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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,576 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,576 Likes: 8 |
800 posters pointin out the way things are, in reality.
One @sshole, gettin in the way, slowin sanity down, tryin ta make everbody else do it *his* way.
Explains everthing.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23 |
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
That shidt's photoshopped...
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
Crested Butte to Gothic to Schofield Pass. I love riding out here. I see lots of animals that need a good killin'.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,576 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,576 Likes: 8 |
Stops in the middle a the road, steada pullin off to the side at the space provided by those that actually pay taxes.
No surprise.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461 |
Lot better scenery than the gravel roads I rode today.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23 |
Colorado eh?
You ride there from Louisiana?
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
Colorado eh?
You ride there from Louisiana? I drove my truck. I even passed some cyclists without losing my schidt.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,263 |
I am not just speaking out of my ass. I have researched this. The larger the group the greater the time advantage to passing side by side cyclists, but the advantage applies to passing 3 side by side as opposed to strung out. This obviously assumes the motorist has to enter the oncoming lane to safely pass the cyclist. Where there's a useable shoulder or a lane wide enough for a motorist to safely share with the cyclist, then single file is best for the motorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NGdQDEkWCESure, except that in the instance with the riders two up, the motorist was way too damned close while following them. If two had tangled and gone down, the car didn't have enough room to avoid running over them. So car should have started a couple seconds further away. So now it's 18 seconds vs 14. Secondly, here in the US, I'm aware of no laws requiring the motor vehicle to move completely to the other lane. CA requires 3 feet between car and bike, other states require only 2. So there's more time made up not moving fully over into the other lane. Tons of places here where you don't even need to cross the centerline, and yet leave plenty of room to pass a group of single file cyclists. Thirdly, what does the motorist do when something appears suddenly on the left. (or from the right in the English video)? Quite possibly swerves to the right. Where there is now less room for error because the riders are three up. Again, riders potentially getting mangled. Oh sure the motorist may, or may not face civil penalties. I hope the families of those lost take comfort in that. Best remember there's a jury in that civil action. And those people on the jury? They're made up of folks just like the ones found in this thread. So good luck with that massive lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, if you're not riding your bicycle "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway", well here in CA, that's illegal. So, super dooper good luck with that lawsuit... And last, there's the emotional/psychological effect that three riders abreast, blocking the entire lane has, vs those same three riding single file. The former incites the kind of anger found here in the thread. The latter, not nearly as much. Especially if this single file group is entirely within the shoulder. Stay safe out there. Under California law, what does "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" mean when the lane isn't wide enough for a cyclist and motorist to safely share? I rarely ride in groups. When I do it's on lightly traveled roadways. We always single up for motorists. It doesn't save them time, but they feel better about it. As you have correctly identified, it serves the same purpose a pacifier does to a baby. It provides emotional comfort. "as close as practicable to the curb or right hand edge of the roadway" means the same thing when the lanes are narrow or when they're wide. There are quite reasonable exceptions of course, look at "cvc 21202" for the actual text. Oh, and this section only applies when the cyclists are going slower than the normal speed of traffic. I'm not sure about where you live, but there are a couple roads near where I'm working where cyclists can easily outpace and pass motor vehicles. Though when doing so, I typically did so on the right. CA (and other states) also legally require motorists to pass cyclists safely with some minimum distance between them. So to directly answer your question, when the lane is narrow (not the full roadway) then the motorist must move to some extent (partially or fully) into the oncoming lane. Hopefully nice and safely. Generally not an issue. Gets to be an issue when the entire width of the roadway is narrow, sightlines are limited, and half a dozen or more riders are doing 12 in a 35 mph zone and using the entire lane with half a dozen motorists stacked up behind them. In this instance, the cyclist are violating at least 3 laws: Obstructing traffic, failing to pull over when going slower than normal traffic and more than 5 vehicles are behind you, and not staying to the right of the roadway. Motorists in this instance don't want a "pacifier", they merely need the cyclists to obey the vehicle laws. End of story. Now, riding like this most certainly does not justify intentionally doing harm to the cyclists. However, while passing the above peleton, should a deer jump from the left side of the roadway and the driver instinctively swerve right, running over cyclists, I've got to put a significant portion of the blame on the group of cyclists. Were they single file, staying right - fault solely on the motorist. Regards, Scott As close to the right hand edge as practicable does not apply on a lane to narrow to share. The cyclist can be anywhere within that narrow lane. Define "too narrow to share"
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
Define "too narrow to share"
"Bike Path"
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
That is gorgeous and rugged country. That's not Schofield Pass proper though. Is it beyond SP out near the Devil's Punch Bowl? SP is right by Emerald Lake. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gothic,+CO+81224/@39.0129119,-107.0461789,738m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87406c119b5734a5:0x7fcffc56829fadd2!8m2!3d38.959158!4d-106.9897675
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 27,091 |
Your speaking of the pass for tourist.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,552 Likes: 23 |
Colorado eh?
You ride there from Louisiana? I drove my truck. I even passed some cyclists without losing my schidt. Do you ride in big circles or is someone following you?
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,263 |
Not following you. Are you disputing the fact that smaller vehicles reduce the amount of traffic congestion in metropolitan areas?
Yes. This is from personal experience, nothing theoretical about it: Riding singly vs driving singly, 6-8 people or more occupy the same area in a lane when on scooters/bicycles. Double up in cars, sure, but scooters can double up too then. Since cars are at the same time highly restricted in speed in metropolitan traffic, perhaps 20-30x OR MORE people can use two wheeled vehicles to go from point A to point B in the same amount of time. A commute that normally took 15 minutes in a car, could take an hour during commute periods. Yet it still took just a little bit more than 15 minutes on an electric scooter. I would be joined by dozens upon dozens of other riders at each red light. One thing: this was with a lane dedicated solely to two wheel transit, with a physical boundary between motorists and two wheelers. But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that were all those people that were on two wheels move to cars, then traffic would be quite significantly worse.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
Define "too narrow to share"
It is the language used in the law you previously cited. I don't know how CA defines it. If a lane is too narrow to accommodate a cyclist riding about 2 feet from the curb or fog line and a car passing at a safe distance, then it is generally considered too narrow to share.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
Your speaking of the pass for tourist. Ahhh! Gotcha. I didn't know there was another one. I will bike roads like that all day long. They scare the piss out of me in a truck, Jeep or SUV.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,461 |
You think Schofield Pass is bad you should check out Mt Blanca. There is another 4 wheel drive road that is absolutely nuts in terms of how steep it is, but I can't remember the name.
Red Cone maybe?
We did the Holy Cross trail probably 20 year ago now and that is some gorgeous country too.
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