Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire For Christians,non-Christians & Atheists

The term 'free will' is too simplistic. It tells us nothing about human behaviour or the decision making process.

We are what we are through a complex interaction of genetic makeup, life experiences, social and cultural conditions, sets of likes and dislikes developed over time, and it is from this foundation that convictions are formed and decisions are made.

Put simply, if you are not convinced that something is true you cannot just decide through act act of will that you are convinced that it is true.

Free will is just an excuse used by some when comes to matters of faith. Pascals Wager also fails for many reasons.

You forget that we can learn.

Pascal's Wager is a false choice. It's neither turning to God nor away, simply ducking the issue.

I didn't forget anything. Please read more carefully.

We can learn new things and accept or reject what we learn as we choose and thereby select our path, for better or worse.

What we accept or reject is based on the relationship between what we learn and our life experiences. You may be convinced that something is true while someone else is not. The other person simply does not see it as you do.

You no more invoke your conviction of truth through an act of 'free will' than the person who is not convinced. Conviction is not simply an act of 'free will,' it is a complex underlying process.

I find it difficult to believe in people that say they believe in Christ yet they have not given all their wealth away, and are not poor humble people living with nothing and spreading the word. Jesus Christ is very clear about what you have to do to be a Christian, and what the penalties are if you do not.
Only the poor need apply for a start. I don't think that nearly all Christian people really do believe in the bible, not really. The bible is very clear on all points.

I can therefor say, that I have never met anyone who was a true Christian except for a man I once saw, who lived rough, had nothing at all, and was shouting at passers-by from a park about how they were all going to hell. (Or some monks and priests that I have read about, having not met complete ascetics myself personally.)

That man was the only true Christian I have met. I can't see anyone on this thread for example, as having followed Jesus's instructions, and I am not sure I believe them when they say they are believers, or profess to believe that he the only "true way" or other similar language.

I have thoguht a good deal about this.

Have you thought about the greatest commandment and second greatest commandment and how they might affect your conclusions?

One can love god, and our neighbours as ourselves, but the gospels tell me there is more required than that. I don't believe there is a lite version of Christianity where we can disregard what Christ said in the gospels.

There are many scholars that conclude that 2 Peter was indeed written by Peter.

Written by Peter? ...... Yes.

Of course, that is not the crucial issue. One can continue to look in the dark for God but God is not found in the dark.

If one spends his life trying to convince himself that Jesus is not God, he make succeed in “spending” his life that way.

Yes, but note that if we get firm in our “followance” of the first two, then we will follow God, obey his commands and life life as He directs us in a manner more fruitful and pleasing to Him.

Remember, God does not need our work or service or money or anything from us.....to accomplish His will on earth. Seems that what He wants from us first and foremost,is that intimate relationship with Him. Our works at service then follow on as we please the God who loves us and who reveals Himself to us.

The Mary and Martha story has been a wonder for me. I have had strong “Martha” tendencies for most of my life.

Mary made the better choice.

I understand what you mean, I just can't see how one can pass over specific instructions Jesus said in the gospels. To give one example, about giving away everything and following him, such as what he told the rich man, or saying that it would be easier to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to enter heaven.
He says : "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth." And further: "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than to go with two hands into hell, where the fire never goes out."
And then from ( I think Mathew) "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."

I think this must be a point of concern for a Christian person. I am still considering this and what it means for someone who says they believe in a Christian God yet owns three houses.

Ok, I would not debate your view on this. Each is called to lead a different life and do different things.

I see allegory in much of what Jesus taught. For example, we would think that it is impossible for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle. Does that mean a rich man cannot enter heaven? Probably not. What it might indicate is that a man who trusts in his own wealth and not God’s mercy will not seek Him and therefore miss out.

The cutting off of the hand seems to be hyperbole for the purpose of indicating how serious sin is in God’s sight and a warning for us to correctly deal with the sin in our own lives.

The metaphor of cutting off your hand, is intended to as I understand it, to remove things from yourself that lead you to sin, in the context I brought it up it means to give away material wealth, leading into "blessed are the poor for yours is the kingdom of God.

To be honest, I do not have a view. I am trying to understand. there seems to be something important there, but I haven't got it straight yet completely. When someone says to me they believe in God, I am wondering - do you really?

I have thought about your statement a bit more. I agree with you in concept.

The Book of James is a book that challenges me to the point that I almost don’t want to read it. But I end up spending quite a lot of time there as I always seem to be convicted when I think about what it says and how it applies to my life.

I will read the Epistle of James now.

There was not a book of James in the original books, so believing in a book named after King James would be extremely challenging.

It appears that the Harvest must be getting near.
Matthew 13:24-30

I knew what he meant.

Really good thoughts....

The heart of the question may relate to the presence or absence of the Holy Spirit in one’s life.

Anyway, it has been my observation that a person that does not have the Spirit, worries little about whether or not he knows God or whether of not God knows him.

Concern or doubt about one’s salvation may be a good thing. It seems to indicate that God is working and a right and correct spiritual struggle is happening.

Spiritual growth is good, but with it come challenges.... challenges to one’s faith and challenges in life experiences ..... leads to a closer walk.

Told this before, but I had a guy come to me and ask me whether or not he was saved. He told me of his experiences and doubts. I asked him to get a sheet of paper and put two boxes on it..... one marked yes and the other marked no. I asked the question of him.... do you know God and does He know you? Pray about it and mark a box.

He went home and the next day he told me that he found it uncomfortable and in fact impossible to mark the “no” box. He marked the “yes” box. Settled that for him. He sought and gave God a chance to take him on another step in spiritual growth.

Baloney.