one person a .380 and that person might be lethal with the weapon, give the same person a 45ACP and they might not be as effective. In short in my opinion all things need to be considered when discussing handgun effectiveness. In common calibers similar hits in similar places may not be tremendously different but at the higher end of the spectrum like a 44 magnum with a 180 grain hollow point it stands to reason that there has to be some difference in destruction. The real key in all of these studies is that a handgun that is effective for one person may not be for another and thus the .380 is not that much different than the 45ACP when considered across many many shootings. However we have to consider all the various bullets employed as well the variables are endless.
In the end however and much more important than any caliber war or any possible intelligent discussion on any topic, I really hope that BFR finds his lost post.
In the end however and much more important than any caliber war or any possible intelligent discussion on any topic, I really hope that BFR finds his lost post.
I agree with both JWP and Whitworth because they use the proper bullets. They also know I use proper for deer with each caliber. I have failed many times and it was always the bullet and never where the deer was hit. We learn by doing and not reading. Every single deer gets a necropsy to determine bullet results. If you think this is the wrong place for energy you might be wrong.
Yep I use hard cast with miniature parachutes on the hind end in place of the gascheck , ensuring the bullet spends the max amount of time in the animal , killing it the deadest . Transfer the hell outta that energy
Rabid Creedmoorians ring my doorbell ... as I open it a crack they speak : "Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior , 6.5Creed?"
Wtf are u talking about. I smell a load of bs. I sort of did the math and basically found in west virginia if you take and tag out 5 deer a year it would take a cool 40 years to even hit 200 deer, which is still under the amount you claim with just your flintlock rifle so exactly how many, with what, and how the f$ck have you shot that many, or is it really just bs. I know what i think.
Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
Wtf are u talking about. I smell a load of bs. I sort of did the math and basically found in west virginia if you take and tag out 5 deer a year it would take a cool 40 years to even hit 200 deer, which is still under the amount you claim with just your flintlock rifle so exactly how many, with what, and how the f$ck have you shot that many, or is it really just bs. I know what i think.
Ohio orchards and farms with unlimited tags for crop damage. Most deer donated to feed hungry as I did not have to pay processing. Now I have to pay so I take what I need and for neighbors. I hunted WV, Ohio, Mich and PA. Most states were 1 deer a year unless crop damage tags were had. One farmer here kills over 250 deer a year and throws them in a gully to rot. One pig farmer shot many a year to rot. Even in PA the farm I hunted was a kill free zone and any deer that stepped in the field was shot any time of year. They would gut shoot them to die in the woods so they did not have to drag them out. I had farms and orchards from Lake Erie to the river to hunt.
No, I could not use them for deer back then. Once here I averaged 5 to 6 a season with revolvers for 33 years. Now they reduced doe amounts so it will be less. I do not need a license here in WV as it is free after a certain age. Doe tags have been cut back. But we can shoot a doe in buck season, then must kill a buck before another doe. It gets confusing as to how many we can take. In years past from archery to rifle and BP I averaged 7 a season.
I had my first when 14, a model 27 in .357. I cast and loaded also. In 1956 I bought the Ruger .44 and had 5 model 29's over the years. We could use a revolver for game in Ohio but not for deer. I used the .44 mostly for wood chucks and the Mark I and II's for squirrels. I moved here to WV 33 years ago and we could use them for deer. The year I left, Ohio made it legal for deer. UAL closed the Cle hub so I worked at Dulles, put in 42 years at the airline. Been shooting and working revolvers for 68 years, I shot IHMSA for many years with A SBH and started deer with it. Back then production revolver high scores were 19 to 20 out of 40. Everyone used the wrong powder and primer. I studied and learned the .44 until I shot 40's and won Ohio state big bore and .22 the same year with a Ruger Mark. I missed the last ram with the SBH, just worn out, 79 out of 80. It only takes a jiggle to miss a 200 meter ram. My .22 did not have sight settings, brand new gun, missed 3 but hit all shoot off chickens at 100. I never did good with the 29's even though I shot 1/2" groups at 50 meters, I never tamed the grips. Hit 5 dead center and put the gun down for target setters and miss the next 5. I have the same trouble with a Bisley. My SBH Hunter Bisley went away in 2 weeks. Then I found the BFR's and no revolver on earth shoots like they do. Yes I actually shot a 2-1/2" group at 500 yards with the huge 45-70.
So in those years, when did the laws of physics change for you? The fact that energy transfer happens thru hydrostatic shock and the faster the bullet goes the more hydrostatic shock you get is basically a law. Doesnt change for those that believe in dwell time and other such nonsense. Just curious where that changed and is it possible those laws of physics changed just for you or do you think your powers of observation may be lacking?
Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
