Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Alliant Black MZ surprised me today

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

The only reason you would want to go all the way through is if you are adding a vent liner to the plug. Cleaning is just removing carbon from the flash channel. You leave the flash hole alone.

Thanks Overkill. I suppose I can't use the drilled out breech plug with any other powder than 209 then right? It will be a BH209 breech plug only then, right, or can I use Pyrodex or Black powder with that same breech plug? I'm assuming the answer is no however. I am surprised that BH209 needs a different breech plug. Tells me it is not a black powder substitute .

that tells you it IS a black powder sub, only the best sub ever made. Subs are hard to ignite, with BH209 being the hardest.

What rifle you shooting again?

I cant imagine why you would think that. Is there a reason you think better ignition is gunna make other subs or real black powder worse?...Of course not with the exception of maybe 777 that will get more crud ring with a hotter ignition. TC plugs need no modification to work well with Blackhorn. Only the long Triumph style plug would benefit at all. Impact and Omega type plugs are fine. Keep them cleaned out of carbon but you should be doing that with any powder. If you had a very early Gen 1 Omega plug then yes. Adding a vent liner and a 5/32 flash channel would be a huge improvement.

The Impact and Omega type plugs with the dished/concave powder side need nothing to work.

Bigblock455 , I'm shooting a TC Encore. Overkill. I am not getting good ignition with BH209 but having no problem with anything else. This is why I am asking . If I am getting good ignition with the original size hole in the breech plug with Alliance/ 777, and Jim Shockeys stuff but not with BH209 it stands to reason if I bore out the back of the breech plug it may very well change the burn rate/ ignition rate on what is working well . It may make it burn faster too. I am not sure so I ask. I am hesitant to try to change something that might change the burn rate of a powder. Overkill says it is a hrs powder to ignite. I think he is right, I have had good results with BH 209 when it was 80 degrees but real bad results when it is cold outside fi i recall right. There is a reason the flash hol wis the size it is. . Bigblock gave me a link to BH209 and they said to drill it out so I will trust them, however, it seems the only shooters doing this is BH209 users. I am hesitant to try Alliant with the big flash hole cause it might raise the pressure or something.

I'd buy a new plug first.

Except for cleaning. Flash hole will clog too. Big size paperclip straightened out works pretty well. Not sure what size bit that works out to.

Greetings this morning to Shhotem from Moorseville NC. I am sure you dont have frost on the grass like we do this fine Mother's Day morning. As for a paper clip , I think that is a good idea. I never did that , I just cleaned out with a Q tip and if I could see the flash hole was not clogged i figured it was good. I will try to clean it better . You all have a nice day now.

You are not boring out anything. You are not removing metal. Carbon gets super hard in the channel. It dont matter what powder you are using. You should be cleaning the plug down to bare metal each time you clean it. Leaving any carbon in the channel is a heat sink and it sucks up oil or solvents which makes it even worse.

If you are not cleaning the flash channel with a 1/8" drill bit you are just yanking your chain. The info is right on Westerns website on how to clean the plug. Even CVA's plug cleaning tool is a drill bit. I shot probably 2 5lb jugs of it through Omega style plugs and never had a problem as long as you clean the plug occasionally. A guy in South Dakota has tested his in sub zero temps without a glitch....There is no big secret to making that plug reliable other than cleaning it the right way. You dont even need mag primers. A plain old win209 works fine.




One thing i would be careful of though. When cleaning the hole not the channel......Just use the smooth part of the torch cleaner. Dont scrub it with the rough part. That will only wear out your plug faster. When the HOLE reaches about .035-.036 its about worn out.

I will give it a try.

I agree with the above . I used 209 cleaner in mine and never had any problems after going to the musket nipple!. The musket cap is hotter I believe. Cheers NC

I use Triple-7 in my LHR Redemption.

This was my first modern muzzleloader. When I had trouble with carbon build-up, I learned that Ed's Red and patience seems to work the best. That is, after a day of shooting, I'll remove the breech plug, soak it in Ed's Red-- usually overnight and then everything comes clean with just a wipe.

Here's the recipe for Ed's Red:

http://frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

Shamen , I will try cleaning the barrel with " Ed's Red"!!

Blue Allant pellets and Black MZ loose work fine for me. I stopped using the two hottest primers and chose Winchester 209s for the task. The open point of a small safety pin keeps that firing hole open on your breechplug.
You may need to check it after every half-dozen shots, depending on powder charge. Maximum powder charges need more look & see's. 1/8th drill bit for the other-end.

Alliant Black Mz best deal around at Sportsman's Warehouse for $9 a pound... I ordered online as it was cheaper than driving the 120 miles round trip. I'll be picking up a couple more pounds either on the
4th or the 5th, as I have to go to Helena, MT and will be going past two Sportsman's Warehouse stores.

I finally located some at SW, grabbed two pounds which I will give a go come August. If it works good it will be in the field come October. Tough to beat at $9 a pound.

How about 209 cleaner in an old Spanish Derringer?

Actually it's $9.99 a pound, but after using it this last Friday, I'm hooked on hits accuracy with my Lyman Great Plains Rifle 1:60 .54 cal and it's almost zero fouling, and awesome cleanup.

I shot a total of 20 shots, without any barrel swabbing in between. My first patch was as you see it in the photo, second patch followup, then the third.

The 4 shot group off hand and the patches reflect how easy cleanup was. - I'm sold on Alliant Black MZ, and see no reason to change back to Goex which cost locally $23.95 a pound.

you'll see a reason to go back to goex when the supply of black mz runs out. American Pioneer makes it and they to are out of business.